olger Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Quote: "Loving our enemies implies not killing them." Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 With no military, Iceland, is the most pacific country in the world, according to Forbes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 And it also seems to overlook the clear words the one we claim to follow about turning the other cheek, loving our enemies, etc. Loving our enemies strongly implies not killing them. Hmmm.... Christ sentenced a lot of people to death in defending His people and His truth. There is always a balance in things. Abraham who was a peaceful man took up arms to defend his nephew and his nephew's family. David killed a lot of God's enemies, often with God's help in setting up ambushes. If you saw someone threatening to kill an innocent person you would refrain from violence in the defence of the victim? Just how is that loving? And, just to remind you, calling in the cops is unleashing violence upon someone in many situations. Do you think your "pacifist" hands are clean if you have someone else commit the violence for you? Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 pacifismnoun the belief that any violence, including war, is unjustifiable under any circumstances, and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means. I have a feeling some here do not understand the definition. According to some words posted in this thread, it is being suggested that not owning or using guns, in GB as compared to the US, is against God's natural law, which is undefined. It is also being suggested that the US law is superior to GB laws. What is missing is any data to suggest such ideas are based in facts, but rather random events. Those same random events can be found in the US also. I find most troubling this mix of religion and politics by those that want a separation of church and state, or at least claimed or if it doesn't interfere with ones own personal belief system. I fail to see anything persuasive that pacifism is wrong or tied to a nation. I do see attempts to belittle a system takes a different approach to violence by limiting the use of certain items. But then we Americans know better than anyone else...seems to be implied, though not actually said. Me thinks God is wondering why His name would be used to support........well, the list continues to grow! Actually, no, I did not say the US laws are better than GB's laws. I made the case that GB's enforced pacifism is a failing experiment - a much different case. Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Making the assumption that TW or myself are pacifist shows the difficulty that some have with opposite opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Quote: I made the case that GB's enforced pacifism is a failing experiment - a much different case. Ted, you are good at research. But in this case, there was none, other then citing random events. That is not putting a case forward. Where is the data to support that GB's lack of 'guns' in the hands of the public has contributed to or is associated with a weakened Court/Law. We are talking about 'guns', correct? Enforced Pacifism...where, how and what would make a person think that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted April 18, 2013 Moderators Share Posted April 18, 2013 Quote: I made the case that GB's enforced pacifism is a failing experiment - a much different case. Ted, you are good at research. But in this case, there was none, other then citing random events. That is not putting a case forward. Where is the data to support that GB's lack of 'guns' in the hands of the public has contributed to or is associated with a weakened Court/Law. We are talking about 'guns', correct? Enforced Pacifism...where, how and what would make a person think that way? Additionally, IMHO, at best a case was made that there is some public discussion about the rights of home/business owners as regard to self-defence. You may have also shown that there is support for strengthening the law but certainly not the lofty notion that "UK pacifism is a failing experiment". Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted April 18, 2013 Moderators Share Posted April 18, 2013 Quote: What is missing is any data to suggest such ideas are based in facts, but rather random events. Those same random events can be found in the US also. Indeed. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted April 18, 2013 Administrators Share Posted April 18, 2013 Quote: What exactly are you saying that God wants? My reading/perception is that you believe God stands behind the non-pacifist. I had not gone so far as to say what God wants. I think pacifism is a human effort to reduce harm human beings can be very out of control and become violent animals. people with these problems can likely benefit from anger management and pacifist training as an alternative mind expanding perspective. I think God sees the exact nature of how sin is operating in every heart, and through all the ages. we do not have this viewpoint. it is a social problem, and the God's solution is changed hearts. None of our human solutions can do that. I think we struggle along doing the best we can as human beings. and when one of our own goes out of control we contain them if we can. If we are doing God's will God will protect us, and if not we will still serve him and praise him, because whatever changes in this world, does not change who God is. I hear of a missionary family all but one individual killed by a drug crazed Guy, GOd is still good and worthy to be praised. A former pastor in our valley lost his daughter to a rapist murderer who came into her apt. it was heartbreaking, But God was there, and he is still worthy of all praise. I don't have answers to the problem of violence, and i think pacifism is a noble effort. But it is not the solution for all situations, all times and all places. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted May 18, 2013 Members Share Posted May 18, 2013 Here's a link to an interesting article I read today: http://www.adventistreview.org/issue.php?issue=2013-1507&page=24 Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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