OzarkWoman Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I have had a few people tell me recently that to believe in the Trinity is to believe in the anti-Christ because it comes from the Catholics. So, what about this and why was it that even Ellen White did not believe in the Trinity in her very early years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted January 10, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 10, 2013 OW, there is a wonderful 5-part series on the Holy Spirit by David Asscherick that addresses that: The Unknown God- Part 1 Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 While the Trinity is well-established and well-accepted throughout most of Christendom today, 130 years ago was a different matter. Aryan beliefs (that the Son of Man is not Deity) still held sway over significant sections of Protestantism. Many Adventists believed the Aryan viewpoint because the churches they came from held such beliefs. Through prayerful study, though, doctrinal stance changed - in the Adventist church and in other Protestant denominations. Just because the Catholics hold a certain belief doesn't mean it is automatically antichrist to agree. Roman Catholics hold many beliefs which are true and Scriptural...sadly, this is what enables the Papal system to deceive the unwary, low-information Christian. Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 OZARKWOMAN the trinity is in the bible all 3 were there at creation all 3 were there at JESUS baptism JESUS gave us the HOLY SPIRIT as a comforter it is the HOLY SPIRIT guides us to truth so the trinity is biblical dgrimm60 That is what I believe and always have. The question was about how others came about not believing in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 Just because the Catholics hold a certain belief doesn't mean it is automatically antichrist to agree. Roman Catholics hold many beliefs which are true and Scriptural...sadly, this is what enables the Papal system to deceive the unwary, low-information Christian. I totally agree with you and thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Ellen White never sucumbed to being a trinitarian although brought up in Methodism. The Trinity doctrine came in starting about 1950 after all the old men had finally all died off. The Deity of Christ was the Father in Him, He was not another God. Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? The Holy Spirit is what God is, He is Spirit, that is how He was in Christ. Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. His name is Yahweh King of Israel. 2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. The only God that could be in Christ is Yahweh King of Israel! I have a thesis on this very thing and have posted it here in the past, and may have to do it again, as Trinitarianism is a false doctrine. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Interesting, because the verses you've quoted above sure seem to me like there is one God who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 The Roman Catholics confessionally as well as practically DO NOT BELIEVE OR WORSHIP God the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit or 'the Trinity'. If one “cannot serve / worship God and Mammon” one cannot serve / worship God and Mary or God and the pope or God and the saints --- all no-gods the Roman Catholics serve and worship. They deify – worship – a wafer and call it Jesus’ actual body; their priests trans-substantiate wine into Jesus’ own, alive, blood, and pray to it, fearing it with the fear of veneration and worship. The greatest ‘Christian Church’ on earth, the Catholics – who include all ‘Catholics’, make no mistake – are NOT Christians, but idolators of more “weak and beggarly no-gods” all the pagans and heathen of the past and present, together, ever divined! It is a false and baseless accusation against the True Faith of Jesus Christ that to believe Him and in His Father and in the Spirit of Christ ONLY, is to follow after the beast and devil. Catholics may be the vast majority, but the vast majority of the worshippers of false gods ---not of the Christians though the smallest of minorities on earth. God gave THEM to reign with Christ in the Kingdom of God on thrones in purity of Worship. Not one of them is not a Protestant, lived he in the times of the patriarch or prophets or apostles or reformers or relativists. I can see you know very little about the Catholic religion. I was raised Catholic and YES, they most certainly do and did worship the Trinity. The rest is pur BS, for the most part, so I won't even reply to it, except to say....Catholics are Christians and you sound like the people who hate Mormons. Your hate has deluded your facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kevin H Posted January 11, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 11, 2013 Ellen White never sucumbed to being a trinitarian although brought up in Methodism. The Trinity doctrine came in starting about 1950 after all the old men had finally all died off. I am sorry Gibs, but in the White Estate Vault I've read documents from conservative Adventists from the early 1900s complaining that the Trinity doctrine came in in the 1890s and accusing W. W. Prescott and Willie White of sneeking it into Mrs. White's writings and trying to pass it off as her teaching it. In the early 1900s Elder Andreasen who heard the above claims came to visit Mrs. White in person to ask her if she was a trinitarian and if she wrote the passages or if someone was trying to sneek in the doctrine of the trinity by putting in the passages in her writings. She greeted him, spent time studying with him, had the originals of the controverted writings in her own handwriting to show him and he came to visit her as an anti-trinitarian with views similar to the views you hold and after discussing the topic with Mrs. White herself, he left a strong and committed trinitarian. Also, Elder Spicer's father was a Seventh-day Adventist minister who left the ministry because he was a trinitarian. As a lay member he was allowed to believe the trinity, but there was pressure for the ministers to preach against the trinity. Elder Spicer, who became General Conference President in 1923, was able to do what his father was not able to do, stay in the professional work as a pastor even though he was a trinitarian. All of this was before 1950. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 As I see it, after his resurrection, Jesus received the same type of body that those humans who are chosen will receive in the next life, all clones, likely. Instead of Adam ruling the New Earth, though, Jesus will. Spirit is the unseen force that YHVH uses to connect him to the universe. Messengers (Angels) from the Kingdoms of Light and of Darkness are able to access Spirit and use it to influence human thought, whether for good or for evil. When Jesus or a prophet requested someone to be healed, YHVH responded to their request by using Spirit to repair DNA and regenerate damaged human tissue. YHVH is not made of flesh and blood as we are. Some can use the term Trinity, but that tends to imply equality in rulership. YHVH and the Son of Man each have their own unique function in the universe, and cannot really be classified as equals except in the context of their spiritual connection. ("I and the Father are One.") While on Earth, Jesus spoke the words of YHVH to teach humans about the Kingdom of Light. Spirit, then, is not some being, but an invisible force used to create, heal, and sustain life, among other things. Spirit is responsible for recording and storing our life's record, all of our memories, that is. Someday, all of the garbage in our memories will be deleted, leaving only a core of good thoughts and good deeds to define ourselves. As Jesus indicated, YHVH is on a long journey, so we can't really expect to see him until he arrives in the future to set everything right and reward those who have been loyal to him, even to death. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 11, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 11, 2013 Ellen White never sucumbed to being a trinitarian although brought up in Methodism. The Trinity doctrine came in starting about 1950 after all the old men had finally all died off. The Deity of Christ was the Father in Him, He was not another God. Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? The Holy Spirit is what God is, He is Spirit, that is how He was in Christ. Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. His name is Yahweh King of Israel. 2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. The only God that could be in Christ is Yahweh King of Israel! I have a thesis on this very thing and have posted it here in the past, and may have to do it again, as Trinitarianism is a false doctrine. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Totally erroneous, Gibs! Here's what EGW says: 1–3 (Prov. 8:22–27; Rom. 9:5; Phil. 2:6; Col. 1:15–17; Heb. 1:8). The Eternity of Christ.—If Christ made all things, He existed before all things. The words spoken in regard to this are so decisive that no one need be left in doubt. Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore. The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. RH April 5, 1906. The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, Volume 5. 1980 (F. D. Nichol, Ed.) (1126). Review and Herald Publishing Association. In Him was life, original, unborrowed, underived. (ST Feb. 13, 1912). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 No, No Way. Christ was not another God but was THE one and only God with us. Yes He was the Father with us, for that is who He is yet in Him even today. The Father brought Him forth from Himself before anything. Then He was the one to do the total creation hosts and all. Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. That is why Isaiah stated this, Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Notice "LORD of Hosts" above and now notice ""his" redeemer". Whose Redeemer? The Father's, "LORD King of Israel"! He was of the same substance as the Father, the Father has extended Himself, to be, His and our Redeemer! "The Jews had never before heard such words from human lips, and a convicting influence attended them; for it seemed that divinity flashed through humanity as Jesus said, "I and my Father are one." The words of Christ were full of deep meaning as he put forth the claim that he and the Father were of one substance, possessing the same attributes."--The Signs of the Times, Nov. 27, 1893, p. 54. {7ABC 437.3} He possesed all the power and all of the Father, He too being the preexistent eternal one. Then in the fullness of time, Heaven was emptied of Him and He came in the Babe of Mary known as that Holy Thing in Her. Now He became the son of God and the son of fallen man and the fullness of God the Father in Him. But in Him was the fullness of the Godhead! Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all There is but one God, there is not three no way shape or form! Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. 2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. "GOD" Yes the Father! Who else is left to be in Him? If I have any more comebacks on this I will have to post my thesis on this, but most here have read it I am sure. May you all be blessed to know Him. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Gibs, are a pastor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 No OzarkWoman, not by ordination of men or any church system. I am only one of His Witnesses, not a J. W. however. Just one He calls for here, Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. sa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. I have given messages in our home church. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 I did not expect an answer like this ... but it makes sense to me now, all things considered. I saw them with my own eyes ... the bleeding Christs in glass sarcophagi, crucified on high walls, hung around ladies and men's necks. I've read with my own eyes, not Christ's blood on the cross, but in eucharist, atones for sins. I see idolatry right here ... writing ... 'eucharist' underlined RED ---Roman Catholic idolatry! Jesus Christ OR, the mighty majority; the few - the VERY few - "two or three", OR, the many. Who anathematizes whom? Watch them pass then kiss his toes, the god, Peter's with tender reverence! Shoes laid before blue mosque, or sins before father priest's, whose are forgiven? If the pope is Christ’s, must Mohammed be. But you are looking for pluralism in the strangest of places! In the stronghold of the Sabbath’s keepers! Just where you should be careful men of the world with enticing words beguile you of your Reward, Jesus Christ the Substance of your Sabbaths’-Feast supposed to be! You didn't expect it because you didn't expect that one of us were raised Catholic and would call you on it is all. I am not looking for anything. I really have no idea makes you think that at all, but I guess it figures since you know nothing about the Catholic religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 11, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 11, 2013 No, No Way. Christ was not another God but was THE one and only God with us. Yes He was the Father with us, for that is who He is yet in Him even today. The Father brought Him forth from Himself before anything. Then He was the one to do the total creation hosts and all. No, no way? If Jesus was not a DISTINCT person from the Father as EGW says in this quote - "The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father," (RH April 5, 1906} to whom was He praying to whenever He prayed? to Himself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Who Art Thou? Jesus Was asked Here He was appearing as a man claiming to be God. Of a certainty all Christians should believe Yahshua/Jesus is THE only WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE. But not all as when He was here as one of us many did not know who He was. He was asked “Who Art Thou”. This time we will look at the scriptures that reveal Who He is, who the Father is and who the Holy Spirit is. I don't think it is hard to clear up this issue. The Father, 1, the Son, 2, Holy Spirit, 3, are one in Truth. The Son was brought out of Himself, the Father before anything and the Father sent Him the Son to do all the creation, all of the hosts and everything. His name though was LORD, YHWH, of Hosts before Bethlehem. Please read on to see if these statements are true that I've stated.- Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. (Then --) Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. (Notice LORD of hosts above which is also YHWH)(Notice also “beside me there is no God”. They are one and will be brought out in later verses.)(Also who is the "I" that stated "I am the first, and I am the last".)( Notice also "His" Redeemer! ) This was before anything, long before Bethlehem! Is not that statement or proclamation a simultaneous one? Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. (We are to be his witnesses as to who He is) All the Gods there are is brought out in Isa 44:6 above " and notice "the first and the last" in the following verse. Re 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. - - Now I ask you, how many firsts can you have? Just one, it means before any other, and you know that is Jesus speaking. Was He before the Father? Folks there is just one way it can be true, that He and the Father are TRULY one! OK now let's see who the Holy Spirit is. - - Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Since we now know the Father and the Son are God and the above verse Jesus tells us that He and the Father are Spirit.. People all get it wrong with our Lord's statement here - - Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one. Truly yes Truly one substance. Spirit beings are real, we are not made to see them but we are surrounded by them. Now another verse - - 2Co 5:19 To wit, that God ( the Father ) was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. ( Who else would be left but the Father to be in Him? ) Christ then is the Father extended to us to be our redeemer and one of us. Then the Lord's statement to Philip - - Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? You should see that Jesus the son has revealed who He and the Father are Mt 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. To sum it up He has told us He and the Father ARE ONE and that they are Spirit, The Holy Spirit. He came to us in the form of His Son and now abides in us by Spirit. He is not limited that He can not be what He needs to be for the salvation of man and that plan was laid before anything. And so hence, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one and so 1 Jo 5:7 is correct, - - 1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. When He Jesus has finished all He is brought fourth out of the Father to do, as He says, I was sent, - - Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. Then when it is finished. - - 1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. ( Yet reigning ) 1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. ( Only the Father is excepted ) 1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. The Son then becomes subject to the Father and so now the Father is as He was before bringing forth an equal from Himself to take care of the rebellion, He knew would happen. Also now the Son is just that, His Son the Prince and also at the same time one of us. He no longer is the ruling Deity He had been to accomplish the Redemption plan. The Father gave of Himself and dwelt in the Body prepared Him and so knows us as He was one of us, for remember the Father was in Christ. 2 Cor 5:19 above. The Body prepared verse is, - - Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. A body was prepared that He would have blood to shed as the blood of animals etc. could not suffice. Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: Notice this verse very carefully, Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. We sing “How Great Thou Art” in much awe realizing this Blessings to all who have read this little essay and understand and are edified. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 If Jesus was not full deity, then why does John 1:1, 2 say He is? This same One who was God, was WITH God, is the same One found in verse 14 being made flesh (carnal flesh) to tabernacle among us. Likewise, Hebrews 1 clearly attributes Christ the province of Creator, and equal with the Father. Likewise, the dialogue in Colossians 1:13-18 Is clear - the Father rescued us and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son (Jesus)... ...in who we have forgiveness (vs 14) ...who is the image of the invisible God (vs 15) ...by whom all things were created (vs 16) ...by whom all things hold together (vs 17) ...who is also the head of the church. (vs 18) Christ Himself made the claim of deity with the Father in His prayer in John 17:5, indicating Christ is self-existant - He lived as God before His Incarnation. There is more...but my time this evening is limited... Christ is plainly taught as being as much God as is the Father. The Trinity is a teaching which is plainly there, but difficult to get one's mind conceptually wrapped around the subject. Blessings! Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Fully God - and fully man. Yet His deity was veiled - hidden from our eyes and He was dependent on his father "by choice" at every step. This is why the first temptation in Matt 4 is a "real" one and was very "Severe" after 40 days of fasting. It was not a for-plastic fluff. It was nearly impossible to resist for one who had the power to do exactly what he was being tempted to do. For example - Satan never "tempts" you and I to "fly to the south pole by flapping our arms" -- because we simply can't do it. It would not be a temptation to refuse to do what you cannot do in the first place. Satan seems to have figured that one out by the time of Genesis 3 if not long before that. Very early in the game. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Ted, there is no Trinity, you didn't take time to read my thesis well at all. Yes Jesus was Deity, the Father was in Him, He and the Father are one. Jesus could only claim to be the first only if His Deity was the Father in Him. You see Jesus wasn't the first before the Father, it's the other way around! There was a time in the way distant past, like Jesus stated, Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Is that too simple to grasp" Trinitarianism is a false teaching since the days of the Apostles. Ask any Messianic Jew and he will tell you, there is but one God and worship Him only. To worship the son is to worship the Father and to worship the Father is to worship the Son. The Holy Spirit is what God is, so we are never told to worship the Holy Spirit. Fathom out the "Shema" ( proclamation ) correctly and you have the case solved, De 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Waite Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 OZARKWOMAN the trinity is in the bible all 3 were there at creation all 3 were there at JESUS baptism JESUS gave us the HOLY SPIRIT as a comforter it is the HOLY SPIRIT guides us to truth so the trinity is biblical dgrimm60 Is Jesus Christ the true and faithful witness? And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; Revelation 3:14 Who did Jesus Christ tell us to worship? "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth." John 4:23-24. Did Jesus Christ instruct us to worship His Father (one person) and a unity of three co-eternal persons? Did Jesus Christ ever worship any other person than his Father? Did Jesus Christ teach us to worship the HOLY SPIRIT? Who did Jesus say is the "only true God"? His Father? or a "unity of three co-eternal persons"? See John 17:3 Did Jesus Christ who is God (Hebrews 1:9) have a God who He worships? See John 20:17, Revelation 3:12, Does the Father of Jesus Christ (who is the only true God) have a god who he worships? The doctrine of Jesus Christ - where does it come from? The only true God (John 17:3) or a unity of three co-eternal persons? See John 7:16 If a person brings to me something other than the "doctrine of Christ", what should I do? See 2 John 9 Quote grw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 I have to wonder why it is that some have deemed it necessary to teach me about the Trinity. I already believe in the Trinity and don't need lessons about it. All I asked was why some people don't believe it it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Waite Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 I have to wonder why it is that some have deemed it necessary to teach me about the Trinity. I already believe in the Trinity and don't need lessons about it. All I asked was why some people don't believe it it. Do you believe in the Roman Catholic teaching regarding the trinity? of the teaching of the Seventh-day Adventist Church as to what they call the trinity? The Seventh-day Adventist Church teaches that God did NOT have an only begotten Son, but rather teach that there have always been three gods (GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON, AND GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT) and they are one "god" because they are united or are a unity and that Jesus Christ is NOT the literal "only begotten son", but he plays the "role" as the Son of God the Father. "I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also]. 1 John 2:21-23 If one teaches that Jesus Christ is NOT the literal son of God the Father, but rather takes the role of a son is NOT this the same as denying that there is a real Father and a real Son or denying the Father and the Son? Quote grw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators LynnDel Posted January 12, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 12, 2013 Our understanding of a literal son is that he has a father and a mother. What do you mean about Jesus being a "literal son?" Quote LD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon1 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 What do you mean about Jesus being a "literal son?" One who was brought forth in the days of eternity, as described in Proverbs 8:22-30 and Micah 5:2. And as spoken on the second page of Patriarchs & Prophets. "And the Son of God declares concerning Himself:" Pr. 8:22-30 quoted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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