The Termination of Pastor Ryan Bell

[whatisthis]

Why Ryan Bell and not Samuelle Bacchiocchi?

I had lately noted that Dr. Bacchiocchi is dead, hadn't you? But if Bacchiocchi had ever said that heterosexuality was a sin I imagine there would have been repercussions. I am glad Pastor Caviness did what was needed.

[Stan]

The fact that they celebrated lent is neither here nor there. The fact that several Christian Communities choose to do it is neither here nor there.

Am a strong believer in the Church administration structure, we do not need to reinvent that, we need to reboot it.

[Gordon1]

Am a strong believer in the Church administration structure, we do not need to reinvent that, we need to reboot it.

Well I agree we need to re-establish a hardwired connection with the original Server.

[debbym]

Quote:

Sadly, this phase of this experiment is coming to an end. This Sabbath will be my last Sabbath as the Pastor of the Hollywood Adventist Church. Hours and hours of conversations have led to this point but here is the short version.

Some of the leadership decisions I have made have led the Southern California Conference administration to the conclusion that they cannot trust me to lead this church as a Seventh-day Adventist Church.

we do not know what these leadership decisions were that led his conference to make the decision to dismiss him. we know they have been forbearing with Ryan's alternative style of ministry for a long time.

there is a place for ministering to the world, to the wounded, the marginalized, and the disenfranchised. Jesus died for all He longs for his love to be made known to everyone. But when attention is drawn to those ministering rather then to Jesus, when we have more focus on the minister then to the word of God, we have humanity lifted up and not Jesus.

the way of Christ is very humble, no one has the strength to lift up Christ, he is the rock, THE ROCK, and much to heavy for any of us to lift up.

it is not hard in the desire to lift up Christ to try to do it in our own strength, with our own ideas, and our own plans, and end up lifting up something other then the word of God to the perishing.

It is with great humility that anyone ministers the word of God or leads a church, and this is our great need, back to the Laodicean message.

I am sure the leaders who approached their decision did it with much prayer and humility. this was not an easy situation to deal with, and has been a source of burden for sometime. I hope Ryan also feels his need and deepens his walk with God after such a rebuke. To be fired for being distrusted as a minister, is painful and a great opportunity to re-examine ones self.

Christ saves us from sin, but that work takes time to clean up all the sin in our lives. God works over and over to expose our carnal nature to help us choose to let those ways fall, and his ways rise in us. we cannot judge Ryan's walk, God is still working with him. We can disagree with decisions he has made that are publicly apparent. We can see he justifies himself in disagreeing with his superiors, and has received the consequences. God alone sees all the sides of this situation.

i can see Ryan heading up a church that continues his ministry that is not an sda church. he can call it anything he wants i suppose. It wont work to call it 7th gay adventist though, i think that was stopped. what is this i found? Seventh-day Adventist Kinship International?

[Stan]

Deb... well put.

Wanted to say this, his outreach was for some of the outcast, it wasn't a gay Church. Broken and abused adventist were give hope and acceptance by his ministry.

I personally know some folks who have said that the one in charge does the actions not on what is right, but what gets them re-elected.

I never really knew how easy my life had been, until I connected with some of the people his ministry gave hope and acceptance to. Many had been victims of abuse by the far right wing, that only made things worse. Not all Pastors need to be like him, but we do need a few of them, don't we?

[Gordon1]

i appreciate your compassion for people who are socially suffering.

Stan, I concur with debbym here (from another thread). I believe it's your empathy/compassion which

brings you to support Ryan Bell's position. But he (and all pastors & Christians) could (should) do this work

within the context of the truth - that peculiar Message. Then it provides both encouragement AND a roadmap

to victory over besetting sins - preparation for indescribable trials.

Otherwise we could just be the Salvation Army or the Sisters of the Immaculate Conception.

So we don't need just a few, but everyone professing the truth, to walk in it.

EGW had orphans, students, patients in her home. She had little money, no bling. Etc.

Lots of faith, many converts, expanding work, message truthfully proclaimed, etc.

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: debbym to Stan

i appreciate your compassion for people who are socially suffering.

Stan, I concur with debbym here (from another thread). I believe it's your empathy/compassion which

brings you to support Ryan Bell's position. But he (and all pastors & Christians) could (should) do this work

within the context of the truth - that peculiar Message. Then it provides both encouragement AND a roadmap

to victory over besetting sins - preparation for indescribable trials.

Otherwise we could just be the Salvation Army or the Sisters of the Immaculate Conception.

So we don't need just a few, but everyone professing the truth, to walk in it.

EGW had orphans, students, patients in her home. She had little money, no bling. Etc.

Lots of faith, many converts, expanding work, message truthfully proclaimed, etc.

And sometimes some of us fail to recognize not all gifts are given to all individuals alike, probably for different reasons that only God fully knows.

"So, my dear brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and don’t forbid speaking in tongues. But be sure that everything is done properly and in order."1 Cor 14:39-40 NLT

God cares!

[Gordon1]

Right LHC, use the talents we have.

[hch]

Right LHC, use the talents we have.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

By contrast the low-bar for entry into the church is simply to have the basic understanding about Christ as our Savior and the summary reading of the 28 Fundamental beliefs. At that low-bar entry - even acceptance of the prophetic ministry of Ellen White is optional.

You think that is a low-bar entry? hmmmmm Number one, in my opinion, those that are so stuck on Ellen White are those that have lowered the bar for themselves. My bar is the Bible and Jesus

[BobRyan]

Quote:

An open letter to friends and church family

Eight years ago my family and I moved to Hollywood to begin what has become the most rewarding and inspiring chapter of our lives. Our family has thrived in this urban, spiritual community commited to peace, love and justice.

Sadly, this phase of this experiment is coming to an end. This Sabbath will be my last Sabbath as the Pastor of the Hollywood Adventist Church. Hours and hours of conversations have led to this point but here is the short version.

Some of the leadership decisions I have made have led the Southern California Conference administration to the conclusion that they cannot trust me to lead this church as a Seventh-day Adventist Church. ... But they feel that my leadership has led our church outside the accepted framework of Seventh-day Adventism. We have not been able come to an understanding about these things and so my denominational employment will end on or about April 1, 2013...

But sometimes people grow in ways that are incompatible with the institutions they have been a part of...

... I have been able to do the things I have done because the church has supported me. For that I remain grateful. I wish her only the best and I believe that there are many signs of hope within the denomination including the advances in Women's Ordination. At the same time there are signs of calcification and retrenching that cause me deep concern.

I think we have to give Ryan Bell credit for understanding that his beliefs are not that of the Seventh-day Adventist church.

in Christ,

Bob

[CoAspen]

Quote:

I think we have to give Ryan Bell credit for understanding that his beliefs are not that of the Seventh-day Adventist church.

Can you refer us to a place where that can be verified!

[olger]

Coasp: http://www.ryanjbell.net/

1) I direct your attention to the third paragraph and the fourth sentence.

2) See also the fourth paragraph and the fourth sentence.

Blessings,

gcw

[Arwen]

Am a strong believer in the Church administration structure, we do not need to reinvent that, we need to reboot it.

Stan

Why do you believe in the current Church administration structure?

Personally I think it is not scriptural.

The current Church structure leads to 99.9% of the talents of the body of Christ being unused and wasted.

[Arwen]

Originally Posted By: debbym to Stan

i appreciate your compassion for people who are socially suffering.

Stan, I concur with debbym here (from another thread). I believe it's your empathy/compassion which

brings you to support Ryan Bell's position. But he (and all pastors & Christians) could (should) do this work

within the context of the truth - that peculiar Message. Then it provides both encouragement AND a roadmap

to victory over besetting sins - preparation for indescribable trials.

Otherwise we could just be the Salvation Army or the Sisters of the Immaculate Conception.

So we don't need just a few, but everyone professing the truth, to walk in it.

EGW had orphans, students, patients in her home. She had little money, no bling. Etc.

Lots of faith, many converts, expanding work, message truthfully proclaimed, etc.

Well said

[debbym]

I sense that a lot of us here have been and may be involved in ministering to the violated, disenfranchised, disadvantaged, and those fallen through the cracks in the sda church.

We have a street ministry, and in addition as we have opportunity we connect with former members.

My community has about 5k former members each with a story, and about 5k actively attending members with a story. The hurt, and sorrow, bitterness and pain knows no end.

It is good to help those barriers to Grace come down. It only happens when the character of God is demonstrated to be dependable and there. His kindness, mercy, forgiveness towards offenders, no condemnation, and actual concern and interest in other's lives.

It only happens when we no longer hold onto any of our own personal agenda's and just hold onto the agenda of Jesus. This was just three things, love to God, bring glory to God, and show His love to humanity.

We cannot connect to the world and do any good if we do not have this. we need a stronger connection to God then we will make to those without Him.

Aaron is an amazing example of failure of a leader. He was completely restored and given high priest position. His repentance must have been deep. God is so forbearing with each of us.

I am sure we have a feeble comprehension of how great God's love really is.

We need lots of pastors willing to put their lives on the line to bring Christ to anyone and everyone.

I think Ryan bell left something behind and went forward without it. It may have been sop.

[Johann]

The fact that they celebrated lent is neither here nor there. The fact that several Christian Communities choose to do it is neither here nor there.

Am a strong believer in the Church administration structure, we do not need to reinvent that, we need to reboot it.

Stan, is there a possibility the administration is giving a signal showing that they are not quite as liberal as . . . ?

[Guest]

I never really knew how easy my life had been, until I connected with some of the people his ministry gave hope and acceptance to. Many had been victims of abuse by the far right wing, that only made things worse. Not all Pastors need to be like him, but we do need a few of them, don't we?

What did the "far right wing" do to abuse these people, tell them they were going to have to keep the commandments or something? I don't understand. Maybe they were abused in some other way.

But because someone was abused, is not a good reason to stop telling them the truth. There are people who can love you back into the fold, without ever compromising truth.

:)

[Gordon1]

Originally Posted By: Stan

I never really knew how easy my life had been, until I connected with some of the people his ministry gave hope and acceptance to. Many had been victims of abuse by the far right wing, that only made things worse. Not all Pastors need to be like him, but we do need a few of them, don't we?

What did the "far right wing" do to abuse these people, tell them they were going to have to keep the commandments or something? I don't understand. Maybe they were abused in some other way.

But because someone was abused, is not a good reason to stop telling them the truth. There are people who can love you back into the fold, without ever compromising truth.

Yes Richard, most who are abused want the truth & justice.

Not a coverup or lies or whitewash which is what many receive

from those in power, sometimes called 'truth & reconciliation.'

Could be an abusive husband, corp, gov't. or a church.

[olger]

Originally Posted By: Stan

I never really knew how easy my life had been, until I connected with some of the people his ministry gave hope and acceptance to. Many had been victims of abuse by the far right wing, that only made things worse. Not all Pastors need to be like him, but we do need a few of them, don't we?

What did the "far right wing" do to abuse these people, tell them they were going to have to keep the commandments or something? I don't understand. Maybe they were abused in some other way.

But because someone was abused, is not a good reason to stop telling them the truth. There are people who can love you back into the fold, without ever compromising truth.

for·sooth [fawr-sooth]

adverb Archaic.

in truth; in fact; indeed.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

The current Church structure leads to 99.9% of the talents of the body of Christ being unused and wasted.

Methinks you do not make your home church with a body of believers such a I have the privilege to be acquainted with as a member in good standing. While my preferences for individual service are not necessarily the same as all within this particular body of believers, I am happy to let them serve Christ to the best of their connection with Him even as they allow me the same privilege.

God cares!

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: Stan

The fact that they celebrated lent is neither here nor there. The fact that several Christian Communities choose to do it is neither here nor there.

Am a strong believer in the Church administration structure, we do not need to reinvent that, we need to reboot it.

Stan, is there a possibility the administration is giving a signal showing that they are not quite as liberal as . . . ?

Indeed that is the problem for left-leaning outside of the SECC. The Administration can not always be relied upon to be as liberal as the SECC.

In fact as we saw in the case of the 2010 GC session - more often than not - the Administration is not towing the line of the offshoots SECC.

in Christ,

Bob

[joeb]

Originally Posted By: Stan

I never really knew how easy my life had been, until I connected with some of the people his ministry gave hope and acceptance to. Many had been victims of abuse by the far right wing, that only made things worse. Not all Pastors need to be like him, but we do need a few of them, don't we?

What did the "far right wing" do to abuse these people, tell them they were going to have to keep the commandments or something? I don't understand. Maybe they were abused in some other way.

But because someone was abused, is not a good reason to stop telling them the truth. There are people who can love you back into the fold, without ever compromising truth.

I have to say that to accuse the "right" of running people out of the church is wrong.

What is right is to acknowledge that many people who hold to standards of living without having the love of Christ in their hearts have done a lot of damage. The same is true for those who dismiss all standards and don't have the love of Christ in their hearts. Notice the common demoninator. People, from both the right and the left, without the love of Christ in their hearts do a lot of damage to the church.

I know people who have had their membership revoked without any notice to them. Nobody visited them. Nobody talked to them. They just had an elder of the church show up on their door step and tell them their membership had been dropped at the last board meeting. All attempts to open a dialog were dismissed. They were gone and that was that. It took a long time to get them to even think about going back to church, and even at that the pain was still there, and so was the anger.

This is what comes from not obeying the counsel given us by Ellen White. She said don't congregate in a few areas as the love of God would grow cold in the church where there many SDAs. Why? Because there would be little to no missionary work for the average member, and without working for the salvation of others our prayer life becomes stale and our need to study deeply and depend upon the Holy Spirit evaporates. That our large churches, and areas surrounding our educational centers, are cold, legalistic, and full of people with a very stale Christianity is proof she was correct.

[ClubV12]

I hope that Church board followed Church law in their removal of one from membership. Law is not a bad thing, it protects us, the Church and society in many ways.

Those who apply the law and have thus driven people away as a result is always sad. Those who don't apply the law in their personal lives also drive people away and that too is sad.

Let every man be convicted in his own heart as to the personal standards he see's in the counsel. Don't "judge", works both ways, for those that don't want desert at the common meal, leave them alone, don't judge them. For those that want a second helping of desert, that is not the time or place to make an issue of it.

If the Church is serving coffee after the common meal, I will not likely be back to attend that Church. What you drink in your own home is your own business, please respect the Churches views and guidelines (NOT law in this case) on what you drink at the Church. Just common sense for the most part. I won't be rude in your house, don't be rude in mine.

As it concerns the greater body of believers, Church law (circumcision, meat offered to idols, keeping the Sabbath) are non-negotiable for MEMBERS of the Church.

[Stan]

What did the "far right wing" do to abuse these people, tell them they were going to have to keep the commandments or something? I don't understand. Maybe they were abused in some other way.

But because someone was abused, is not a good reason to stop telling them the truth. There are people who can love you back into the fold, without ever compromising truth.

Am talking about those who try to impersonate God and the Holy Spirit, and convict people of their sins. Too often even the local church is not good enough for them, they don't return the Lord's tithe, yet proclaim themselves to be Adventist and are full of all wisdom and knowledge.

They leave victims all over the place.