The Termination of Pastor Ryan Bell

[BobRyan]

Both of you, tone it down

HOWEVER

Define what TRUE CHURCH means.

"Come out of her MY people" Rev 18 is a call to those who are in the churches of Babylon to come out - and to come into the church movement that God calls "The rest of her offspring" in Rev 12.

Since "My people" is the designation for some of those said to still be in "Babylon" then it means that some group of the saints are still there at the time that the Rev 18 latter rain message is to be given.

in Christ,

Bob

[ClubV12]

Bob, I see nothing to indicate Ryan is under censure or consideration of membership issues in any way by the Church.

My response was to a comment earlier about an unknown member of the Church being removed from membership for an unknown reason, possibly without good cause. It that case, I hope all due process was granted and Church law followed.

[JoeMo]

LoneRanger and OzarkWoman - thumbs up.

Club - You have drunk WAY to much of the Kool-Aid! The SDA Chuch IS a man-made organization calling itself God's true church. God's true church has to do with those who follow the Lamb wherever he goeth - regardless of the "club" they belong to. My guess is that there are many non-SDA's who will be in the Kingdom; and many alleged SDA's who won't be.

Someone really Important once said "Do not judge lest ye be judged".

[ClubV12]

I thought Stan made an excellent point and I concur. Who else, what other Church, has been raised with the special comission to deliver the three angels message?

Seventh-day Adventists stand alone in that regard. It is time we left the politically correct thinking behind and got on with that we were comissioned to do.

I admire the Catholics, being unafraid, unashamed of their belief that they are the chosen people. They are a false church, no question about that, but they are also courageous!

I admire the Jehovah Witness, for their courage. Unafraid and unashamed to announce their beliefs.

I would that Seventh-day Adventists also find the courage noted above because they really DO have the truth. Not a Church made by men, a Church established by the Father of heaven with a special message for a dieing world.

JoeMo says,

"My guess is that there are many non-SDA's who will be in the Kingdom." I'm not guessing on this one, I assure you, there certainly WILL be sheep not of this fold who find their way to the Kingdom. Never the less, in Jesus' time "Salvation was of the Jews". Today He would say, "Salvation is of the Seventh-day Adventist Church" to that woman at the well.

[OzarkWoman]

LoneRanger and OzarkWoman - thumbs up.

Club - You have drunk WAY to much of the Kool-Aid! The SDA Chuch IS a man-made organization calling itself God's true church. God's true church has to do with those who follow the Lamb wherever he goeth - regardless of the "club" they belong to. My guess is that there are many non-SDA's who will be in the Kingdom; and many alleged SDA's who won't be.

Someone really Important once said "Do not judge lest ye be judged".

[Live4Him]

I thought Stan made an excellent point and I concur. Who else, what other Church, has been raised with the special comission to deliver the three angels message?

Seventh-day Adventists stand alone in that regard. It is time we left the politically correct thinking behind and got on with that we were comissioned to do.

I admire the Catholics, being unafraid, unashamed of their belief that they are the chosen people. They are a false church, no question about that, but they are also courageous!

I admire the Jehovah Witness, for their courage. Unafraid and unashamed to announce their beliefs.

I would that Seventh-day Adventists also find the courage noted above because they really DO have the truth. Not a Church made by men, a Church established by the Father of heaven with a special message for a dieing world.

JoeMo says,

"My guess is that there are many non-SDA's who will be in the Kingdom." I'm not guessing on this one, I assure you, there certainly WILL be sheep not of this fold who find their way to the Kingdom. Never the less, in Jesus' time "Salvation was of the Jews". Today He would say, "Salvation is of the Seventh-day Adventist Church" to that woman at the well.

I am happy to see that there are still people who hold the standard high and are not ashamed of the Gospel. Yes if you study Daniel and Revelation as well as sister Whites writings there is no doubt that the S.D.A. Church is called by God to deliver the end time message to the world. Why are many ashamed of this? This should be seen as a great privilege and honor.

[Live4Him]

I am not ashamed of God and I am not ashamed of His word, but I am always ashamed of people that think they are better than others because of the church they attend, or the car they drive or any other things that gives them the arrogant attitude.

I will ask you to stop with your supposed subtle statements that just because I don't agree with you means that I am ashamed. You better get over your attitude Club, because I am not someone that will back down. I have a right to my opinion, just as you do, but you have shown yourself to be an arrogant individual and have said things that show that you are not a man of God.

BTW, you can argue with yourself now because I am putting you on ignore. I can't stand people like you and I was absolutely correct when I said that you are the kind that makes people run as fast as they can to get as far away from you and what you believe as they can. That does not bring people closer to God at all. It shows them that what they probably thought is true, the church5 thinks they are special people and others are to listen to them. Ugh...makes me sick to my stomach. I am so very happy that we actually have compassionate and caring people and pastors in the area I live and not people like you.

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: JoeMo

LoneRanger and OzarkWoman - thumbs up.

Club - You have drunk WAY to much of the Kool-Aid! The SDA Chuch IS a man-made organization calling itself God's true church. God's true church has to do with those who follow the Lamb wherever he goeth - regardless of the "club" they belong to. My guess is that there are many non-SDA's who will be in the Kingdom; and many alleged SDA's who won't be.

Someone really Important once said "Do not judge lest ye be judged".

Let's see, where was that Scripture that tells who definitely

will be in the Kingdom.

"Even so it is that Christ, having been offered to take upon Himself and bear as a burden the sins of many once and once for all, will appear a second time, not to carry any burden of sin nor to deal with sin, but to bring to full salvation those who are [eagerly, constantly, and patiently] waiting for and expecting Him."Hebrews 9:28 AMP Brackets their's LHC

"For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”"Romans 10:12-14 NASB

"But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."Revelation 12:16-17 NKJV

Ahhh! Sweet rest in the Savior of this soul!

God cares!

[OzarkWoman]

Dear sister, I used to think like this until I ran across a verse that really cut me to the heart.

Quote:

1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

The whole essence of being a christian is being meek and longsuffering. I had to learn the hard lesson that God hates a harsh, stubborn and critical spirit. I do hope you won't go down the same road I did because it is not a nice place to live.

So now, I am rebellious because I speak the TRUTH? Oh well, that is exactly what the Bible said would happen.

BTW, don't you or anyone else ever say that I have rejected the Lord just because I don't agree with your draconian ways! I am sick of you and Club and others thinking that you are somehow special people and that if others don't agree with you, those other people must be wrong. Guess what? It isn't that way at all. The fact is that the Seventh-day Adventist denomination is a man-made religion and is not THE Church like so many like to claim. THE Church that Jesus basically started is made up of people not just from this denomination.

I stand by what I believe but I am sick of being talked down to by some of you in this forum and as far as I am concerned, I am owed an apology from both you and (dear leader) Club. I already had a post of mine removed because I told the truth but you and he are allowed to attack me constantly telling me that I don't believe and all. Yes, it is subtle but I am not stupid and I don't follow every Tom, Dick or Harry out there and you and Club are just that, just some people, and quite arrogant at that.

I wonder why it is that most other people don't think act and think like you two? Oh yeah, because most people have more manners and actually think for themselves.

I talked to my pastor last night and asked him if I was wrong about SDA being a man-made religion and all and he told me, no, and he was raised SDA. The pastor before him, the one who baptized me, also said I was absolutely correct. I will take their word over two arrogant people any day. I think it is time to take leave of this forum since there are those that have such a distaste for the TRUTH and for others' opinions about the denomination. You both need to get over yourselves because in the end, you will know why.

[BobRyan]

Bob, I see nothing to indicate Ryan is under censure or consideration of membership issues in any way by the Church.

My response was to a comment earlier about an unknown member of the Church being removed from membership for an unknown reason, possibly without good cause. It that case, I hope all due process was granted and Church law followed.

Thanks for clearing that up. I did not know the context.

I have no idea about the details of such anonymous cases, facts, or hear-say as you point out. I am sure some church some place at some time might have ever made a mistake. I would not doubt that such a thing could happen if that is the claim.

I just don't know if it did in the case above -

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

I thought Stan made an excellent point and I concur. Who else, what other Church, has been raised with the special comission to deliver the three angels message?

Seventh-day Adventists stand alone in that regard. It is time we left the politically correct thinking behind and got on with that we were comissioned to do.

I admire the Catholics, being unafraid, unashamed of their belief that they are the chosen people. They are a false church, no question about that, but they are also courageous!

I admire the Jehovah Witness, for their courage. Unafraid and unashamed to announce their beliefs.

I would that Seventh-day Adventists also find the courage noted above because they really DO have the truth. Not a Church made by men, a Church established by the Father of heaven with a special message for a dieing world.

Amen!

Preach it!

That is the way Christ spoke in John 4 regarding God's commission of the Jewish nation Church when "HE said" - "Salvation is of the Jews" in a debate with a Samaritan about the two religions.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Let's see, where was that Scripture that tells who definitely

will be in the Kingdom.

"Even so it is that Christ, having been offered to take upon Himself and bear as a burden the sins of many once and once for all, will appear a second time, not to carry any burden of sin nor to deal with sin, but to bring to full salvation those who are [eagerly, constantly, and patiently] waiting for and expecting Him."Hebrews 9:28 AMP Brackets their's LHC

"For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”"Romans 10:12-14 NASB

"But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."Revelation 12:16-17 NKJV

Ahhh! Sweet rest in the Savior of this soul!

God cares!

Good Bible texts -

And also Matt 7 "Not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdome of heaven - but he who DOES the will of My Father" where it is clear that Christ is speaking of those who "hear these words of Mine and DOES those things" as in "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15.

So also Romans 2:6-16 makes it clear who enter the kingdom of heaven and who do not.

in Christ,

Bob

[Guest]

Good points Bob.

[BobRyan]

Ryan Bell makes his own case this way

Quote:

In case you have missed it and are interested in reading, there have been several articles posted about this online in the past few days.

Spectrum Blog

A Great Sabbath at Hollywood, by Alexander Carpenter

Conference and Ryan Bell Share Statements on Resignation, by Bonnie Dwyer

GLAAD

Evangelical Pastor Fired for Supporting Marriage Equality and LGBT Inclusion

http://www.glaad.org/blog/evangelical-pastor-fired-supporting-marriage-equality-and-lgbt-inclusion

Adventist Today

Hollywood Pastor Fired for Being Too Innovative, by Monte Sahlin

http://www.ryanjbell.net/

Now when you go to the GLAAD article that Bell links to on his blog - you find this.

Quote:

Evangelical Pastor Fired for Supporting Marriage Equality and LGBT Inclusion

...

Bell was asked to leave the congregation a week ago, not by its members, but by the governing body—the administration of the Southern California Conference of the Seventh-day Adventist Church—after his theological and ideological convictions were deemed inconsistent with the trajectory of the Adventists.

When asked if he saw the termination coming, Bell—an LGBT ally and marriage equality advocate—said, "Yeah, I would say I did. My views on gay marriage pushed some tensions over the line. There were growing tensions between me and the [governing body of the church], and not just on LGBT issues."

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Here is an example of a somewhat clueless review that Ryan links on his blog

Quote:

Ryan Bell provides this link:

Hollywood Pastor Fired for Being Too Innovative, by Monte Sahlin

http://www.atoday.org/article/1770/news/april/hollywood-pastor-fired-for-being-too-innovative

He has no major doctrinal differences with the denomination, but Bell told Adventist Today that:

1. “my views about gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender individuals is one significant issue.”

2.And, “I have expressed discomfort with the expression that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy ... feeling that statement simply goes too far”

3. as well as “ambiguity about the church’s belief in a literal six-day creation.”

Surveys show that significant minorities of Adventist pastors in North America have similar opinions.

Bell, like most pastors who agree with him on the issues noted above, has not been outspoken on these topics. “I have written articles [published] in Huffington Post and Spectrum that have been construed as critical of the church,” he said. “My goal has never been to slander the church that I love, but to nudge her along the path of growth

Who actually swallows those self-contradictory statements in Sahlin's article without blinking, choking, reaching for some water?

http://www.atoday.org/article/1770/news/april/hollywood-pastor-fired-for-being-too-innovative

(Sahlin by the way is among those claiming that our main problem is just failure to socialize with each other and that we should not be so concerned about doctrinal confusion)

in Christ,

Bob

[ClubV12]

2.And, “I have expressed discomfort with the expression that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy ... feeling that statement simply goes too far”.

"Surveys show that significant minorities of Adventist pastors in North America have similar opinions."

This is good news! It means the prophecy that the Church is about to fall is taking place!

By the way, what IS a "significant minority"? It sounds like a "lot", but not yet half or more. At any rate, it sounds like "enough" to qualify as a way mark toward "the Church will appear as about to fall".

All these things must come to pass, keep looking up, hold on to Jesus! We should sigh and cry for our sins and the sins of our people, but then, dry your eyes, rejoice and praise Him for His coming draweth nigh.

[Tom Wetmore]

Since Bell's outspoken views on LGBT issues are apparently a significant part of the reason for his termination, let it be noted for all those arguing against WO on the slippery slope fallacy that it would lead to compromise on the LGBT issue. Here we have what is widely perceived as one of the most "liberal" conferences that supports WO clearly uncomfortable with going even a short way down that supposed slippery slope and willing to draw a distinct line in the sand and terminate a popular pastor because of it. Do you honestly think any conference less "liberal" would do differently?

Kind of blows that foolish theory out of the water!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

And also Matt 7 "Not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdome of heaven - but he who DOES the will of My Father" where it is clear that Christ is speaking of those who "hear these words of Mine and DOES those things" as in "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15.

So also Romans 2:6-16 makes it clear who enter the kingdom of heaven and who do not.

in Christ, Bob

One of the characteristics of the pharisees and the Sadducees was their inability to view Jesus' description of what a disciple is as opposed to rules of what He must do, a result of failure to believe in Him as Lord. Essentially taking away the free will of the disciple and replacing it with a demand for service.

The aforesaid groups' attitude would be tantamount to demanding

disciples must flow their blood and/or breath in order to live.

That also is a reason why God said His law would be written on our heart, as we need not be concerned at its' continued provision for daily life.

That would of course be other than taking necessary food for health, spiritually signified by the taking in of the Bread of Life, something else most don't see as a demand but an ongoing pleasant, sought after, experience.

That's why I believe the NASB, as well as the AMP bible are more correct translations of John 14:15. That also is in agreement with EGW's comment that we are to accept the commandments as promises as opposed to demands for service.

"“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."John 14:15 NASB

God cares!

[Guest]

Since Bell's outspoken views on LGBT issues are apparently a significant part of the reason for his termination, let it be noted for all those arguing against WO on the slippery slope fallacy that it would lead to compromise on the LGBT issue. Here we have what is widely perceived as one of the most "liberal" conferences that supports WO clearly uncomfortable with going even a short way down that supposed slippery slope and willing to draw a distinct line in the sand and terminate a popular pastor because of it. Do you honestly think any conference less "liberal" would do differently?

Kind of blows that foolish theory out of the water!

I've never made that slippery slope argument myself, but the day is still young. The word slope implies that it won't happen over night. So you jumping up and down saying "See, it didn't happen" on day 2, doesn't really blow anything out of the water.

[Tom Wetmore]

Think about it. The reason that this slippery slope argument fails is precisely because the response to the two issues are so very different and the reasons for the different response are based on the obvious differences between them. Quite simply, they are two very different issues. They are not the same slope to begin with.

[Guest]

I see. I haven't really given it much thought. I guess you could actually be right. :)

[ClubV12]

Tom does make a valid point. Is not the evil sufficient for the day already? Lets deal with one (Ok, two or three or four) issues at a time when they come around. Then we can move on to the next one. :)

[BobRyan]

Since Bell's outspoken views on LGBT issues are apparently a significant part of the reason for his termination, let it be noted for all those arguing against WO on the slippery slope fallacy that it would lead to compromise on the LGBT issue. Here we have what is widely perceived as one of the most "liberal" conferences that supports WO clearly uncomfortable with going even a short way down that supposed slippery slope and willing to draw a distinct line in the sand and terminate a popular pastor because of it. Do you honestly think any conference less "liberal" would do differently?

Kind of blows that foolish theory out of the water!

Except that the SECC is ahead of the SCC in terms of reaching out to adopt an extreme fringe position within the SDA denomination. It is not at all apparent that Ryan Bell would have been fired had he been an SECC pastor instead of an SCC pastor.

in Christ,

Bob

[Tom Wetmore]

Hardly a distinction of any difference for the point I made...

SCC is still firmly in support of WO and "one of the most 'liberal' conferences".

[olger]

Think about it. The reason that this slippery slope argument fails is precisely because the response to the two issues are so very different and the reasons for the different response are based on the obvious differences between them. Quite simply, they are two very different issues. They are not the same slope to begin with.

Thanks. I am looking forward to my forthcoming article as the culmination of two years of study into the ethical trajectories of both the feminist and homosexual movements. I may cite you in the article.

You will be amazed (and humbled).

`G