Christ was a Seventh-day Adventist

[BobRyan]

Was Christ a Seventh-day Adventist - for all intents and purposes?

Quote:

Christ was a Seventh-day Adventist, to all intents and purposes. It was He who called Moses into the mount and gave him instruction for His people.... In awful grandeur Christ made known the law of Jehovah, giving, among other charges, this charge: “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” My brother, you have not placed upon the Sabbath the sanctity that is required by God. Irreverence has come in, and an example has been set that the Lord does not approve. He is not honored and glorified. {MM 49.4}

I recently (as in - the last two weeks) came across the evangelist and speaker Randy Skeete in a number of youtube videos.

Here is one from GYC where he explores the implications of the quote above.

[OzarkWoman]

Jesus would not have been part of any organized religion because that is man's doing.

[BobRyan]

Maybe I should have added this ...

Jesus in John 4 says to the Samaritan woman "you worship what you know not WE worship what we know - salvation is of the JEWS" - as a point of context for my question.

in Christ,

Bob

[Gibs]

Amen, Bob, there is no doubt about it. The truth not only sets us free, but those of it are in solid Unity with Him who is the Truth and the way.

Preachers and teachers of the truth are needed and to be found by all.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[BobRyan]

Thanks Gibbs.

While I agree with OzarkWoman that most denominations are indeed products of man in terms of what they choose to believe from the Bible. This is not always the case. For example God started the Jews off at Sinai with His own selection of priests, and services, and Bible, and religion etc. Thus Christ could identify with the Jews saying "WE know what we believe" when debating religious denominationalism with the Samaritan woman who wanted to get him on the subject of that specific dispute.

And if we are correct in saying that Christ raised up this specific denomination, gave us the end-time present-truth message of the 3 angels and even provided a prophet to make sure that we did not louse it up - then when that Prophet states that Christ Himself was for all intents and purposes teaching the same thing He is telling us to teach - then it could very well have a lot of meaning.

In any case - I just watched the sermon today and... wow!!

in Christ,

Bob

[Kountzer]

I've watched and listened to Randy Skeete a few times on 3ABN; that's the first place I saw him. Now he is shown on ADTV. I've seen him on youtube before. I plan to watch the video presented later.

[Windsor]

Jesus would not have been part of any organized religion because that is man's doing.

I always find that statement hilarious. The only alternative to organized religion is disorganized religion and that certainly is not the will of Christ. what part of the ancient Jewish religion spoken by God to Moses was disorganized? What part of the New Testament Christian church was disorganized?

[BobRyan]

God is incredibly purposeful, organized, deliberate in what He does (as the video points out).

Our Sabbath School lesson on creation this week emphasizes this point as well.

The point of the thread is to simply get people thinking about the specific teachings of Christ and compare them to the teachings that you find in the Adventist Church.

in Christ,

Bob

[OzarkWoman]

Originally Posted By: OzarkWoman

Jesus would not have been part of any organized religion because that is man's doing.

I always find that statement hilarious. The only alternative to organized religion is disorganized religion and that certainly is not the will of Christ. what part of the ancient Jewish religion spoken by God to Moses was disorganized? What part of the New Testament Christian church was disorganized?

And I always find your type of replys hillarious. The reason? Because you know what was meant and are trying to make a mockery of my answer. Actually, back in Jesus' day it was quite disorganized, at least from the perspective from the Bible. But then, I read my Bible and don't just depend on EGW for my answers.

BTW, to be so arrogant as to think that Jesus would be a part of this denomination is folly at best.

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: OzarkWoman

Jesus would not have been part of any organized religion because that is man's doing.

I always find that statement hilarious. The only alternative to organized religion is disorganized religion and that certainly is not the will of Christ. what part of the ancient Jewish religion spoken by God to Moses was disorganized? What part of the New Testament Christian church was disorganized?

Well, actually that is not the only alternative. One could also be a part of organized non-religion or disorganized non-religion also. Not that I necessarily agree with the idea that Jesus was not a part of (whatever that means) religion in whatever state it was in. He was most clearly a Jew, a defined ethnic and religious group. While imperfect for sure, to say the Jewish religion of Jesus' time lacked organization (i.e., structure, systems, rules, etc.) would be wrong. He was recognized as a part of Jewish life and called a Rabbi. And he most certainly had an association with the religious movement that still bears his name, Christianity, for we the church are the body of Christ. Hard to get past that. It is the essence of the incarnation - He is one of us, one with us, we are one of his and one with him, warts and all.

[cricket]

Colossians 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

[OzarkWoman]

I didn't say the Jewish religion. I was speaking about the Christian religion when it stated and continued.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

He was most clearly a Jew, a defined ethnic and religious group. While imperfect for sure, to say the Jewish religion of Jesus' time lacked organization (i.e., structure, systems, rules, etc.) would be wrong. He was recognized as a part of Jewish life and called a Rabbi. And he most certainly had an association with the religious movement that still bears his name, Christianity, for we the church are the body of Christ. Hard to get past that. It is the essence of the incarnation - He is one of us, one with us, we are one of his and one with him, warts and all.

Amen, Tom. I was trying to figure out how to say that nicely. Jesus was first a Jew. If the Jews hadn't rejected Him, there would not have been a need for a seperate Christian Church or an SDA denomination. Christ would probably not be a very good SDA. He ate meat and drank wine; and didn't cooperate very well with the church leaders of His day. That alone should be enough to get Him disfellowshipped (or at least prevent Him from holding any church office).

[JoeMo]

Whatever, Gerhard.

I wasn't trying to turn this into a theological debate about the origin of members of the Godhead. I'm only saying Jesus was not an SDA; which is the subject of this thread.

The New Year and the fiscal cliff sure does seem to bring the fiestiness out in people.

[Tom Wetmore]

... as I am only trying to say Jesus was no Jew.

If he was not Jewish, the pope isn't Catholic...

[BobRyan]

He was most clearly a Jew, a defined ethnic and religious group. While imperfect for sure, to say the Jewish religion of Jesus' time lacked organization (i.e., structure, systems, rules, etc.) would be wrong. He was recognized as a part of Jewish life and called a Rabbi. And he most certainly had an association with the religious movement that still bears his name, Christianity, for we the church are the body of Christ. Hard to get past that. It is the essence of the incarnation - He is one of us, one with us, we are one of his and one with him, warts and all.

[Tom Wetmore]

Oh great! Let's have a debate about whether the wine spoken of in Scripture was fermented... again.

Bottom line is that the evidence is lacking that it was pure unfermented grape juice and and so-called proof is very speculative and inconsistent with the descriptions of wine and its effects in Scripture. The degree to which was fermented might be a more rational consideration.

Even the wedding wine created out of water by Jesus, once tasted by the wedding host was described by him as "the good stuff", the kind served first until people were too drunk to taste/care about the poorer quality wine served later. The Greek word used by John in the account describing the effect of that wine had a singular unambiguous meaning of intoxication. Look it up if you don't believe me.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

Oh great! Let's have a debate about whether the wine spoken of in Scripture was fermented... again. The Greek word used by John in the account describing the effect of that wine had a singular unambiguous meaning of intoxication. Look it up if you don't believe me

.

-ing you more and more. I'm glad I read your post before I responded. I agree about Cana specifically and the word wine in general.

[whatisthis]

I've been thinking about the membership issue. Is it correct that Christ did not pay taxes because his position made him legally exempt? So, while he might qualify to be a Lutheran because He inspired that church with the message of grace, or a Baptist because He inspired both baptism and the issue of 7th Day Sabbath keeping, (which came to us from Baptist sources,) or He might have been considered to be in perfect tune with Wesley, the founder of Methodism and his contributions to the spiritual heritage of Seventh Day Adventists-- could Jesus be considered a member-- or should He be considered in a different category, perhaps? Could He be the Vine and we be the branches? It's such an honor to be laborers together in His field! Should we be worrying about titles for Him that the Bible doesn't mention? As for the vino, I hope we are all represented by pure fruit of the vine. Am I right that in ceremonial symbolism, like the symbolism used at the Passover Supper or the Last Supper, nothing fermented was allowed?

[Woody]

I've not followed this thread - But I have to wonder which of the Beliefs of the SDA Church Jesus is opposed to.

As far as I know :

Jesus believed in both the 7th day Sabbath and the Second Advent.

Thus - I would have to say that He is a Seventh day Adventist.

[Tom Wetmore]

You see, I also believe Jesus was the son of Mary and since Mary was a Jew, her son would also be a Jew. It was the mystery of the incarnation that human and divine DNA combined into one person. He was fully human and fully divine.

[OzarkWoman]

You see, I also believe Jesus was the son of Mary and since Mary was a Jew, her son would also be a Jew. It was the mystery of the incarnation that human and divine DNA combined into one person. He was fully human and fully divine.

[phkrause]

You see, I also believe Jesus was the son of Mary and since Mary was a Jew, her son would also be a Jew. It was the mystery of the incarnation that human and divine DNA combined into one person. He was fully human and fully divine.

Absolutely Tom, I agree 100%. And Jesus was A Jew by birth.

[Windsor]

Jesus is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah - the tribe from which the name Jew derived though it has later come to refer to any follower of the religion and anyone descended from Judah's father Jacob.

[skyblue888]

Amazing that this should even be an issue as to whether Jesus in His humanity was of Jewish descent.

"For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, adn the service of God, and the promises; whose are the fathers, and of whom, AS CONCERNING THE FLESH, CHRIST CAME, WHO IS OVER ALL, GOD BLESSED FOREVER. Amen." Rom.8:3-5.

"Concerning His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, who was made of the seed of David according to the flesh." Rom.1:3.

As to the subject of organization all of us should be aware that the present organization is not according to Gospel order. It may sound "heretical" to say that but it is the truth, not a private opinion.

Only those who have failed to study our history will think that there is nothing wrong with the present order of things.

Between 1888 and 1901 the Lord asked for a change, for an entirely new organization. In this new organization, we were to begin at the foundation (1 Cor.3:11) and to build upon a different principle, the principle of self-government in Christ by the Holy Spirit. The Lord had said, "I want the Holy Ghost to be King." Christ was to be the Head of every man. (1 Cor.11:3) He alone was to have the pre-eminence in all things in the church. (Col.1:18)

When the leaders met in 1901, for the first time they agreed to take the necessary reformatory steps to bring in a different order of things, to bring in Gospel order within our ranks. The first thing they agreed to at that conference was to eliminate the presidency. There was no elected president until the next conference in 1903 but in order to have that the 1901 reformatory steps had to be reversed and they were. Interestingly enough A.G. Daniells who was the chairman in 1901 assumed the presidency without the constitution a few months before the 1903 General Conference. This is all documented.

During all these years God had been put aside and the devisings of men were the order of the day. It got so bad that the Lord had to send the following testimonies:

"The high-handed power that has been developed, as though position has made men gods, makes me afraid, and ought to cause fear. It is a curse wherever and by whomsoever it is exercised. This lording it over God's heritage will create such a disgust of man's jurisdiction that a state of insubordination will result." T.M.361.

"Men have taken unfair advantage of those whom they supposed to be under their jurisdiction. They were determined to bring the individuals to their terms; they would rule or ruin. There will be no material change until a decided movement is made to bring in a different order of things." T.M.360

"Human inventions are made supreme. The holy principles that God has given are represented as the sacred fire, but common fire has been used in place of the sacred. Plans contrary to truth and righteousness are introduced in a subtle manner on the plea that this must be done, and that must be done, 'because it is for the advancement of the cause of God.' But it is the devising of men that leads to oppression, injustice, and wickedness." T.M.359,360.

Men seeking for pre-eminence in the church. Nothing new under the sun. The first one to seek for pre-eminence in the apostolic church was Diotrephes (3 John 9) and it led to the full-fledged papacy of the Dark Ages. It is the spirit of domination in the church, lording it over God's heritage.

Following in the track of the General Conference leaders the Lord declared that

"The spirit of domination is (was) extending to the presidents of our conferences." T.M.362.

"Rule, rule, has been their course of action." T.M.363.

"Humanity is hailed as God." T.M.365.

Hence, the Lord declared, "They are following in the track of Romanism." T.M.262.

That is why in 1888 the Lord sent a special testimony that presented the truth as it is in Jesus:

"Now, it has been Satan's determined purpose to eclipse the view of Jesus and lead men to look to man, and trust in man, and be educated to expect help from man. For years the church has been looking to man and expecting much from man, but not looking to Jesus, in whom our hopes of eternal life are centered. Therefore God gave to His servants a testimony that presented the truth as it is in Jesus, which is the third angel's message in clear, distinct lines." T.M.93.

"Many had lost sight of Jesus. They needed to have their eyes directed to His divine Person, to HIS MERITS, and to His changeless love for the human family... This is the message that God commanded to be given to the world. It is the third angel's message which is to be proclaimed with a loud voice and attended with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in large measure." T.M.92.

"The uplifted Savior is to appear in His efficacious work as the Lamb slain, sitting upon the Throne, to dispense the priceless covenant blessings, the benefits He died to purchase for every soul who would believe on Him... The EFFICACY of the BLOOD of Christ was to be presented to the people with freshness and power that their faith might lay hold upon ITS MERITS." T.M.92.

"Take hold by faith of the MERITS of Christ and the soul-cleansing blood will be applied." F.W.96.

In other words as we make it our life business to look to Jesus and to accept His merits which it is our privilege to claim, (T.M.93) the righteousness of Christ is imputed and imparted and it accomplishes everything as it is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. See F.W.65,66,27; T.M.92.

This is, indeed, the third angel's message in clear, distinct lines.

Is it not?

sky