Use of Tongues in SDA meetings?

[Sojourner]

On Youtube there is a video of an SDA Minister Barry Black using prayer in tongues as a part of his evangelical presentation at a church where he is speaking. Clearly the person that has put together the video is not to happy about it, hence why they made and posted the video I suspect. In my case is nothing I would not expect to see at an AOG or similar Pentecostal church whenever they hold public meetings.

Yet I am interested in your thoughts on this issue, clearly the SDA allowed Ellen White the capacity to excersize the Spiritual Gift of Prophecy, so I am interested to see how the gift of tongues are received and used in SDA meetings? Is this something that happens from time to time or is this an isolated incidence?

http://youtu.be/DDbdqc5_UG0

[ClubV12]

Tongues are not condoned or used in the Seventh-day Adventist Church, in her time or today.

The few exceptions that seem to come up from time to time (rumor has it, unconfirmed by myself) are examples similiar to what the early Church had. Speaking in a foreign language to reach a particular group or person with the gospel. There are no examples of "authorized" (approved or noted as divine) use of tongues as a means of praise, joy, being overcome with the spirit, etc. There are some, rare, examples (rumors, unconfirmed by myself) of people becoming "prostrate", as in laid down and physically overcome by the spirit in the very early history of this Church. I'm not sure Ellen White ever spoke of this or addressed it directly, if I recall these examples were cited by "eye witness" accounts and such as that.

Ellen White was certainly aware of several cases of supposed miracle healings, speaking in tongues, being overcome by the spirit and other physical manifestations by others. In some cases she directly confronted individuals and called them out as fanatics or being used by a spirit other than the Lords. Actually, she dealt with significant issues of radicals, fanatics and off shoot in her day. Even so called "prophets", of which there were about 200 or so making that claim in her time. Which is primarily why she never used that term to describe herself, so as not to be connected with the false ones. She didn't have a problem with anybody that wanted to call her prophet, because she was, she just didn't use that term herself. She preferred the term "messenger" because she said her work was "more than a prophet".

There was one or two people that convinced even some pretty high up leadership in the organized Church that they were prophets. Ellen White called them out as false, much to the surprise of some sincerely mistaken good hearted Seventh-day Adventists who believed in them.

[Kountzer]

All he said was hallelujah or hallelu which is a common word or exclamation of praise. And you got to listen really closely to hear that. I think you folks are tripping.

[Stan]

it was 2 seconds of barely audio sound, that is not speaking in tongues...

Another rumourmonger is on the loose.

[phkrause]

Exactly, it also seemed to me the recording wasn't allowed to go to the end, when he probably did pray for these people that were coming up. A real peace of work who ever did the editing of this.

[phkrause]

[Gerr]

Where is the babbling? I listened to it twice. There were a couple of words/sounds after the hallelujah that I did not understand. When the Pentecostal TV preachers babble, it won't be for just a second or with a word or two! I'd hate to base an accusation of babbling on such evidence.

[olger]

Inconclusive.

[Woody]

It's very popular to try to tear down others ... even the church .... with gossip.

Very common these days. But still just as sickening.

Clearly - God is not in it. And some day ... people who partake in it will be held responsible.

[Ted Oplinger]

On Youtube there is a video of an SDA Minister Barry Black using prayer in tongues as a part of his evangelical presentation at a church where he is speaking. Clearly the person that has put together the video is not to happy about it, hence why they made and posted the video I suspect. In my case is nothing I would not expect to see at an AOG or similar Pentecostal church whenever they hold public meetings.

Yet I am interested in your thoughts on this issue, clearly the SDA allowed Ellen White the capacity to excersize the Spiritual Gift of Prophecy, so I am interested to see how the gift of tongues are received and used in SDA meetings? Is this something that happens from time to time or is this an isolated incidence?

http://youtu.be/DDbdqc5_UG0

There is a huge difference between the true gift of tongues (given as one of the gifts of the Spirit, listed as such by Paul, and remains to the church until the end) and its counterfeit - glossolalia.

The gift of tongues has never been defined in the Bible to mean a speaker can garble/babble in some unrecognizable "tongue" and claim he or she is "in the Spirit" - this is the modern glossolalia. This should be avoided like the plague by the SDA church.

Tongues, in the Bible, is for the telling of the Gospel is someone else's language, which can be verified in the presence of one who speaks that language. In truth, I have heard of several outreaches done by the SDA church, domestic and international, where there were people in attendance who did not know the language the presentation, yet heard it in their own language. When requesting baptism at the end of the series, these attendees are astonished to find out the speaker doesn't speak their language.

A former pastor in my church recounted an event while he was heading up Zambia mission, of an outreach occurring in Africa to his west. In this case, a tribal chief(?) was told in a dream to seek out the SDA church for his people. Upon finding the church, he sent for a Bible worker - but none in the area knew the language. One man volunteered, went - not knowing the language - and upon arrival, was given the ability to fluently speak the requested tongue, staying there weeks to complete the Gospel work. After his departure, the ability to speak this new language remained with the gentleman.

That is how the true gift of tongues works. It is a spiritual gift to enable the mission of the church - just like the gift of prophecy.

Most of the kind of "tongues" seen in the charismatic/Pentacostal churches...are not tongues, and should not even be described as the gift of tongues.

Blessings,

[JoeMo]

Hi Ted,

Quote:

Tongues, in the Bible, is for the telling of the Gospel is someone else's language, which can be verified in the presence of one who speaks that language.

I'm not so sure that is true in all cases, Ted. I'm no Bible expert, but it seems that when Paul talks about speaking in tongues in 1 Cor. 14:1 -5:

Quote:

Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

I could go one and quote the rest of the chapter, but you get the point. It appears that Paul is referring to people speaking in unknown languages (at lease unknown to the other church members). It also seems like Paul approves of speaking in tongues' but finds prophecy to be a better gift (I agree); but Paul himself admits to speaking in tongues.

Several people in my church speak in tongues. While our pastor/board does not prohibit it, it is strictly prohibited for use in public worship.

I have been at anointed evangelical meetings where I am hearing the message in English; and the Hispanic audience was hearing in Spanish. That was truly amazing! I'm not going to say so-called glossolalia is of the devil; but I must admit that hearing a message in your own language is a true gist of the Spirit.

[Ted Oplinger]

"unless someone interprets" is the key to that passage. It indicates the order God places in His church, and His desire to see the church and the work constructively built up.

Having someone interpret would guarantee what was spoke was indeed a Gospel outreach, rather than a false spiritual manifestation to confuse, then glorify self, rather than God.

Yes, Prophecy is considered by Paul as more important; apostles as more so, and pastors and teachers ranking just below.

However, that does not preclude tongues as a gift with a useful place in the Gospel work - and that gift does have a modern false counterfeit today.

Blessings!

[BobRyan]

On Youtube there is a video of an SDA Minister Barry Black using prayer in tongues as a part of his evangelical presentation at a church where he is speaking. Clearly the person that has put together the video is not to happy about it, hence why they made and posted the video I suspect. In my case is nothing I would not expect to see at an AOG or similar Pentecostal church whenever they hold public meetings.

Yet I am interested in your thoughts on this issue, clearly the SDA allowed Ellen White the capacity to excersize the Spiritual Gift of Prophecy, so I am interested to see how the gift of tongues are received and used in SDA meetings? Is this something that happens from time to time or is this an isolated incidence?

http://youtu.be/DDbdqc5_UG0

The one who created that video included the Bible texts and the message from Ellen White on the subject of the fake gift of tongues that was demonstrated there.

We believe in Spiritual gifts - but what passes for the gift of tongues these days is not of God.

in Christ,

Bob

[Textus Receptus]

AMEN BOB!

[JoeMo]

I just listened to the video again. Unless the word "alleluia" has suddenly become glossolalia; I did NOT hear praying in tongues. I am around people alot that pray in tongues; and THAT was NOT praying in tongues. This is nothing but smear tactics.

Why do some "Christians" always have to find something or someone to attack? Does it make them feel better to imagine that they are better than some of the other blaspheming infidel heretic Jesuit New Theology undermining traitors out there?

[Woody]

Quote:

Is this something that happens from time to time or is this an isolated incidence?

Should I assume then that you are indeed passing this on as established 'fact'?

[cricket]

At 1:56-1:58 there is an audible moment where the speaker sounds as if he's saying, "sha-na-na-na bush-ka, sha-na-na-na bush-ka". I do believe this is the audio in question. To me, it looks at though he is speaking directly to the few people who are coming to surround him for the prayer. It's possible it's something in another language.

I'm sure Barry Black can explain.

[JoeMo]

Hi cricket,

I listened again; and I heard something very quiet between "alleulias" that could be what you posted; but my speakers are so lousy, I couldn't tell...

[debbym]

Quote:

clearly the SDA allowed Ellen White the capacity to excersize the Spiritual Gift of Prophecy,

sda's did not allow or disallow the spiritual gift of Prophecy.

It was under the authority of God that it happened.

we do not exercise spiritual gifts apart from God's working. they happen when God is wielding the truth in and through us, with our willing and understanding co-operation.

If ellen white was not willing to receive the visions God would not have given them. God doesn't force anything.

Quote:

Clearly the person that has put together the video is not to happy about it, hence why they made and posted the video I suspect. In my case is nothing I would not expect to see at an AOG or similar Pentecostal church whenever they hold public meetings.

do not underestimate the interest people have in criticising, gossipping, telling lies, anything that will get a public reaction. Especially when important people are involved. and Barry black has been in the national and global public eye with much favor. an even better target.

do you believe everything people say on the internet? have you been to snopes.

here is an elaborate hoax about a non sda pastor. pastor hoax

[Windsor]

He was possibly speaking another language but this certainly would not be classic for speaking in tongues in the pentecostal church tradition. If he wants to nip this one in the bud, he should explain what he was saying.

[ClubV12]

I guess we better not talk about the three or four times of early Adventist experiences with unknown tongues that confirmed Sabbath worship from 6 am to 6 pm when James, Ellen, Bates and others were present. Among other apparently divine incidents. They are a head scatcher. While Ellen White and company observed at least some of these incidents and were troubled by them, she never commented on them again, for or against (these specific incidents). Unknown tongues, as in, no known worldly language and interpretation offered by a second person.

She DID comment on tongues in general and wanted nothing to do with them.

...drags one of the family skeletons out of the closet, drops it on the living room floor, and walks out the door.

[Ted Oplinger]

I guess we better not talk about the three or four times of early Adventist experiences with unknown tongues that confirmed Sabbath worship from 6 am to 6 pm when James, Ellen, Bates and others were present. Among other apparently divine incidents. They are a head scatcher. While Ellen White and company observed at least some of these incidents and were troubled by them, she never commented on them again, for or against (these specific incidents). Unknown tongues, as in, no known worldly language and interpretation offered by a second person.

She DID comment on tongues in general and wanted nothing to do with them.

...drags one of the family skeletons out of the closet, drops it on the living room floor, and walks out the door.

...walks over to skeleton lying on living room floor, picks it up, goes over to door marked "family skeleton in closet - open for discussion", plops skeleton there, sweeps floor, figures everyone has them, and quietly walks away....

Blessings,

[BobRyan]

He was possibly speaking another language but this certainly would not be classic for speaking in tongues in the pentecostal church tradition. If he wants to nip this one in the bud, he should explain what he was saying.

I have heard a lot of the charismatic form of speaking in tongues and I have to admit - he sounds like he is doing it. But it is possible that it is actually some Australian or African native language that he is taking a snippet from that "just so happens" to have the same sound as the charismatic fake version of tongues.

Apparently someone on this board has figured out what language it is that sounds so much like the charismatic vanilla every-day version of tongues - and knows for certain this is not the charismatic event that it sounds like at first blush.

I hope they speak up.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

I guess we better not talk about the three or four times of early Adventist experiences with unknown tongues that confirmed Sabbath worship from 6 am to 6 pm when James, Ellen, Bates and others were present. Among other apparently divine incidents. They are a head scatcher. While Ellen White and company observed at least some of these incidents and were troubled by them, she never commented on them again, for or against (these specific incidents). Unknown tongues, as in, no known worldly language and interpretation offered by a second person.

She DID comment on tongues in general and wanted nothing to do with them.

In Acts 2 we see a legit form of speaking in tongues - as we see in 1Cor 14. Nobody is denying that there is a legitimate form or that the real deal is of God.

What is being denied (implied) is that the fake form we see among Charismatics today is not to be copied by SDAs - hence that video showing the quote from Ellen White where she flatly condemns that form.

in Christ,

Bob

[Ted Oplinger]

At 1:56-1:58 there is an audible moment where the speaker sounds as if he's saying, "sha-na-na-na bush-ka, sha-na-na-na bush-ka". I do believe this is the audio in question. To me, it looks at though he is speaking directly to the few people who are coming to surround him for the prayer. It's possible it's something in another language.

I'm sure Barry Black can explain.

Yep, those sounds are there, all right. He's NOT talking in tongues.

I had to watch, listen, and ponder upon the situation in the video, then compare that to the true and vivid examples of "tongues" I have seen.

Whoever did this hit piece does not know how the counterfeit tongues is used. While impressively put together, they nonetheless miss the entire point, and come across to me as merely someone trying to damage the integrity of Bro. Black's ministry.

In EVERY example I have seen and know about, the counterfeit manifests itself at either a "glory point" in the sermon - where the congregants' emotions are riding high, or during a "deep spiritual" prayer, where the congregants' minds are focused solely upon the spiritual. This is where the Deceiver uses the counterfeit to maximize the effect upon the psyche.

During an altar call? No. People are much too focused on moving about and getting to the front, for the counterfeit to exert its powerful influence. I doubt most of the people attending could even remember he mutter during the altar call after the service.

A wolf in sheep's clothing, indeed.

Blessings,