Is Spiritual Formation taking over the SDA Church?

[Tom Wetmore]

Once again we have a parade of generalities and labels that mean many things and nothing at all at the same time. The same words are used by different people and mean very different things. Take as a simple example the word "meditation". The alarmist on the same bandwagon as we see here get all up in arms with numerous accusations, warnings, etc. about the dangers of Eastern mysticism, transcendental meditation, mantras, hypnosis, occult, spiritualism, etc. Nobody stops to think or even do their own study or take the time as Gregory has suggested to go directly to the person inmquestio for a direct answer. And nobody seems to consider that what is actually being taught about meditation is following the Scriptural admonition to "Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all." Nor a thought given to this lovely statement by EGW, "Christians should ... cultivate a love for meditation, and cherish a spirit of devotion. Many seem to begrudge moments spent in meditation, and the searching of the Scriptures, and prayer, as though the time thus occupied was lost. I wish you could all view these things in the light God would have you; for you would then make the kingdom of Heaven of the first importance. To keep your heart in Heaven, will give vigor to all your graces, and put life into all your duties. To discipline the mind to dwell upon heavenly things, will put life and earnestness into all our endeavors."

[Stan]

My experience is this. Most people who talk about how SPIRITUAL formation is an epidemic in the causing paranoia don't even go to the adventist church, or are a member of an offshoot that are wanting to cause paranoia in the church for their own gain.

Anyone in that category here?

[Gregory Matthews]

Here is what Derek Morris has personally said about him and Spiritual Formation:

Quote:

From: "Morris, Derek" <MorrisD@gc.adventist.org>

Date: July 21, 2011 11:18:02 AM PDT

To: Don Mackintosh <DMackintosh@amazingfacts.org>

Cc: "Page, Jerry" <pagej@gc.adventist.org>

Subject: Re: Derek Morris

I was rather naïve as a young professor and became associated with the spiritual formation movement in the mid to late 1980s. I wrote a paper in 1988 on spiritual formation which was never published or presented in public but it demonstrated a lack of wisdom. I soon realized that much under the umbrella of spiritual formation is neither Christian nor Biblical. I have devoted the last 20 years to teaching clearly from the Word of God and the Spirit of Prophecy on the topic of Biblical Spirituality. My books and articles over the last 20 years are available to all, as are my sermons.

I regret the lack of wisdom of my youth but I'm thankful for the opportunity to give a clear message for the past two decades. I would be happy to address this topic in one of our presentations if you so desire. It is certainly relevant with the drift towards a spirituality that is not rooted in the Bible.

Your brother in Christ,

Derek

I will suggest that it is inexcusable for someone to propagate missinformaion as if it were true today which for a long time has been false.

I will say again: Our SDA leaders are willing to respond to honest questions that are brief, not accusing, without agenda and not polemical.

NOTE: Today is the Sabbath. Yet, the response above came to me today because I asked a simple question of someone with knowledge.

[ClubV12]

All I know is,,, I love Gods law, it is my meditation all the day. The wise will understand, the rest will imagine evil of their brother.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

. . .imagine evil of their brother. . .

How much does the SDA public really need to know?

I am reminded of a case where a charge was made against a SDA employee. The organizaiton that employed that person took it seriously and spent good money to investigate. They determined that the person who made the charge had intentionally made a statement which that person knew to be false.

The employing organization took action, but not against the person origonally charged. There was a change made that resulted in a change in denominational employment, but not by the person origonally charged.

One and maybe (?) two of the involved people are now dead. Others remain alive. At this point in time, years later, I will ask, what does the SDA public need to know? Should the name of a dead person be drug through the mud?

Should the person who made the false statement have his name drug through the mud. Can it not be considered to haved been a youthful error made many years ago? Is it not possible that the person who did that has been redeemed by the power of the living Christ? Should that person forever be disqualified from service for Christ?

Why would the SDA public need to know all of the details of an event that occured years ago. The Church acted at that time. It should be closed.

Do we need to drag up the worst that we can dicover about the humans who populate and serve our Lord?

[M. T. Cross]

It seems to me that a lot of people tie stuff up in terms and labels, looking for danger all the time rather than simply learning to love their God.

I see warnings of ritual. Do you pray before you eat? Pray when you wake up? Pray before you sleep? That is ritual. If you go to church, you will find things are done in the very same order every week - ritual. Ritual is important and it is dangerous as well. It can be used to set your mind frame in a place where you are ready to worship and focus on worship and learning alone, and it can also cause people to become complacent and just go through the motions.

Meditation. I do not see what people are so very afraid of. You are taking time to contemplate and think on the message of your God. Letting it become a part of you, truly opening yourself to it so that it can be a light that shines from you. There seems to be so much fear that if you meditate you are opening up to "evil" influences. Is your God not powerful enough to ensure that if you meditate on his word wit pure intent you will be safe from any message that is not of him?

All this business about mysticism.... it seems to me that if a person does anything to actually develop a one to one relationship with the biblical God its going to get called mysticism. Yet we have the examples of the trance states EGW went into, Jesus fasting in the desert ( you can bet he was in a different mind frame by the end of that. Why are people so very scared of anything that takes you past the books, words written by men and women, and directly to the source? You all want to spend eternity with this divine being, yet you are terrified of getting to know him now it seems.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

So would you consider trance like states in which one may have super human strength, go hours without blinking or breathing, being totally unaware of the environment around them as mysticism?

You mean like Ellen White in vision?

Graeme

Exactly like that

Though in my world that is not a dig at her, it almost gives me some respect for her.

[ClubV12]

In the early days of Ellen Whites ministry certain manifestations, miracles, were needful at that time to help key players, Joseph Bates among them, accept her calling.

As time passed such manifestations are no longer required to establish confidence in her calling. You can test her work by the fruit of her labor. I don't dwell on those early manifestations because I don't need them and in many instances, like this thread, they have become a distraction.

[M. T. Cross]

These things do matter though Club. From what I have read this was the state every time EGW had a vision. She spent hours and hours in direct communication with her God. Hours and hours in prayer, seeking further knowledge and clarity. Much time contemplating on what she had been shown. THe very tenants of spiritual formation. She dedicated her live to the formation of her spiritual relationship with her God.

No disrespect intended but your response is a very cliche "I don't understand it, so here is the party line answer, and I don't want to think about it cause it makes me uncomfortable" type answer. That is fine as well. Everyone is in a different place with what they are comfortable with.

Here is the thing. Your God, all Gods, are a mystery. We as simple humans do not understand the true nature of the divine. So as such, these things being a mystery, all spiritual actions are a form of mysticism to one degree or another. So we can either find a comfortable place where there a handy doctrines and guidelines given so we can feel safe, or we can go forward into the unknown and learn to be a vessel for the light and beauty of the Grace of the Divine. Either way is very valid, but I think it is wrong to try to stop those that set aside their fears to go forward as much as I think its wrong to look down on those that like to stay in the confines of dogma. Not everyone is ready to move forward.

[olger]

My experience is this. Most people who talk about how SPIRITUAL formation is an epidemic in the causing paranoia don't even go to the adventist church, or are a member of an offshoot that are wanting to cause paranoia in the church for their own gain.

Anyone in that category here?

I'll check, Commander.

(looking around...) Nope. Don't see none of that.

`G

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

When you posted as you did, you posted it as fact. When one posts such as fact, one has an ethical responsibility related to the factual content of the post.

hmph...I was recently asked *not* to question anyone's sources of what is written here...

Originally Posted By: Stan

My experience is this. Most people who talk about how SPIRITUAL formation is an epidemic in the causing paranoia don't even go to the adventist church, or are a member of an offshoot that are wanting to cause paranoia in the church for their own gain.

Anyone in that category here?

My cousin, Ed Noyes MD (a lifelong SDA), has been asked numerous times to go to various SDA churches in the NPUC and elsewhere around the world to investigate the incursion of spiritual formation in those churches and in the SDA church at large. He's written extensively about it.

Originally Posted By: Olger

Randal Wisbey is a big participant in, and fan of, SF.

yeah...I don't understand what's going on with Randy...really odd.

[ClubV12]

EC, I understand your concerns. It's the battle of balance between counsel like DO meditate on the word, DO contemplate the mysteries of God. As opposed to the counterfit Lucifer offers, meditation more in tune with Eastern religion kind of style. We see the same struggle to explain things like marital arts training.

If the counterfit was a hand drawn $100 bill using crayons, you wouldn't fool anybody. But if it's done on a high tech color copier with the right paper, it will fool somebody.

So it is with the mysteries and things of God. I know enough about these subjects to not enter into the discussion. The wise WILL understand, those who have a humble, teachable spirit WILL figure it out.

I'm not giving a "party line" pat answer, I am most sincere when I say, "I love Gods law, it is my mediation all the day."

I understand the meditation and contemplation and even the miracles that accompanied Ellen Whites life and gift as a prophet. Some may consider that "spiritual formation" or akin to "eastern religion style meditation", I won't engage that in a debate. I will leave that to others, God bless them.

NOT from her "meditation", "contemplation" or "miracles" do I ascertain the fruits of her work. I ascertain she was a true prophet from the lifelong record we have of her life. From her work as an author, preacher, teacher, evangelist and community activist. It is this that I base my faith on her gift.

As did A.G. Daniels in her day. He recognized the same thing. He was not overly concerned about holding up "miracles" as "proof" of her gift. He acknowledged them, didn't have a problem with them, he just didn't NEED to them to verify anything. He could see it demonstrated in the history and impact of her life.

If you don't understand the type of meditation Ellen White referred to, then you don't understand the type of meditation DANIEL referred to as well! The same meditation I refer to myself. But some, do understand. May a blessing be on those who are contemplating the meaning of what true meditation means. May they be rewarded by seeing the potential for delusion in the counterfit meditation and contemplation.

[BobRyan]

Ignatius Loyola - first "General" and founder of the Jesuit order - found a wonderful opportunity to marry the meditation and contemplative practices of eastern mysticism to that form of Christianity that promotes praying to the dead, and the result is what we call today - "Spiritual Formation".

in Christ,

Bob

[M. T. Cross]

Fair enough Club, that is a lot more clear. I see it much differently than you, but I respect your position.

[phkrause]

Ignatius Loyola - first "General" and founder of the Jesuit order - found a wonderful opportunity to marry the mediation and contemplative practices of eastern mysticism to that form of Christianity that promotes praying to the dead, and the result is what we call today - "Spiritual Formation".

in Christ,

Bob

Now that's interesting. Wasn't it the Jesuit order that also figured out a way to separate the 70th week from the rest of the 70 week prophesy?

[BobRyan]

Other gifts from the Jesuit order: the gap in the 70 week timeline.

Quote:

The History of Dispensationalism

Dispensationalism is a method of Bible interpretation which was first devised by John Nelson Darby (1800-1882), and later formulated by the controversial American Cyrus Ingerson Scofield [sometimes referred to as Cyrus Ingersoll Scofield] (1843-1921), and is also known as Pre-millennial Dispensationalism. Although Darby was not the first person to suggest such a theory, he was, however, the first to develop it as a system of Bible interpretation and is, therefore, regarded as the Father of Dispensationalism.

The origin of this theory can be traced to three Jesuit priests; (1) Francisco Ribera (1537-1591), (2) Cardinal Robert Bellarmine (1542-1621) one of the best known Jesuit apologists, who promoted similar theories to Ribera in his published work between 1581 and 1593 entitled Polemic Lectures Concerning the Disputed Points of the Christian Belief Against the Heretics of This Time, and (3) Manuel Lacunza (1731–1801). The writings of Ribera and Bellarmine, which contain the precedence upon which the theory of Dispensationalism is founded, were originally written to counteract the Protestant reformers' interpretation of the Book of the Revelation which, according to the reformers, exposed the Pope as Antichrist and the Roman Catholic Church as the whore of Babylon.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

It seems to me that a lot of people tie stuff up in terms and labels, looking for danger all the time rather than simply learning to love their God.

Quote:

I see warnings of ritual. Do you pray before you eat? Pray when you wake up? Pray before you sleep? That is ritual. If you go to church, you will find things are done in the very same order every week - ritual. Ritual is important and it is dangerous as well.

Quote:

Meditation. I do not see what people are so very afraid of. You are taking time to contemplate and think on the message of your God. Letting it become a part of you, truly opening yourself to it so that it can be a light that shines from you...Is your God not powerful enough to ensure that if you meditate on his word wit pure intent you will be safe from any message that is not of him?

MT - Very insightful and penetrating observations. As I've said before - you are one of my favorite people here at CA.

[ClubV12]

Again, there is a balance to be found in "rituals". NOBODY does "ritual" better than the Catholic Church, nobody!

I pray morning and evening, in fact, I've been thinking about following Daniels "ritual", praying three times a day!

But you see, it's not "ritual" I'm after. Prayer needs be from the heart not because it's "ritual". But because when I awake in the morning I want to lay all my plans aside and ask God to lead in my life that day. And at night, I want to confess my short comings, acknowledge my sin, thank Him for His guidance and determine to do better tommorow. Because I love Him and want to be like Him, who arose early in the morning to pray and often far into the night. Lets not mistake "ritual" for spending time with our heavenly Father.

[phkrause]

Thanks Bob. They seem to have a real knack for twisting truth and having many just believe with no problem.

[Reddogs]

My experience is this. Most people who talk about how SPIRITUAL formation is an epidemic in the causing paranoia don't even go to the adventist church, or are a member of an offshoot that are wanting to cause paranoia in the church for their own gain.

Anyone in that category here?

Well you need to wake up, because its real and when I left my former church it was in full SF mode, and now has come to my church so I am trying to find out all I can and send it to the members so they are aware.

[Reddogs]

Ignatius Loyola - first "General" and founder of the Jesuit order - found a wonderful opportunity to marry the meditation and contemplative practices of eastern mysticism to that form of Christianity that promotes praying to the dead, and the result is what we call today - "Spiritual Formation".

in Christ,

Bob

You hit the nail on the head. Good to see you Bob.This is really a issue in the church. I sent the information to the members and some on the church board and tried to make them aware as several people had been in churchs that they brought in SF. Those who have come across it understand the dangers, but you have to show it to the rest, and as you can see its much harder than one would think.

Here is the President of the GC on this issue, very straight forward on this:

'After cautioning against adopting unscriptural fads in end-time ministry, Wilson mentioned some specifics: "We must be vigilant to test all things according to the supreme authority of God's Word and the council with which we have been blessed in the writings of Ellen G. White. Don't reach out to movements or megachurch centers outside the Seventh-day Adventist Church which promise you spiritual success based on faulty theology. Stay away from non-biblical spiritual disciplines or methods of spiritual formation that are rooted in mysticism such as contemplative prayer, centering prayer, and the emerging church movement in which they are promoted."

Instead, he said, believers should "look within the Seventh-day Adventist Church, to humble pastors, evangelists, Biblical scholars, leaders, and departmental directors who can provide evangelistic methods and programs that are based on solid Biblical principles and The Great Controversy theme."

Believers were also cautioned to use discernment in worship styles: "Use Christ-centered, Bible-based worship and music practices in church services," Wilson said. "While we understand that worship services and cultures vary throughout the world, don't go backwards into confusing pagan settings where music and worship become so focused on emotion and experience that you lose the central focus on the Word of God. All worship, however simple or complex should do one thing and one thing only: lift up Christ and put down self."

http://news.adventist.org/en/archive/articles/2010/07/03/wilson-calls-adventists-to-go-forward

[Gerr]

Is there anyone in this forum who has ACTUALLY gone through a spiritual formation seminar?

[Reddogs]

Is there anyone in this forum who has ACTUALLY gone through a spiritual formation seminar?

Some close friends and some from my family were taken to Willow Creek by a Adventist pastor and went to full spectrum of seminars and training. So even we didn't see the issue at first, but it was much better hidden back then, but it was stressed to take out any reference to belief, doctrine, or any foundational Adventist pillars so that everyone would feel welcome, and take others to Willow Creek to get training. All the changes were as we were told to help church growth, that became the driving force, just bring in people, don't teach or convert or even tell them the deeper Adventist doctrines.

This is what is happening at my current church, and it was subtle at first, but now is coming out full force and they are planning to do the Willow Creek training right in the church.

[JoeMo]

Does a 3-day (non-Adventist) non-denominational conference on spiritual impartation and healing count? If so, then yes. Look at the www.globalawakening.com and www.globalmissionawareness.com and tell me if their seminars are equivalent to spiritual formation seminars.

[JoeMo]

IMO, Willow Creek is much tamer than Global Awakening or Global Mission Awareness.