Why will there be no poverty in heaven?

[NJK Project]

Just to be technically & exegetically accurate:

a) that state of “lighting” applied to this renewed Earth, not “heaven” per se (Rev 21:1ff)

as I read it, that state will also be limited within the New Jerusalem city proper (Rev 21:23)

c) 'no “need” of the sun or moon', i.e., in/for that City does not mean none of these, or no need of these, for the rest of the New Earth. (Relatedly as Adam and Eve (i.e., Humans) were created to normatively sleep even when sinless, this will most likely still be necessary in the Earth restored and so night’s darkness is necessary for healthy period of sleep.)

[Ted Oplinger]

Isaiah 66:23 says we will worship God from Sabbath to Sabbath and new moon to new moon...so we will have days and nights to mark off the daily cycle, and there will still be a moon going through phases, marking off a lunar cycle.

The Lord has a wonderful new world awaiting us, and restores everything back to the original Eden condition.

Blessings,

[Stan]

Eye had not seen.......

[Windsor]

Eye had not seen until when?

[joeb]

Because we'll all be socialists there?

Edit: Sorry, my sense of humor just gets away from me sometimes.

[NJK Project]

Indeed we will be much more than socialists in heaven...That`s what this GC is all about: DA 20.1-21.3

[joeb]

My post was tongue in cheek.

We won't be anything even close to socialists at all for the Bible tells us that we will not plant and another eat, or build and another inhabit. We will all long enjoy the fruits of the labor of our own hands. To me that says heaven will indeed be very enjoyable....

[NJK Project]

Well then joeb, manifestly your comment was not really tongue in cheek...

Through such “proof texting” one can “prove” just about anything, including such Capitalist thinking, with the Bible. Exegetically read Isa 65:21-22 in its immediate, and pertinently proximate (Isa 65:21-66:24), contexts and you’ll see that the reason why “another”, and that a non-Israelite will not benefit from what God’s people (collectively) will do is because they, Israelites, will, at the very least long outlive their works by not “naturally or calamitously’ dying at a young age (Isa 65:22b; cf. 65:20) in that Edenically restored, temporal Earthly Messianic kingdom (Ezek 36:35) while the rest of the world would (Isa 66:24). And like it has always been and will always be everywhere in God’s Universe (=DA 20.1-21.3), it is the others-centered work of God’s people which results in that abundant life. (John 10:10)

Even the Holy Spirit led Apostolic Church understood that Eternal fact. If sharing won’t make enjoyable for you then I would recommend the selfishness Capitalist “heaven”....but there then will no longer be such a place as Babylon would long have, permittedly, tangibly demonstrated the utter futility of that approach of which the Kingdom of Satan is based (Rev 18:6-24).

[joeb]

Wow. You got all that out of one tongue-in-cheek post? Sharing has nothing to do with socialism, or capitalism. Socialism is about the government taking what you have at the point of a gun and giving it to someone else. Capitalism is about keeping what you have for yourself.

Sharing is about giving from a willing heart full of love to someone who needs it more than you do. That heart condition is something only God can create in us. It has nothing to do with politics, and politics can have nothing to do with it as politics cannot create that heart condition in anyone.

That you think there will be politics in heaven is sort of scary.

[NJK Project]

Well I have amply dealt with this topic/issue (see e.g., here (others)) and can recognize quasi-Capitalistic/“individualistic” ideology. There will be no poverty in Heaven because God’s, in fact effectively “legislated”, but most natural, system will be Socialism.

And this term Socialism does not need to be political...OT Israel (e.g. Deut 15:1-11) by God’s laws (e.g. Num 26:52-56) and directives (e.g, Exod 16:16-20) certainly practiced it, as did the Holy Spirit led Apostolic Church (Acts 2:44-45; 4:32-35; 2 Cor 8:7-15; cf. Luke 3:11), all according to God’s legislated OT model. So, as DA 20.1-21.3 fundamentally involves, God’s ideal in Heaven will indeed be the Socialism that He will once again “legislate”. As with all of God’s Law in Heaven, this also will not be an option....People who today can stomach most willingly living like this just won’t have the character needed to be happy and trustworthy in Heaven. (cf. COL 332.3)

Indeed in regards to such needed character...God will not be forcing’ us to have it...each one has to initiate seeking to have it on their own and Christ will then assist us in that pursuit. (COL 332.4)

So I was/am not at all involving “politics” as we know it on this Earth by referring to (Biblical) Socialism...it indeed is just what it is: ‘From each one as God as distinctly, talent-wise, blessed (e.g., “Lucifer” was more talented than many other angels and was to be of service to them....but he chose to rebel against God’s model and pursue a selfish course instead, which has by now, as demonstrated through by Revelation’s Eschatological Socio-Economic Babylon, namely (Protestant/U.S/Western) Capitalism has long (i.e., by the 1930's), proven to be completely bankrupt, and how much more so in regards to achieving God’s (Sabbatical) ideal of an equivalently abundant life for all. (Ezek 28:12-19; John 10:10)

[joeb]

The fact that you equate the love of God with a political system is truly frightening.

There will be no poverty in heaven because all the conditions here on earth, created by sin, will no longer exist in heaven. No sin == no poverty.

[Don777]

Poverty is in the eye of the beholder?

Poor people can be spiritually rich. However, if people receive less than a dollar a day on which to live, they would behold the poverty even if they were blind.

Jesus predicted that the poor would always be with us. Thus to eradicate poverty seems impossible. It is possible to reduce the severity of poverty. Simple remedies such as drilled wells for water and micro-loans for business startups help.

[Bravus]

Hehe, I mentioned to my daughter's boyfriend that some here seem to think there will be capitalism in heaven. He said "with what currency?!" It's not a bad point, when the streets are paved with gold...

[Neil D]

good behavior/kindness could be currency....

[Bravus]

Surely a devalued one, in economic terms, since it should be utterly abundant in Heaven... ?

[Bravus]

(rarity is typically what gives currency its value)

[joeb]

You know, I mentioned to my wife the other day how some people around here make huge assumptions and read into other people's posts things that were never said, and never meant.

[Neil D]

Which is based upon ....greed/self...?

The story is said that Sin will never raise it's ugly head again.....

Since greed is a form of sin, by implication then, Kindness will never be unappreciated.....

...hence, it can be the currency of heaven....

[Ted Oplinger]

There is poverty on earth, because the reign of sin in the heart takes away from others in order to have power over them.

There will be no poverty in heaven, because righteousness seeks to enrich and elevate the least - but not at the expense of those greater. God seeks ALL to be equally prosperous.

If ALL are super wealthy, wealth cannot be used as a form of leverage/power against another. Not only will the lack of desire be in the heart to do this, but sheer logic would make even the suggestion mere folly to the Redeemed.

Socialism - which distributes to the have-nots at the expense of the haves - will not exist in heaven, as it is but another form of sinful man's government, where the few dictate who will be taken from and who will be given to, perpetuating sinful appetites of power. It has no place in God's government.

Food for thought...

[Neil D]

I agree with most of what you said except the part that I quoted you ...I can see where you would say that it's for taking power away from some....unfortunately, the definition of socialism is based upon NEED..not desire...

A socialist economic system consists of a system of production and distribution organised to directly satisfy economic demands and human needs, so that goods and services are produced directly for use instead of for private profit driven by the accumulation of capital.

[Bravus]

'Capitalism' and 'socialism' are both completely irrelevant, because they are both schemes for working with scarcity.

In heaven, without scarcity, neither will be relevant. The definition of heaven, to me, is the lack of scarcity.

[NJK Project]

Despite my repeated, distinguishing clarification, you insist on malconstruing and malcharacteriterizing my understanding/view. I say “Socialism” only as it is demonstrated in the Bible. Nothing more, nor less and certainly not Soviet Style Communism....Fact is that it will be the most fundamental law of Heaven that all will have to equivalently share the blessings. As seen with Lucifer, God variously, even uniquely blesses people with various talents and that will be the “capital” of Heaven. This is done to maximize an abundant life for all (=DA 20.1-21.3), because relatively then, given the much more things there will be to learn and grasp, it will still be better to be a master of one trade than a “jack of all trades”. It was Lucifer who wanted to lord his great/unique abilities over others and that is what initiated this GC.

On earth, indeed because of sin, most men have generally been preoccupied with basic subsistence throughout their life. In Heaven that of course will not be such an issue as sin will not have damaged this planet, but the template is the Garden of Eden...and some/certain work was still necessary (Gen 2:15|PP 50.1). Sin only complicated this work. The added dimension that will be achieveable in Heaven is that of an “abundant life” vs. merely a basic life. So all will be also working to provide that for all and this is where the “economy” of the “sharing” of talents will be done.

[NJK Project]

That statement of Christ is often misapplied...As explained See here, He rather meant in that context that contrary to Him who was about to die and then go away, there would be ample opportunity to help the poor who would be, of course remaining. So it is actually a call to still help the poor, indeed with the same great expense that Mary did for him then.

It is actually going to take Christ-like sacrificial work (=2 Cor 8:7-17) to help all those dying from curable, preventable and/or intentional causes (including saving the life of ca. 70,000,000 annually aborted infants)....if, especially people who profess to be followers of Christ, truly are and are reflecting His own character (=Matt 25:45)!

The above mentioned “band-aid” (cf. here) or capitalistic approaches will just perpetuate the needed indifferent selectiveness for certain people to continuing making more than enough and which lets most people in need just suffer and die.

Christ’s mandate is for His followers to “love others just as they love themselves”, and that by definition involves at least a 50-50 sharing of one’s obtainable resources/wealth with the other in need. (Matt 19:21 cf. Luke 3:11)

[NJK Project]

...Actually it will all tangibly revolve around people’s unique “talents”. As seen today in e.g, the U.S. economy, “Services” which are what people are specially gifted and able to provide of themselves to others (for a fee, of course, in Capitalism), makes up over 80% of the countries annual GDP!

[NJK Project]

I rather see that we will only be having, resources wise, what is actually necessary and not more than enough...people have a, actually covetous “more than enough” view will actually be a threat to Heaven’s community. Related, I have a Divine-Energy view which I see was used to create all matter, so, and even if it may be infinite, God still has many other worlds to so bless with such necessary resources...And calculations show that God may now only be at his 373,000 organized planet/galaxy creation for human habitation...so He can’t be splurging everything on this (firstly) inhabited planet....there so many more worlds (perhaps one for at least each Star (=a Sun) that is visibly out there), that He wants to organize/create and likewise adequately bless.