Moderators lazarus Posted April 9, 2013 Moderators Share Posted April 9, 2013 Why? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Poverty is in the eye of the beholder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuff sed Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Poverty implies a lack of something...........No poverty in Heaven/New Earth for we will lack for nothing.............Nuff Sed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 12, 2013 Members Share Posted April 12, 2013 Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Because if there is a heaven I don't think it will be based around commerce and financial trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I tend to think there will be commerce and trade in heaven - but it won't look anything like what we are so familiar with here on this side of the resurrection. Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I can't imagine living for eternity without doing something productive; but we will be doing it for our own growth or forand with God. It won't be work like we know it - drudgery and slavery at things that we hate doing. Furthermore, I don't believe we will be doing it for money - we will do it because we enjoy it. I dream of becoming the second-best guitar player ever (Empty Cross will be the best)! God will provide our every need - just like a Father provides for His kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restin Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I suppose we'll do something besides sit around smelling the flowers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted April 13, 2013 Administrators Share Posted April 13, 2013 Look at all the things people have done here, building, making things, and designing technologies. We are each given a place in the city. i understand we will get to go out onto the earth made new and build ourselves our own home in the country. we will have our city home and our country home. we could develop far superior technologies, and we will be fathoming God's Love for eternity never exhausting the riches of his Love and wisdom after eons of eternity. All the while knowing that eternal life is a gift to the unworthy. we were unworthy but because Jesus' sacrifice was worthy and able to save us from our sin, we are there. I found a book and the title was, Only for the Unworthy. I just loved it. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted April 17, 2013 Moderators Share Posted April 17, 2013 There will be no poverty in heaven because in order to get there people will have to have generosity of spirit, and be unable to see poverty and let it stand. I know I don't meet that standard, and perhaps a lot of people who are much more confident than me of being in heaven could also reflect on this... Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted April 17, 2013 Administrators Share Posted April 17, 2013 scripture reveals that the curse of sin will not be in the universe anymore. That the throne of God will be on earth, and we will all reign with Him. We will all be rulers, and be able to see that all our needs are met. Revelation 22:3,4,5 Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 In heaven we will be judging the dead and the angels etc. we won't have time to have jobs there. BUT when we return to this earth we will build houses and plant gardens and I'm going to start up a travel business -anyone want to sign up for Alpha II ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted May 2, 2013 Members Share Posted May 2, 2013 So you think that the judging of the dead and angels will take 1000 years? Just asking. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted May 2, 2013 Administrators Share Posted May 2, 2013 it will be a thousand years of learning and understanding the character of God more deeply. having every question answered that arises after we get there. we will be getting ready for the eternal deaths of part of God's creation. so far Jesus is the only being who has suffered eternal death. he holds the keys of life and death. we will have loved ones who will die, the angels have loved angels who will die, God loves very one of his creatures, and he will see them meet death. It is called God's strange work, and strange it will be to witness that his presence will not give life at this final event. I think this is a huge event on the way to a universe that is completely free of the pain of sin forever. i am not sure it will be done without any tears at that time. maybe we will do all our crying as we get ready for the event, i do not know. I do know he will wipe away all our tears, and one day there will be no more sorrows for the former things will pass away. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Interesting, I always had a different take on the "strange work". Anyway. Neither here nor there to me. Just a comment, passing through... ...back to the subject. Poverty is in the eye of the beholder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted May 2, 2013 Members Share Posted May 2, 2013 Deb, I'm in agreement with you. I was just interested in what Ellen believed and why? Anyway I do believe we will be seeing why some are not there and others will be. But I don't believe it take 1000 years to do that. I do believe we will explore the heavens, etc. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted May 6, 2013 Administrators Share Posted May 6, 2013 I suspect it will take 1000 years for us to mature to what might be called adulthood for eternity. I think the existence of evil and the Character of God revealed in dealing with it will be much deeper then we imagine. we do not know how long it was going on before the creation of earth. In college you can study 200 years of history in depth according to some scholars for a year or more. we may be studying 10 or 20 thousands years of History and discussing it, viewing it in holographic presentations, in groups of people with angels sharing things and Jesus himself unfolding things to our minds. i do not know why 1000 years. it may have something to do with Gods mercy to even all the fallen angels giving them time to comprehend and get ready for their death. when we return to earth i imagine we will be looked upon by the human race freshly resurrected as space aliens and needing to be destroyed. an attempt for a final assault on God and God's people is described i think at the end of Great Controversy. It is kind of beyond comprehension. I don't know if on that day i will be recalling sitting here thinking about the final end of evil in the universe and how it will come about. so i wonder what i could be doing today that would have any significance for myself and my loved ones, or for any human being on that day? i think it would be praying. I believe i need to pray more. Study more and actively love and serve more. poverty is a consequence of evil. there will be no evil, there will be no poverty. no one will be dying of starvation, or from lack of warmth, clothing, housing, bedding, and no one dying for lack of medical care, and no one deprived of education or skills. no one neglected and failed to be loved and their needs provided for. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted May 6, 2013 Members Share Posted May 6, 2013 I agree debbym, also from what I've heard in sermons and elsewhere. If, and I do believe the creation was 6000 years ago, than the 1000 years will be as a Sabbath, while those that are taken up to heaven to be with the heavenly hosts, for this earth to rest. As we can see in the Bible when the Israelites were taken captive, each time the years of captivity corresponded to the years they did let the land observe the Sabbath. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted May 6, 2013 Administrators Share Posted May 6, 2013 i don't know about the need for the earth to rest, as it will pass away and be no more, and there will be a new earth. But God has not rested from this millenniums of intercession for sin, and bearing with evil in the human race, His labor for the salvation of mankind. Just as the first Sabbath was not our 7th day but Gods, so this millennial Sabbath would not our Sabbath but we would enter into God's rest from his labors to save us. as the fist Sabbath was a time for Adam and Eve to learn and see and experience the works of God in creation, so this 1000 years will be time spent learning and seeing and experiencing the works of God in our restoration. we will certainly be resting from any labors on the earth, because we will essentially held in exile from the earth, waiting to return. returning to eternity the human race will experience time very differently then when we were given a measured amount of time. I am sure we will enter the temple where from the throne of God, the very Mercy seat, all the labor for the salvation of man took place. We cannot imagine God bearing with the wretchedness of humanity and being int he place where all the the intercession of Christ which took place. Then it will all be filled with glory. maybe we will be there and watch when the throne of God will be moved from the temple to the heart of the city, maybe it will already have been done when we get there. God will dwell with us, his throne will be the center of the city, the work of saving us will be done, what will be left will be the cleansing of the earth and the universe of the presence of those who refused His love and grace. we will have enough time to grow rather intimate with each other, hanging out with all those known and unknown individuals who lived for God's glory through all history. it will be amazing. Adam and Eve will get to know all of their children, and be grateful to God for saving not only themselves but each one of us. They suffered so for their sin. But Not as Jesus suffered did they suffer. Jesus and the Father and the Spirit intimately know each one of us already, but we will learn immensely more about them. we will learn more about the mystery of the Trinity. eventually we will all reign with Christ over the earth made new. He is the second Adam, the head of the human race. We can't imagine what privileges will be those of the redeemed. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJK Project Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Fully understanding this issue results in many contributing theological and Biblical “angles” and related “layers”. First of all, the Theologically calibrating and determinative way to view this issue is through what the SOP refers to as ‘God’s Law of Life for the Universe’ stated in DA 20.1-21.3ff. Succinctly said it is that all that God creates is ‘blessed with something special and unique all in order to beneficently, (and for intelligent beings, cognitively, lovingly), give to others’. So while there will not be the type of poverty we currently know on this earth, in God’s perfect universe there is still a state of ‘relative need’ for some special blessing which someone else, or a group of people, uniquely have which, when shared come to make the life of everyone else that much better. It is God’s end goal to make us like him, and what better way than to, like him, make us keyly responsible to others with some gift which they do not have. In Heaven, before sin, that was clearly seen in “Lucifer”, he had been given talents, abilities, and distinguishing features, all towards the leadership role that God had appointed him. He however allowed these blessings to lead him to pursue selfishness and successfully convinced a third of the angels that this way was a better course to follow rather than God’s “forced”, love-based interdependence. This is all analogous to the now fully bloomed, present-day, Capitalism vs. Biblical|Apostolic Socialism (e.g., Acts 2:43-45; 4:32-35; 2 Cor 8:7-15), with Satan trying to still deceive, now especially Christians, even SDA’s, that a method based instead on selfishness, distrust, greed, covetousness and usury is the best and only way to go. All part of his final, “angel of light” snare for this world. (=EW 263-266 & 266-269) In heaven we will indeed have personal property (Isa 65:21) but I doubt that, in regards to things such as vineyards, every single person/family will each have all possible types of trees and crop plants in their yard. I think that farming will be at least coordinately collectivized, in the sense that one person will, e.g., choose to tend to several, but not all, different types of fruit trees and/or crop plant, and will share the produce with others who do not have these trees/crops and thus there will be some sort of tangible “market” where these harvests can be gathered and redistributed to every in the interdependent local community. This may be the issue that was behind God’s Prohibition in Deut 22:9; cf. Lev 19:19, where, if such collectivism existed in God’s Israel, people may have been trying to circumvent only producing one crop in sections of their land by trying to simultaneously produce a multiplication of crops and thus be more self-reliant. Indeed I see this collectivism and sharing/redistributions being done for virtually everything which people then will not all equally possess. I even see that knowledge will be specialized where people will prefer to use all of their brain faculties to become masters of a trade/skill and better serve others this way rather than a “jack of all trades and master of none”. In regards to what the righteous will be doing, at least in heaven, succinctly said, it will then all revolve around God’s final dealing with sin. It will involve, all in a context of Free Will, judgement, character upbuilding and “basic” learning. In regards to judgement, imagine a mega trial today which has thousands of hours of video evidence to take into consideration. Well the redeemed will literally have over 6000 years of (at the very least), general world history to “watch” during those 1000 years. In regards to character upbuilding, God will not be “downloading” perfect characters into people then. Whatever Godly character level people will have died, or been translated with, they will have to upbuildingly work from then. I see also from the Bible and SOP that the 144,000 will have a unique ministering and lading role in this area. There will also be countless “little ones” to raise up then for several years. So there will be much to tangibly do for the redeemed during those 1000 years which is why God and his angels will then be serving them during that time while they do this all-consuming GC completing and perfection restoring work. After the 1000 years, the redeem will comparatively be “own their own”, yet still according to God’s Law of Life. Much more has been said on this topic, e.g., particularly from the foundationally related Theological and Tangible light of Divine Energy and the Sabbatically Fuller Christ’s Righteousness. (See those posts for more). Quote Matt 25:45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windsor Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 This land will indeed rest. There won't be another planetary structure coming to replace the Earth in its spot as third rock from the sun. Rather this very planet will be cleansed with fire and be formed even more glorious than it was 6000 years ago prior to sin. Jesus is going to descend onto the very spot on the Mount of Olives from which He ascended and the New Jerusalem will lie where the current Jerusalem is (though it will encompass a lot more land because it will be far larger). Quote Remember Adventists Online? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted May 18, 2013 Members Share Posted May 18, 2013 Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Perhaps our sun will go to it's predicted "red giant" stage a few billion years early...that puts the tentative surface of the sun right about earth's orbit, and would be a plausible scenario of "fire falling from God out of heaven onto earth" noted in the Apocalypse... Just a thought... Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJK Project Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 No need to await any (supposed) ‘naturally occurring phenomena’. God Himself can “super-naturally”, injunctively, make fire come down from heaven. (E.g., Gen 19:24; 1 Kgs 18:38; 2 Kgs 1:10, 12) Quote Matt 25:45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted May 21, 2013 Administrators Share Posted May 21, 2013 there will be no night or day in heaven so i don't know what the status of the sun will be. no need for a sun, God will be our light Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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