How would you handle this outburst in church?

[7daysadventist]

I wasn't sure which area to post this topic. Feel free to move it to the most appropriate place.

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Some things we don't regularly talk about in church or even at this forum is mental illness.

Put yourself in this situation and then give comment how you would have handled things.

You are the adult Sabbath School teacher, you have chosen to share a personal life changing event at the tail end of the lesson. Everyone is listening with undivided attention to your every word. You relate an epiphany from The Lord. Someone from the back asks, "Do you believe it was The Lord speaking to you". You reply simply and sincerely, "Yes, yes I do". Then he asks, "Do you hear voices?". Laughter breaks out among almost everyone. You reply quite seriously, "No, I don't hear voices". Then the person says very loudly, "THIS IS NOT FUNNY!!!". You reply quickly and sternly, "No it is not". He then says, "I hear voices, I have struggled with schizophrenia". There is a deafening silence and awkward stares at the carpet by the class. How do you, as the leader, respond to him?

[monty]

As the leader you would not add to the uneasiness but address this! This individual has done a courageous thing, he has exposed himself to the class. You could ask him how long he has suffered from schizophrenia, if the medication he takes is helping him. Pehaps most helpful would not to treat what this person has said as an "outburst" which I don't think it was. Make him feel accepted and part of the group. After all isn't this what church and SS class supposed to be about? By the way your description of "outburst" is not a characteristic symptom of schizophrenia. It is interesting how Jesus treated the two "demoniacs" who by there "outbursts" were terrorizing the people in the area they lived in.

[JoeMo]

I gotta go with Monty on this. Part of our gospel commission is to heal the sick. There are many ways you could have handled it; but characterizing this incident as an outburst" gives me the impression that it might have ended badly. Just for example, you could have thanked him for his openness; and asked if he would like prayer. If he is amenable, you could step aside and ask him if he is comfortable telling you more; so your prayers could be more specific. If he was open for prayer or if this was a cry for help, those people missed out on a great opportunity to win a soul for Christ and maybe witness a miracle! He may not always do them; but God performs more healing miracles than we acknowledge.

[Woody]

Last Sabbath the preacher was in the middle of his sermon when all of a sudden some oddly dressed man in tatters - walked up to the pulpit ... he interrupted the preacher and said he wanted to say something. The preacher stood back and let him speak. It was obviously a shock to him. But the man went on and on about wanting help in his business adventure. I suppose one might categorize it as some kind of personal ministry in some form or fashion.

But I was surprised at the patience of the preacher. And it was only a few minutes of interruption. No biggie I thought afterwards. Just kinda distracted my thought process.

Is this what some of you are suggesting be done?

[cricket]

Sounds to me like the outburst came from the people in class who broke out in laughter. Though the person who is struggling with hearing voices clearly needs help (from mental health professionals as well as personal prayer and friendship from followers of Christ), the more pressing issue may just be educating the other class members on appropriate behavior.

~My own two cents.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

1) Totally inappropriate to question the individual about his illness in the presence of the rest of the class.

2) Redirection back to the topic of the class should have been done.

3) A true schizophrenic seldom realizes that no one else can hear the voices or murmurings that he can.

4) It isn't helpful to a mentally ill person for the rest of a group to "adjust" their behavior to accomodate his. This does not assist in learning appropriate behavior.

[7daysadventist]

What would your next words be to the brave yet troubled soul that has spoken up?

[Woody]

"appropriateness" is in the eye of the beholder

[OzarkWoman]

Sounds to me like the outburst came from the people in class who broke out in laughter. Though the person who is struggling with hearing voices clearly needs help (from mental health professionals as well as personal prayer and friendship from followers of Christ), the more pressing issue may just be educating the other class members on appropriate behavior.

~My own two cents.

BINGO!! But you know, those holier than thou Christians are a pain in the you know what.

[JoeMo]

Pam,

Good points ...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

What would your next words be to the brave yet troubled soul that has spoken up?

First, the person was not "brave." It sounds more like he/she was .... well, I'm not going to get into that... not worth the effort to explain.

The whole thing could have been turned into a discussion on "how does one *hear* God speak," rather than get into an unproductive exchange with an indignant person which put the entire class ill-at-ease.

[7daysadventist]

Strangely I don't get notified when there are replies and when I check back, I failed to go to page 2 until now.

Thank you for that reply Pam. I agree that a separate thread would be appropriate if desired to continue on the subject of "how does one *hear* God speak". Let me know if that gets started and I will chime in.

Now that I think more about this occasional visitor, I am not so sure that his speaking up is truly requiring courage on his part. He is usually rude and interruptive. His comments are 99% quoting scripture which is not a bad thing in itself. But that 1%...

Anyways, the SS leader handled things quite professionally and respectfully giving him immediate full attention by politely saying, "In the future, when you hear these voices, try to determine and separate the good from the bad and try to heed only the good. God only wants good for us".

After SS, the leader had a brief one on one with him.

[Restin]

The topic of mental illness relating to SDA has always been a big issue with me and I speak up whenever I can. I had a major breakdown, did get a lot of help both thru prayer and treatment.

I found, to my great chagrin, that the Adventist world views the topic one way in church, and another way "underground." This duality is seen only if you or family become involved directly by being admitted to a psychiatric facility. Adventist-runned hospitals have state-of-the-art psychiatric floors.

Meanwhile at the church, ministers denounce psychiatry wholesale as the work of the devil, and still maintain the antiquated assumption that any mental illness is just the result of disobedience to God, where all you have to do is confess and pray to be healed.

Yet, it's just fine to go to a surgeon if you have a heart attack, and take his advice and medicine. The heart attack is assumed to be physical, but the mental problem is assumed to be pure demonic, only expelled by prayers. Well, we all know that all illness and misery was/is caused by Satan. He is responsible for viruses, germs, and all malfunctions of the body. Satan is responsible for mental malfunctions, too, but most SDA miss the boat right at this point by not accepting that advanced study has gone far in seeing HOW Satan does his twisted workings in a human mind. Adventists accept sientific advances in physical illness, but not in mental illness.

In my experience and opinion, this SDA "dual personality" the church has about physical vs. mental, sorely needs to change.

[7daysadventist]

^ your post reminds me of my Adventist boarding school days of the 70's. The counselor advised the youth against becoming a psychologist because that is the work of the devil.

[aldona]

The topic of mental illness relating to SDA has always been a big issue with me and I speak up whenever I can. I had a major breakdown, did get a lot of help both thru prayer and treatment.

I found, to my great chagrin, that the Adventist world views the topic one way in church, and another way "underground." This duality is seen only if you or family become involved directly by being admitted to a psychiatric facility. Adventist-runned hospitals have state-of-the-art psychiatric floors.

Meanwhile at the church, ministers denounce psychiatry wholesale as the work of the devil, and still maintain the antiquated assumption that any mental illness is just the result of disobedience to God, where all you have to do is confess and pray to be healed.

Yet, it's just fine to go to a surgeon if you have a heart attack, and take his advice and medicine. The heart attack is assumed to be physical, but the mental problem is assumed to be pure demonic, only expelled by prayers. Well, we all know that all illness and misery was/is caused by Satan. He is responsible for viruses, germs, and all malfunctions of the body. Satan is responsible for mental malfunctions, too, but most SDA miss the boat right at this point by not accepting that advanced study has gone far in seeing HOW Satan does his twisted workings in a human mind. Adventists accept sientific advances in physical illness, but not in mental illness.

In my experience and opinion, this SDA "dual personality" the church has about physical vs. mental, sorely needs to change.

amen!

AJ

[Stan]

Restin, some Pastors are Pastors because they did not have the capacity to enter Medical School.

Just sayin' that's all.

[Guest]

the more pressing issue may just be educating the other class members on appropriate behavior.

They had no way of knowing he was serious at first. Or that he was hearing voices. Their response was normal in light of that fact, I think. They quit laughing as soon as he said he was serious.

[cricket]

Originally Posted By: cricket

the more pressing issue may just be educating the other class members on appropriate behavior.

They had no way of knowing he was serious at first. Or that he was hearing voices. Their response was normal in light of that fact, I think. They quit laughing as soon as he said he was serious.

Normal, probably. There is a problem with normal though--normal can be sinful, rude and self-centered. Was this the first time these people met the one with schizophrenia? Had they never taken the time to befriend him before this?

Appropriate behavior is not the same thing as normal behavior.

[Gregory Matthews]

A very short response:

I was preaching in my congregation when a woman stood up and challenged me. She had never attended my church. I had never seen her before. I had never communicated with her in any way.

I simply called her by name, suggested that she had made an interesting point and we should talk more about it privately.

Her mouth fell open in astonishment at my calling her by name. When I finished my sermon, she departed and I never saw her again.

[cricket]

Cool response.

[Guest]

Gregory - well done.

i was thinking that was the answer as well - to ask to talk to them privately,,,,, but it can be so hard with mental illness

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Meanwhile at the church, ministers denounce psychiatry wholesale as the work of the devil, and still maintain the antiquated assumption that any mental illness is just the result of disobedience to God, where all you have to do is confess and pray to be healed.

Not as I see the SDA Church today.