BobRyan Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Well in Dan 7:17 the 4 beasts are four kings or empires... in Dan 7:24 the Ten horns are 10 kings or kingdoms. the same is true in Rev 13 and 17 - the 7 heads are "7 kings" or empires. 1 - Babylon 2. Persia 3. Greece 4. Pagan Rome 5. Papal Rome "Five have fallen" - at the point in time that the vision shows the harlot already having daughters, already drunk with the blood of the saints, already having false doctrine. Thus it is a future point for John - when the Papacy had already fallen at the point of 1798. 6. One is -- (France at the time of 1798 the fall of the Papacy) France and atheism. 7. One is yet to come. No one is questioning that the beast that receives a deadly wound in 1798 in Rev 13 is the papacy. But the 7 heads and 4 animal descriptions go all the way back to Daniel 7. Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Well in Dan 7:17 the 4 beasts are four kings or empires... in Dan 7:24 the Ten horns are 10 kings or kingdoms. the same is true in Rev 13 and 17 - the 7 heads are "7 kings" or empires. 1 - Babylon 2. Persia 3. Greece 4. Pagan Rome 5. Papal Rome "Five have fallen" - at the point in time that the vision shows the harlot already having daughters, already drunk with the blood of the saints, already having false doctrine. Thus it is a future point for John - when the Papacy had already fallen at the point of 1798. 6. One is -- (France at the time of 1798 the fall of the Papacy) France and atheism. 7. One is yet to come. No one is questioning that the beast that receives a deadly wound in 1798 in Rev 13 is the papacy. But the 7 heads and 4 animal descriptions go all the way back to Daniel 7. Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paula Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Interesting... keep them coming, please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 ...Babylon is specified in Dan 2. Medo-Persia is named in Dan 8, and so also is Greece named in Dan 8. Thus it was very easy for pretty much all Christian denominations to accept the 4 empire sequence seen not only in Dan 2 but also in Dan 7. Thus the 4 kings are four empires - but in Dan 7 we are also told that the 10 horns on the 4th beast are also 10 kings or kingdoms. And in fact Pagan Rome does not split into 10 kings - but into ten kingdoms. in Christ, Bob Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 ... No one is questioning that the beast that receives a deadly wound in 1798 in Rev 13 is the papacy. But the 7 heads and 4 animal descriptions go all the way back to Daniel 7. Ellen White never says of the beast in Rev 13 that the 7 heads are 7 popes - rather what she said in the 1890's was that the second coming was supposed to have already happened. She never said anything about waiting for 5 or 6 more Popes. In Christ, Bob Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Interesting... keep them coming, please... Sister Paula, You don't have to wait for us to settle the meaning of Bible prophecy here, you can read my book and see for yourself how prophecy is now being fulfilled. Anybody can send me a PM for details Blessings Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I agree Bob Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paula Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Hi HCH, I studied the 7 Kings/Popes theory years ago, and I tend to think that there is something to it. Of course, we'll only know for sure (as with any prophecy), once it comes to pass. I agree that a head can represent an individual (as is the case with the 4 heads on the Leopard of Daniel, which represents the 4 generals who took over Greece after the death of Alexander the Great). I am anxiously waiting to see if this next pope will truly be the last!! I'll PM you to get a copy of your book!! THANKS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Paula, There are various studies in cyberspace regarding this. Two of them are: http://666man.net/ http://666beast.net/ Quote In His Love, Mercy & Grace Daryl http://www.maritime-sda-online.com https://www.pugwashsdachurch.org/media?page=1&sort_by=Date&is_ascending=0&search=&tags=&presenter= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Paula, There are various studies in cyberspace regarding this. Two of them are: http://666man.net/ http://666beast.net/ Thanks for sharing that Daryl Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 The first end of the 2300-years was 1843. The last end of the 2300-years was 1844. Thus at the time appointed for the end of the 2300-year prophecy in this dispensation, Medo-Persia was not in existence and could not be the power of which Gabriel is speaking. Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 This is interesting Bob, The first end of the 2300-years was 1843. The last end of the 2300-years was 1844. Thus at the time appointed for the end of the 2300-year prophecy in this dispensation, Medo-Persia was not in existence and could not be the power of which Gabriel is speaking. Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Textus Receptus Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Hi HCH, I studied the 7 Kings/Popes theory years ago, and I tend to think that there is something to it. Of course, we'll only know for sure (as with any prophecy), once it comes to pass. I agree that a head can represent an individual (as is the case with the 4 heads on the Leopard of Daniel, which represents the 4 generals who took over Greece after the death of Alexander the Great). I am anxiously waiting to see if this next pope will truly be the last!! I'll PM you to get a copy of your book!! THANKS! I personally wouldn't be too anxious. Setting our hopes for a last pope could be considered setting a time on Christ's return. Furthermore, the bible notes that Rome will be in power until Christ, the true rock dismantels the Empire. If a pope is the figure head and the son of perdition, it is highly unlikley that the papal system would be removed by a human construction. Christ alone has this honor. Atleast this is my take on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 The first end of the 2300-years was 1843. The last end of the 2300-years was 1844. Thus at the time appointed for the end of the 2300-year prophecy in this dispensation, Medo-Persia was not in existence and could not be the power of which Gabriel is speaking. Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Paula, There are various studies in cyberspace regarding this. Two of them are: http://666man.net/ http://666beast.net/ Thanks for posting these links. They are the same ones I came across on a Google search today. About the Pope counting thing...it would hold water, but Benedict XVI skips XV, and is called an "antipope" place-holder between John Paul II and the "AntiChrist Pope". Isn't that about like saying Daniel's 70th week was "put on hold" for the Age of the Gentiles? (Note to Henry - don't answer that HERE...I'm setting up a new thread for that) Suppose St Malachay was wrong in his vision count - and the next several Popes are..."antipopes"? Just thinking here... Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 I personally wouldn't be too anxious. Setting our hopes for a last pope could be considered setting a time on Christ's return. Furthermore, the bible notes that Rome will be in power until Christ, the true rock dismantels the Empire. If a pope is the figure head and the son of perdition, it is highly unlikley that the papal system would be removed by a human construction. Christ alone has this honor. At least this is my take on the matter. Hi Text R, Would you not agree that there is a difference between time setting and knowing the season like in the parable of the fig tree that summer follows Spring? Blessings Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Textus Receptus Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Originally Posted By: Textus Receptus I personally wouldn't be too anxious. Setting our hopes for a last pope could be considered setting a time on Christ's return. Furthermore, the bible notes that Rome will be in power until Christ, the true rock dismantels the Empire. If a pope is the figure head and the son of perdition, it is highly unlikley that the papal system would be removed by a human construction. Christ alone has this honor. At least this is my take on the matter. Hi Text R, Would you not agree that there is a difference between time setting and knowing the season like in the parable of the fig tree that summer follows Spring? Blessings I certainly do believe in the parable of the fig tree. However, I also know that Jesus provided us specific criteria as to what we should look for with regards to the end times. The spirit of prophesy also gives us guidence as to what the end times will resemble. That said, I think it prudent not to adhere to any prophecies other than what is delineated by the aforementioned. Moreover, especially those which come from members of the Catholic church.The bible makes it quite clear that we should not associate with such forces- Eph 5:11. We will certainly be in error if we try to apply a human understanding to what is divine. Lucifer is much more intelligent than we mortals. As such, what we percieve to be insight may be deception. "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." Proverbs 3:5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Suppose St Malachay was wrong in his vision count - and the next several Popes are..."antipopes"? Just thinking here... Blessings, antipope is an interesting term. In the dark ages when multiple popes were raised up (even when it was by the SAME group of Cardinals voting for the first Pope as for the one opposing him) - the way they determined "who is an antipope" is that who ever failed to raise an army sufficient to kill the other guy must be "antipope". But both had the legit claim to the papacy (as anyone could have in those days) and both had successors and both had armies. They are borrowing from the Bible concept of "antichrist" to invent a term "antipope" to be used to condemn any rival claimant to the papacy. It is NEVER a term that was used for a single line of popes to discount one or two in the line of successors. When the RCC determined that a few bad eggs were a given line - they just call them "wicked Popes". in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Originally Posted By: Ted Oplinger Suppose St Malachay was wrong in his vision count - and the next several Popes are..."antipopes"? Just thinking here... Blessings, antipope is an interesting term. In the dark ages when multiple popes were raised up (even when it was by the SAME group of Cardinals voting for the first Pope as for the one opposing him) - the way they determined "who is an antipope" is that who ever failed to raise an army sufficient to kill the other guy must be "antipope". But both had the legit claim to the papacy (as anyone could have in those days) and both had successors and both had armies. They are borrowing from the Bible concept of "antichrist" to invent a term "antipope" to be used to condemn any rival claimant to the papacy. It is NEVER a term that was used for a single line of popes to discount one or two in the line of successors. When the RCC determined that a few bad eggs were a given line - they just call them "wicked Popes". in Christ, Bob It might fit, though, this curious term, as Benedict XVI is being hailed as "a staunch defender of the faith and doctrine, but a poor leader of the Vatican bureaucracy". Could it be that the armies of today aren't measured in troops, but in bureaucrats? Just thinking some more... Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 But nothing in the Dan 8 prophecy states that Medo-Persia must continue even after Greece conquers it near the start of the 2300 year timeline. So I don't know what the problem is. Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 I certainly do believe in the parable of the fig tree. However, I also know that Jesus provided us specific criteria as to what we should look for with regards to the end times. The spirit of prophesy also gives us guidence as to what the end times will resemble. That said, I think it prudent not to adhere to any prophecies other than what is delineated by the aforementioned. Moreover, especially those which come from members of the Catholic church.The bible makes it quite clear that we should not associate with such forces- Eph 5:11. We will certainly be in error if we try to apply a human understanding to what is divine. Lucifer is much more intelligent than we mortals. As such, what we percieve to be insight may be deception. "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." Proverbs 3:5. Brother, I agree that prudent looks like a wise course to set our sails by. So I would ask, were the Adventist pioneers "prudent" to declare prior to 1843 and again prior to 1844 that Jesus would DEFINITELY come on those dates? Jesus did not come. Would they have been more prudent to have remained silent? What did God want them to do: be prudent or to go by faith? If we trust in the Lord, do we proclaim what we have studied to the best of our ability or wait cautiously until we know for sure? As it is possible to be reckless, is it possible to be too prudent (so much so that we are fearful not to embarrass ourselves when we go by faith and hesitate to go further)? Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Blessings Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 Suppose St Malachay was wrong in his vision count - and the next several Popes are..."antipopes"? Just thinking here... Blessings, Is Malachay is right or wrong? His prophecy seems to agree with aspects of the 7-pope view of Revelation 17. Unbelievers are looking to his "prophecy" while looking at the pope's resignation. Truly, This poses an opportunity to present greater light to those who are in darkness. Meeting the people where they are and leading them to Jesus. Blessings Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Interesting... keep them coming, please... looks like we came to a lull Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted March 3, 2013 Moderators Share Posted March 3, 2013 Pretty easy empirical test: if a new pope is elected in the next little while, he was wrong. (of course, there are *always* ad hoc tweaks that can be used to 'save' a 'prophecy') Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Pretty easy empirical test: if a new pope is elected in the next little while, he was wrong. Bravus, (of course, there are *always* ad hoc tweaks that can be used to 'save' a 'prophecy') It is rather easy to express doubt and to plant that seed in the minds of others. I clearly stated that they were all the tweets that I tweeted about Benedict. Being that they are all the tweets that I tweeted on Benedict (no more no less) hardly cherry picking. And anyone who has encountered me on this forum can testify that I have openly posted that Obama is the last US President according to my study of Daniel. And that Pope Benedict is the one prophesied to continue a "short space" and he is the last head of the 7 on the papal beast in Revelation 17. And I have already gone on record as saying Peter's chair will remain empty based on my understanding of Revelation 17. Unless of course Benedict is reinstalled, he is one of the 7. But the 8th is the beast itself (Satan as I read it). If Benedict were demon possessed, the prophecy might be leading along that line. But I do not understand it that way at this time. But i will agree with you that we won't have long to wait to see the proof in the prophetic understanding. Unfortunately, when things get moving rapidly, the virgins wills tart to go their different ways. Those that had the oil of faith in their lamps will be separated from those who waited too long to get their oil resupplied. Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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