Moderators lazarus Posted January 11, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 11, 2013 Traditionally, SDA's taught that the identifying characteristics of Gods people before Jesus returns are keeping the 10 Commandments and the manifestation of the Spirit of Prophesy through the writings of EGW (rev 14:12). Jesus says, By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:35. Why isn't love an identifying characteristic? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I believe LOVE is and that seems to be the old fashion SDA stuff. Anyone with a brain knows that one would have to have love to be considered following Jesus. Personally, for me, I am still not sure that EGW was a prophetess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx4mercy Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Many Christians from different denominations will love one another, but they won't be obeying the 4th commandment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 12, 2013 Members Share Posted January 12, 2013 I have to believe that "love" is part of the package! Because if we keep the 10 Commandments we will have love towards one another. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 So far, traditional answers.....dig a little deeper!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Traditionally this is what is taught, because traditionally this is what sets the denomination apart from other denominations. If there were no distinguishing differences, there would be no need for a separate denomination. The verse from Revelation, cited above, does not mention the Spirit of Prophecy, but keeping the faith of Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 ........waiting........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 CoAspen, you answer it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted January 13, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 13, 2013 Revelation 19:10 says that the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy. And the faith of Jesus is the faith Jesus lived by, and was victorious through. Jesus is the author of our faith or we will have no faith at all. there is a scripture that talks about if they speak not according to the law and the testimony. well the testimony was those words that are inspired by the Holy Spirit, whether out of the mouth of Jesus, or in prophecies, or the psalms, which were songs and music or words of wisdom and love and truth needed at the time. the law is not hard to get, it is the coded written standard of Love to God and Man. the rest of that texts says that there is no light in them. so those who have light, are those who have the characteristics of Gods people , and they are not just SDA's. someone told me they would not die for the Sabbath, but they would die for Christ. Until the experience of the Sabbath becomes an experience of union and communion with Christ why would we die for it. God has been gathering, and teaching, and walking with his people, and helping them, teaching them, and sending messages of love to them through prophets and servants of God since the beginning. God wants to send a message through you to the world, and he will if you are willing to submit to his will, his discipline, his teaching, and rely on his power. The message of his love is not better received today, no more welcome then it ever has been, by those who refuse to believe. but it is welcome by those who will. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Why isn't love an identifying characteristic? No greater love than giving ones life for another..... If you have done it unto the least of these you have done it unto me.... ....ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another..... The quotes can go and on...all through out the Bible....starting in Genesis, but yet the the emphasis is always the law and SOP. So why are we as a church not identifying or identified by our love for others? We can't assume it just happens or is part of some belief that everyone knows. The question is really about what is an 'identifying characteristic' and how do we express that characteristic. Laz has asked a very good question and I'm not sure we have an answer...as of yet. So Laz...where are you going with this question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 An identifying characteristic is a characteristic that sets the denomination apart from other denominations. Seventh-day Adventists express that "identifying" characteristic in keeping the Sabbath (10 Commandments), looking to Christ's second coming and following the Spirit of Prophecy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 So, am I correct in thinking that you don't see 'love for others' as a characteristic for the SDA .org? If not, then why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 No, of course love is characteristic. As are many, many, other qualities and characteristics. However, the "identifying" characteristics--those that make the Seventh-day Adventist organization unique--are the ones the Seventh-day Adventist church (organization) promulgates first and foremost. These are the qualities that help to identify God's people before Jesus returns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted January 13, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 13, 2013 love is something that we may be deceived about. we not be able to discern or know if it is the true love of heaven. God has given the Holy Spirit and the scripture to reveal his love so we can know true love from all the other false love. our human love is not pure enough and strong enough, and true enough to see us through the trials of life, God's love can be reproduced in us so we can truly love and truly represent Jesus, in kindness, submission to God's will, in faith, and patience, in hope, and self control. every teaching is connected to His love for us to empower us, to be equip us, cleanse us, renew us, protect us so we may do God's will. there are so many ways to talk about God's love, Because he loved us, everything has been given and everything has been done, and everything we need will be provided. it is too vast. deb Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted January 13, 2013 Author Moderators Share Posted January 13, 2013 Will there be people who are "keeping" the forth commandment and not showing love? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted January 13, 2013 Author Moderators Share Posted January 13, 2013 ....but Jesus said, this is how you will know who my disciples are. Love among the body of believers is HOW you will know who is followers are. Is Jesus returning for an organization or a people? Can one be a Seventh-day Adventist and NOT a disciple. Can one be a Catholic and be a disciple? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 13, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 13, 2013 I am reading Brennan Manning's memoir, All is Grace. Some thing occurred to me that the identifying characteristic, themark is the mark of grace. That is what Jesus was talking about. Love is the mark of grace. It is the mark of the saints. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I was reading 1 John 5 - it says that Love for God and love for each other is the mark of the saints - and that this is shown by keeping God's commandments. Here again - I am not posting this with the idea that the post cannot be deleted. It is just here for those willing to read it. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 My answers have been in response to the question of why the identifying characteristics as taught by the Seventh-day Adventist church are keeping the commandments and having the spirit of prophecy. Jesus has a different description, as you've noted, as to how His disciples can be known. Jesus is not returning for an organization or other group of people. He is returning for individuals. Most assuredly one can be a Seventh-day Adventist and not be a disciple. Likewise (or contrariwise), one can be a Catholic and be a disciple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted January 13, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 13, 2013 I believe that both will be true, that close to the time of Christ's return His people will, like the Scripture notes, both keep the commandments of God and have the spirit of prophecy in their midst. They will also be known by their love and have the faith of Jesus. It's easy for us mortals to make that into a checklist, but once we do that it becomes evident as to how impossible it is for us to accomplish. The key is not to focus on the performance of ourselves or others. Or only hope is in the merits of Christ and the work that the Author and Finisher (Perfecter) of our faith does in us. It will be the in dwelling of Christ by His Spirit that produces those that the world will look upon as freaks. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx4mercy Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 [Regarding keeping the 4th commandment and not showing love -] My first thought was "absolutely." But then after a couple seconds I thought No, because I think if a person is truly keeping the 4th commandment holy, which I doubt the majority really do, then I think they would also be showing love towards others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 13, 2013 Members Share Posted January 13, 2013 Yes it is a very good question, and I'm also pretty sure there is no answer, because I don't buy the premise at all. Like I replied in my post, Love is the foundation. If what's be implied, is that the Church doesn't say that, that's not my problem or who I look to to tell me about the Churches Identifying Characteristic. The people of the Church are the Church. So maybe that's what's being seen by those outside the church. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Imagine a line-up of 4 men. A victim of one of these men is there to identify who the perpetrator is. The victim sees 4 white males, all in their mid 20's. Each is 5'8, approximately 170 pounds, and each has a goatee and a full head of hair. All 4 have menacing grins, eye glasses and broad shoulders. Only one has front teeth missing. The victim remembers that the assailant had no front teeth when he grinned. The victim identifies the man with no front teeth as the perpetrator. Name the identifying characteristics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Laz, look around. How much actual love do you see amongst your fellow SDA's? Here, at your local church? I'm not talking about the pretty face that gets put on each Saturday, I am talking about the actual love shown when it gets down to the nitty gritty. Maybe you can find the answer to why it is not an identifying characteristic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 14, 2013 Members Share Posted January 14, 2013 If I'm not mistaken, I think this is the point EC Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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