The Final Warning

[Gus Foster]

It is well for all of us to read and study GC, chapters 38 and 39, The Final Warning and The Time of Trouble. Since many feel we are in that time in earth's history that are the closing moments, and that the book of Revelation is being unfolded literally and symbolically, it is good to re-enforce our beliefs and fortify our faith.

Notice on page 603 Ellen White states that the 3rd angels message was given in power first in 1844. And she refers to Rev 18:1 in harmony with Rev 14:6-9 as presenting the gospel and the warning of the fall of Babylon. Page 605 is of interest because she describes the rejection of religious people accepting the true condition of the church and of the United States. On page 606 she introduces the last effort of the the blowing of the Revelation trumpets":

1st---"Thus the message of the third angel will be proclaimed-----------"

2nd---pg 607; "As the controversy extends into new fields and the minds-------------'

3rd---"The church appeals to the strong arm of civil power------------"

4th---pg 608; "As the storm approaches--------"

5th---"In this time of persecution the faith-----------"

6th---pg 609; The same trials have been experienced by men of God in ages past------------"

And 7th---pg 613 (the Time of Trouble); "When the third angel's message closes, mercy no longer pleads for the guilty inhabitants of the earth--------------"

Pg 614--"When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth----------"

What a terrible, horrible, aweful time-------may we now spend our time and efforts blowing those trumpets---Eze 33:1-9.

[Robert]

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And 7th---pg 613 (the Time of Trouble); "When

the third angel's message

closes, mercy no longer pleads for the guilty inhabitants of the earth--------------"

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Several have written to me [EGW], inquiring if the message of justification by faith is the third angel's message, and I have answered, "It is the third angel's message in verity." [Review and Herald, April 1, 1890.]

Men's only hope now and in the judgment is justification by faith alone....Sure we grow, but ultimately that doesn't contribute to our standing before God.

So when "the world" rejects their only means of salvation, mercy will no longer plead for the guilty inhabitants of the earth. They will remain "under the law" and under it is only condemnation!

[benherndon]

Why are SDAs so concerned about prophesying the future? Isn't God going to just do His 'thing'? Why not wait to see what happens--and how?

Worry/concerns about the future takes our minds off of Jesus and what He can/is doing for us right now! We are living in the TODAYs of Heb 3 & 4. We cannot significantly effect what is going to happen in the future. And, if the Lord is waiting until a significant number of SDAs are going to perfectly reproduce His character---the Lord is NEVER going to return! Sorry !!

Ben

[LifeHiscost]

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benherndon said:

We cannot significantly effect what is going to happen in the future.

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[:"red"] "Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,

looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God" [/] 2 Peter 3:11-13 NASB

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benherndon said:

And, if the Lord is waiting until a significant number of SDAs are going to perfectly reproduce His character

Ben

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I heard a young pastor give a different viewpoint of that comment. When all the gifts of the Spirit were in the body of believers, then the Lord would be prepared to come. It is my opinion that all those gifts are already present in the body of Christ. The only thing missing is that found in this text;

[:"red"] "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance." [/] 2 Pet 3:9 NASB

And since repentance is not seen by the many as a necessity

for themselves, it is not asked for, therefore not received.

[:"red"] "You say, `I am rich. I have everything I want. I don't need a thing!' And you don't realize that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked." [/] Rev 3:9 NLT

[:"red"] "Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. " [/] Acts 5:31 NKJV

[:"red"] "Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not." [/] James 4:2 KJV

Keep the faith!

[benherndon]

LHC, I believe all those texts you quote and in the context in which they were written.

Have you observed the fact that when one comes out with, for example, detailed calculations from the symbols of Revelation, again--for example, that they get into argumentation with others who have figured it out a bit differently? And, nobody knows exactly what those symbols all mean!! No, not even EGW!!!

In fact, most authorities of Revelation and its prophecies agree that whatever Revelation 'said' it was to be understood by the Christiains of that time primarily.

Tell us----do you know exactly and with authority what 'blood as high as a horses neck' means? If so, let's have it. If not, let's wait to see what it means when the time happens, if we are alive then.

What good is prophecy of 'end times' going to do me with I'm going to be dead in a very few years if, even, I live that long?

Trust in the Lord and in His righteousness and believe that He was raised from death and.......you WILL be saved!!

I understand that, I think. I don't understand the spiritual significance of 'blood as high as a horses neck'. If I were to live during that coming time, I might understand when I saw it---hopefully. But right now??

Its not important! The Gospel is important----not understanding how deep a river of blood is, or, when 1/3rd of the ocean burns up, is going to be/or mean... someday way into the future beyond my lifetime and beyond my comprehension. I've tried to mesh the classical SDA prophecies with Revelation's wordings----and read a lot of authors on the subject----conclusion? ----NOBODY KNOWS!'--and they say with confidence that they know, whoever they are--they make speculations be dependable 'facts'. OH! Really!? Hmmm???

Concentrate on Christ and HIs actions in our behalf---the gospel according to Him and His chosen New Testament writers. Relax 'in' the Lord and His promises! Don't worry or fret or waste time (!) trying to figure out exactly the sequence of events about to happen when the 'end of this world' comes. That's His business----not ours. I do have faith that those who actually go through those times in the indefinite future will be impressed what they should recognize by His Holy Spirit when it all begins to happen. Remember we used to think the Lisbon earthquake was a significant fact indicating HIs soon coming? Remember? How long today has it been since you've heard any comment about the Lisbon earthquake? Well, I remember when the depression was a 'sign', then, WWII was a sign, then, all the stress the world has had since then has been a sign----remember when Turkey was the King of the NOrth??

This has gone on and on and on--all the while this church has missed the significance of the 'covenant of Grace' and its doubtful many SDAs sitting in the pews 20 yrs ago had any idea what the 'gospel' was except that it was the 'three angel's message'---and if you asked them what that was, you got a faraway look in the eye!

Concentration on 'prophetic speculations' about 'end times' of which we know nothing (!!!) for sure other than that God is in charge, detracts our attention from the gospel and understanding the covenants---and a lot of other points to be learned from the New Testament pertaining to our salvation daily right now.

First things first!

Ben

[Gerr]

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Men's only hope now and in the judgment is justification by faith alone....Sure we grow, but ultimately that doesn't contribute to our standing before God.

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[:"blue"]The last sentence is FALSE!!!

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[/]

[:"red"]"Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy,[:"blue"]without holiness[/] NO ONE will see the Lord." Heb 12:14 NIV

"Pursue peace and the sanctification without which NO ONE will see the Lord." NASB

"Try to live in peace with all people, and try to live free from sin. Anyone whose life is not holy will never see the Lord." NCV

"....and try to live a holy life, because NO one will see the Lord without it." GNT

"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them." Mt 7:19,20 NKJ.

"A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard. 'Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and fine none. CUT IT DOWN; why does it use up the ground?' But he answered and said to him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it. And if bears fruit, well. BUT IF NOT, after that YOU CAN CUT IT DOWN.'" Lk 13;6-9 NKJ. [/]

[:"blue"]Sanctification/holiness is not the ground/basis for justification/forgiveness/salvation; it validates it. The apple fruit is not the basis of an apple tree being an apple tree; the fruit tells us the tree is REALLY an apple tree and not one that just looks like it. It is one's character/life that validates one's profession. [/]

Gerry

[Gerr]

"Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." Lk 21:28 NKJ.

Gerry

[benherndon]

"The Word became flesh and lived for a while among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.....From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God, but God the only Son, who is at the Father's side, has made him known." John 1

Has it been observed that none of the OT was written by anybody who had actually seen God? (Well, I guess Moses did see God's back in the cleft of the rock.)

Has it been observed that the NT was written by those who for 3 1/2 yrs had actually seen, talked with, eaten with----those who not only did all those things WITH Him but, also, saw His miracles and saw Him crucified and raised back to life?

Isn't it logical to observe that the NT would have authority over the OT?

Jesus was/is God---in human form! That's a....like Wow!!---to me! Am I overdoing it?

WDYT?

[Gerr]

"So the LORD spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend." Ex:33:11 NKJ

"But since then there has not arisen Israel a prophet like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face." Dt 34:10 NKJ.

"In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up...." Isa 6:1 NKJ.

"The words of Jeremiah....to whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah...." Jer 1:1,2 NKJ.

"The word of the LORD that came to Hosea...." Hos 1:1 NKJ

Gerry

[LifeHiscost]

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Gerry Cabalo said:

[:"red"]"Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be

holy

,

without holiness NO ONE will see the Lord."[/] Heb 12:14 NIV

[:"blue"]Sanctification/holiness is not the

ground/basis for justification/forgiveness/salvation; it validates it. The apple fruit is not the basis of an apple tree being an apple tree; the fruit tells us the tree is REALLY an apple tree and not one that just looks like it. It is one's character/life that validates one's profession. [/]

Gerry

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One of the greatest joys of my life is to see the fruit God produces in me, as well as in others. As you have said, Gerry, it is the validation that the promises of the Master are being fulfilled, just as He said they would be.

[:"red"] "He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. " [/]

1 John 5:12 NKJV

[:"red"] "...for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. " [/] Philippians 2:13 NASB

[:"red"] "Give attention to this! Behold, a sower went out to sow...The ones along the path are those who have the Word sown [in their hearts].... And those sown on the good (well-adapted) soil are the ones who hear the Word and receive and accept and welcome it and bear fruit--some thirty times as much as was sown, some sixty times as much, and some [even] a hundred times as much." [/]

Mark 4:3,15,20 AMP

Keep the faith!

[LifeHiscost]

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benherndon said:

LHC, I believe all those texts you quote and in the context in which they were written.

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Praise God!!

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And, nobody knows exactly what those symbols all mean!!

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[:"red"] "[THIS IS] the revelation of Jesus Christ [His unveiling of the divine mysteries]. God gave it to Him to disclose and make known to His bond servants certain things which must shortly and speedily come to pass in their entirety. And He sent and communicated it through His angel (messenger) to His bond servant John,

Who has testified to and vouched for all that he saw [in his visions], the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Blessed (happy, to be envied) is the man who reads aloud [in the assemblies] the word of this prophecy; and blessed (happy, to be envied) are those who hear [it read] and who keep themselves true to the things which are written in it [heeding them and laying them to heart], for the time [for them to be fulfilled] is near." [/] Rev 1:1-3

I see nothing ambiguous about this Word, although it is evident from the message it is those who hear and keep themselves true to the things that are written who are blest. And since it is stated to be a revelation of Jesus, given to His servant John by an angel, to be then passed on, it would be disbelief to say Jesus was unable to convey the message He said was a revelation of Himself.

The fact that I know not every nuance of the written Word, is only strong evidence that God is Who He says He is, and the best of His servants can only submit their ignorance to His depth of knowledge and wisdom until He, in His good time, reveals it to whomever He will. And to say that some others do not understand, just because I find difficulty, is slightly less than humble, wouldn't you say?

As you have said, Jesus will give, in His own good time, knowledge to those whom He sees fit to receive it, to individual as well as corporately.

[:"red"] Be good to your servant,

that I may live and obey your word.

Open my eyes to see

the wonderful truths in your law. I am but a foreigner here on earth;

I need the guidance of your commands.

Don't hide them from me!

[/] Psalms 119:17-19 NLT

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What good is prophecy of 'end times' going to do me with I'm going to be dead in a very few years if, even, I live that long?

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Very good question. I'm supposing one answer could be that to strive for the pathway God has chosen for the individual, would be to influence for the moment we are here, others who would like the light of the gospel to be made clear to them, to the honor and glory of God. After all, very few of us are guaranteed the next heartbeat.

[:"red"] "And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come." [/] Luke 19:13 KJV

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Trust in the Lord and in His righteousness and believe that He was raised from death and.......you WILL be saved!!

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Couldn't agree with you more. And in the resting in that truth, I'm removed from the heavy load many bear, thinking that the fruit they bear is a condition of salvation. But as Gerry has often stated, fruit born is an assurance of the promise having been fulfilled in us, not a condition of salvation. For those who have time in their lives left, after claiming Jesus Lord of their lives, His work in and through them, will be accomplished, by His Spirit.

[:"red"] "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." [/]

Matt 11:28-30 KJV

A yoke is an instument designed for enhancing the ability to share a load with another. I presume it is possible, that some may enter the kingdom of heaven without sharing that burden. That isn't my call to make. However, the ones who go rejoicing, will be the ones whose efforts influenced people to go with them, in meeting the Lord face to face.

[:"red"] "He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him."[/] Psalms 126:6 KJV

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Don't worry or fret or waste time

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(Got to agree with you there. LHC) (!)

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trying to figure out exactly the sequence of events about to happen when the 'end of this world' comes.

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And I doubt that very many of the Lord's own are exact in their reckoning of time prophecy. However it is given to the Lord's servants, knowledge of things to come that help them to find life easier than the unbeliever, when certain future events transpire according to plan.

[:"red"] "Do you know how to discern the appearance of the sky, but cannot discern the signs of the times?" [/] Matt 16:3

Early on, I was influenced in my Christian experience to make effort to steer clear of the larger cities. I heeded the advice as from God. When times got financially tough, even though I made effort to take employment in the larger cities, God stood in the way. Today I praise God for the peace and a measure of security that many do not have in the larger cities, even though some are believers.

Will those believers be saved? Probably so. It's not my call. However I enjoy a quality of life I could not have obtained, especially in my financial strata, had I not made God's wishes for me paramount at certain critical times.

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That's His business----not ours.

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Anything that involves me, in order to make the wisest choices, God asks me to involve myself as I am made able.

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This has gone on and on and on--all the while this church has missed the significance of the 'covenant of Grace' and its doubtful many SDAs sitting in the pews 20 yrs ago had any idea what the 'gospel' was except that it was the 'three angel's message'---and if you asked them what that was, you got a faraway look in the eye!

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Mistakes acknowledged. I remember the Israelites wandering for 40 years because of their foolish disregard of God's advice. I don't believe human nature has changed that much since then, except the consequences of pervasive evil is far more evident now. Thank God for His grace.

[:"red"] "where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?" [/]Romans 5:20 NKJV: 6:1 KJV

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Concentration on 'prophetic speculations' about 'end times' of which we know nothing (!!!) for sure other than that God is in charge, detracts our attention from the gospel

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Since the person who "speculates" must answer for his/her own spiritual health, it remains necessary for those who choose Jesus to follow where He leads.

[:"red"] "Let love be your highest goal, but also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives, especially the gift of prophecy." [/] 1 Cor 14:1

Regards

Keep the faith!

[Guest]

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LifeHiscost said:

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Gerry Cabalo said:

[:"red"]"Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be

holy

,

without holiness NO ONE will see the Lord."[/] Heb 12:14 NIV

[:"blue"]Sanctification/holiness is not the

ground/basis for justification/forgiveness/salvation; it validates it. The apple fruit is not the basis of an apple tree being an apple tree; the fruit tells us the tree is REALLY an apple tree and not one that just looks like it. It is one's character/life that validates one's profession. [/]

Gerry

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One of the greatest joys of my life is to see the fruit God produces in me, as well as in others. As you have said, Gerry, it is the validation that the promises of the Master are being fulfilled, just as He said they would be.

[:"red"] "He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. " [/]

1 John 5:12 NKJV

[:"red"] "...for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. " [/] Philippians 2:13 NASB

[:"red"] "Give attention to this! Behold, a sower went out to sow...The ones along the path are those who have the Word sown [in their hearts].... And those sown on the good (well-adapted) soil are the ones who hear the Word and receive and accept and welcome it and bear fruit--some thirty times as much as was sown, some sixty times as much, and some [even] a hundred times as much." [/]

Mark 4:3,15,20 AMP

Keep the faith!

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"Luke 18:11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

18:12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

18:13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

18:14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

[LifeHiscost]

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Ed White said:

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"Luke 18:11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

18:12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

18:13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

18:14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

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[:"red"] "Then I heard a strong (loud) voice in heaven, saying, Now it has come--the salvation and the power and the kingdom (the dominion, the reign) of our God, and the power (the sovereignty, the authority) of His Christ (the Messiah); for the accuser of our brethren, he who keeps bringing before our God charges against them day and night, has been cast out!

And they have overcome (conquered) him by means of the blood of the Lamb and by the utterance of their testimony, for they did not love and cling to life even when faced with death [holding their lives cheap till they had to die for their witnessing]." [/] Rev 12:10,11 AMP

[Guest]

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LifeHiscost said:

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Ed White said:

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"Luke 18:11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

18:12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

18:13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

18:14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

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[:"red"] "Then I heard a strong (loud) voice in heaven, saying, Now it has come--the salvation and the power and the kingdom (the dominion, the reign) of our God, and the power (the sovereignty, the authority) of His Christ (the Messiah); for the accuser of our brethren, he who keeps bringing before our God charges against them day and night, has been cast out!

And they have overcome (conquered) him by means of the blood of the Lamb and by the utterance of their testimony, for they did not love and cling to life even when faced with death [holding their lives cheap till they had to die for their witnessing]." [/] Rev 12:10,11 AMP

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Searching my memory bank, I know of no greater deception than for a person to be led into, than to THINK they are right but when the dust settles they may discover they were sold a bum steer.

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"Proverbs 16:25 "There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death." But praise be to God as long as there is life there is hope.

[Nicodema]

God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

[Guest]

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Nicodema said:

God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

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Nico you make my point more forceful, a "sound mind" does not quote from novels.And the kind of "love" I endevor to reveal is to be loving enough to restore the signposts run down by a speeding car of grinning hirling shepherds on their way to coach a ball game of competing Adventist schools. This grinning your way to heaven is a dead-end street, Adventism has taught correctly for 100 years that we are now living in the day of Atonement. That means to get clean and take off your bracelets, dancing shoes & nose jewels.

[Nicodema]

I wear neither bracelets, nor dancing shoes, nor nose jewels, Ed.

Neither did I quote from a novel -- that quote was from the Scriptures!