Should Adventist Pastors Receive a Salary?

[Arwen]

I've been pondering this question recently and your thoughts would be appreciated.

[Gordon1]

A friend decided to join the ministry after years as a layworker.

He knew the message pretty well.

Then came back to me, quite unbelieving (about 10 yrs. ago).

"I don't understand why they put us up for conferences in five star hotels"

Couldn't help him with that one, but he's now a full pastor.

[OzarkWoman]

Given that the conferences have most of the pastors being pastors of more than one church, like here our pastor has 3 churches, YES, they should receive a salary. In fact, in my humble opinion, pastors should only havew one church. Our poor pastor is working himself to the bone and it is ridiculous.

[Naomi]

I agree OA, most are overworked, carry great responsibilites for inadequate compensation

As for 5-Star hotels ... usually there is a discounted rate for those rooms. I know many pastors who do not stay in 5-Star hotels, if they stay in one for a special meetng....GREAT!

[Kevin H]

When I was a Taskforce pastor's assistant during ingathering time I was working well over 80 hours a week. After ingathering I was able to cut back to a 67 hour work week, and I was lazy compaired to the pastor I was working with.

[Gordon1]

Does anyone work harder or more effectively than Jesus?

Did Jesus receive a salary?

[Stan]

Ever wonder why we are the faster growing church? Why about 20-25,000 are baptized every weekend? and WHy about 200 new companies or Churches are meeting for the first time ever week?

an alternative is to close our eyes and click our heels together and make wishes..

[BobRyan]

The Apostle Paul says they should be paid - that settles it for me.

Besides - "What else" where you going to do with God's Tithe?

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

My quite secular company did not seek out 5 star hotels for corporate travel - but when visiting places like India they did provide that for us.

in Christ,

Bob

[Gordon1]

Stan these are interesting stats.

Could you post the relevant figures - and where this is happening? There must be a chart, table, graph.

[Stan]

there are about 1,000,000 + plus a year increase in membership, these figures are public, that by itself is an average of about 20,000 a week, plus there are a couple of parallel movements that are underground or semi unground that are doing well, in China and some of the radical muslim areas.

Data should be here, not sure if it has 2012 info yet, seems to me they were redoing this.

http://www.adventiststatistics.org

[Stan]

those do not take into account the parallel organization stats, nor those who are Church Identity Thief's and impersonate the Adventist Church.

[Gordon1]

Thanks Stan, I'll have a look.

[debbym]

Yes pastors are to be paid, they are our coaches, working with Christ to make us the best Team of Christians being the body of Christ, that the world has ever seen.

Every ability, every muscle group, brushing up every skill!! with joy and faith and lots of prayers!! go team go!! For His glory let's GO!

The Team Owner is on the field seeing every move we make for Him.

[Gordon1]

I believe the question was about salary, not payment.

[debbym]

you mean paid by the hour rather then a monthly salary, is salary not being paid?

[Stan]

To become a Pastor often it takes 4 years of education, that is about $100,000 plus, and that does not include 4 years of lost wages for not working.

[Kevin H]

Four years for the BA then about 2 to 3 more years for the M.Div then there are other masters and doctorates availble.

[Gordon1]

No Debby, I don't mean being paid by the hour vs. monthly salary.

Yes a salary is payment, but payment is not necessarily a salary.

God's workers will always be supported ("paid"); their needs will be met.

The Whites were an example, as well as many before and many since.

The work was done regardless of the payment schedule.

But all faithful workers knew God would not let them down.

This helped them to exercise, and consequently develop, faith.

Which is the only requirement for salvation.

And precisely what they needed to possess, in order to share it.

(One cannot share what one does not have.)

It may seem a subtle or semantic difference (salary vs. pay/support),

but the one single element all pastors need above all others is faith.

With faith they will move mountains to inspire the greatest group,

as you said earlier.

[Quotations in this forum are deleted by Tom Wetmore,

thus not the most appropriate venue.}

[debbym]

Jesus was independently wealthy, his father owned everything.

Every need was supplied.

But he came here in enemy territory in a war zone, conditions were a little different, objectives very specific.

Where he is now, immense wealth everywhere, streets of gold, jewels weighing tons.

He has his priorities still.

[Gordon1]

Yes Stan, I don't dispute the cost of modern education, MDivs etc. adding more.

But nowhere in the Bible or SOP have I read that these are required to share salvation.

To the contrary, we see a group of 12, mostly unschooled men, hand-picked by the Saviour.

And the doctors of the law being confounded by this wisdom, even at 12 yrs. old.

EGW says a very brief education is the best, including manual skills.

And to shun debt. Etc.

[Gordon1]

Debby, one might claim that Jesus was independently wealthy because his Father owned everything.

Quite true, and Jesus knew this, and lived it - living by faith.

But God is also our Father, thus we're also independently wealthy.

But our lack of faith means we don't realize it, and hence don't act like Jesus - so

don't live by faith.

[Kevin H]

Yes Stan, I don't dispute the cost of modern education, MDivs etc. adding more.

But nowhere in the Bible or SOP have I read that these are required to share salvation.

To the contrary, we see a group of 12, mostly unschooled men, hand-picked by the Saviour.

And the doctors of the law being confounded by this wisdom, even at 12 yrs. old.

EGW says a very brief education is the best, including manual skills.

And to shun debt. Etc.

I agree with you that I wish our schools would do more in truely manual skills and not using those quotes by saving money on janitors and food prepration. And I wish our schools were places teaching us how to avoid debt insted of places that can ruine people's life for the amount of debt they have to get in for the privlage of working.

However I need to take issue with you about the 12 mostly unschooled men. This is Church tradition from misunderstanding some Biblial texts. Because of the Bible the Jews were some of the most educated people in history. An "Uneducated Jew" tended to have the equvilant education to two to four years of college. Peter, Andrew, James and John owned a big business with boats to go into deep water and people who punched their time clock. They did not have the studies with the Rabbis discussing the religion and traditions, but they had a strong business education.

There were some outposts where there was only an equvilant to a 6th grade education. Nazareth was one of those towns. I'm sorry again about tradition, but Nazareth was not known for it's wickednes, but it's "You got to be kidding! You might be from Nazareth if..." Most people did not know about Nazareth. It is not on any of the maps. That Nathaniel knew that Nazareth existed was quite remarkable and shows that he had above average education. Also, being under the fig tree. That was were Rabbis said that students should go to read and study the scriptures.

[Stan]

Would you feel the same way about Nurses? Dentists? Pharmacist?

[M. T. Cross]

Comparing the lifestyle of modern ministers to the lifestyle of Jesus is absurd at best. Jesus lived in a time where one could barter for supper, a part of the world where a lot of the time sleeping outside was a viable option, if worse came to worse one could pick fruit from a tree and not worry about it etc. As noted the 12 men with him were far from poor as well.

Today's pastor, as noted, has to pay for an expensive education. Likely that is going to involve a student loan that will require repayment. He has to pay for housing expenses, food, drink, and works some crazy hours. As much as it is a calling it is also a job. It is how he is employed. Unless you want to go the RCC route, he is likely to be married and have children that need supporting.

Should he receive a salary? You bet and I would be willing to bet that they do not get paid enough for what they do.