BobRyan Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Anyone with a logical understanding of the magnifinces of God will know that speaking in tongues is rubbish. Certainly that is true of the fake tongues. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted April 27, 2013 Members Share Posted April 27, 2013 My point of writing that I didn't think *this* particular topic was much of an issue, is that I am not of the opinion that Barry Black was speaking in tongues. I think the video was either intentionally edited or had an audio malfunction. Personally, I don't cotton to speaking gibberish as a form of praise or whatever (I actually think it's rather spooky), but if it floats someone else's boat, I'm not the one to pull the plug out of the bottom of their skiff. It might be the only thing that they feel is "connecting" them to God. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 My point of writing that I didn't think *this* particular topic was much of an issue, is that I am not of the opinion that Barry Black was speaking in tongues. I think the video was either intentionally edited or had an audio malfunction. I think space aliens stepped in and made his lips move to the many syllabled word da-sha-de-la-la-la-bosa. Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted April 27, 2013 Administrators Share Posted April 27, 2013 Yeah, the same ones that motivate other people to make sarcastic wise cracks that have the same meaningful value... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Amen, Tom! Pam, I appreciate the wisdom you bring here. You both are a blessing to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Textus Receptus Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Originally Posted By: Textus Receptus Anyone with a logical understanding of the magnifinces of God will know that speaking in tongues is rubbish. Certainly that is true of the fake tongues. in Christ, Bob Yes, of course. I was speaking of the eratic blah blah that some try to pass as an authentic experience. I never have understood why there is such a dichotomy regarding this subject. The bible never gives examples where speaking in tongues was used as a personal form of self glorfication. Secondly, the 'tongue' was always in a language which had already existed and never an unfamiliar tongue. Plain and simple. Yeah yeah I know this has been talked about 1000 times. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted April 29, 2013 Administrators Share Posted April 29, 2013 Quote: I never have understood why there is such a dichotomy regarding this subject. The bible never gives examples where speaking in tongues was used as a personal form of self glorification. the reason is that speaking in tongues as in glossolalia is not merely self glorification. it is an experience that gives an emotional release so profound that it is something regarded as what only God could do. the thinking processes are bypassed to an incredible release of energy, sometimes leaving the individual possibly exhausted, and in a state of having experienced "glory". and if you try to reason about it, you are regarded as bring down the glory of God to the smallness of the mind. i had a suitor for over a year who was involved with this, and learned a lot about it. this is a form of religious exercise that can happen in many different forms of religions not only christian. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Textus Receptus Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Quote: I never have understood why there is such a dichotomy regarding this subject. The bible never gives examples where speaking in tongues was used as a personal form of self glorification. the reason is that speaking in tongues as in glossolalia is not merely self glorification. it is an experience that gives an emotional release so profound that it is something regarded as what only God could do. the thinking processes are bypassed to an incredible release of energy, sometimes leaving the individual possibly exhausted, and in a state of having experienced "glory". and if you try to reason about it, you are regarded as bring down the glory of God to the smallness of the mind. i had a suitor for over a year who was involved with this, and learned a lot about it. this is a form of religious exercise that can happen in many different forms of religions not only christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Yeah, the same ones that motivate other people to make sarcastic wise cracks that have the same meaningful value... you proved my point - apparently anyone can make stuff up. Which is very possibly the heart and soul of the modern fake tongues. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Byers, N.D. Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 That is so weird. Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Perhaps the question that I raise is simply this, if Barry Black was in fact speaking in tongues in this video, is that a problem? Is he not permitted by the New Testament to speak in tongues if he wishes to, as long as its done in the way that the Bible says it must be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 On Youtube there is a video of an SDA Minister Barry Black using prayer in tongues as a part of his evangelical presentation at a church where he is speaking. Clearly the person that has put together the video is not to happy about it, hence why they made and posted the video I suspect. In my case is nothing I would not expect to see at an AOG or similar Pentecostal church whenever they hold public meetings. Yet I am interested in your thoughts on this issue, clearly the SDA allowed Ellen White the capacity to excersize the Spiritual Gift of Prophecy, Adventists do accept the continued gifts of the Spirit as stated in 1Cor 12 - and that includes tongues. However we reject the false/fake supposed "gift of tongues" so popular today - and which Barry Black was unwittingly engaged in. The real gift is actual known language and it is "for a sign to UNBELIEVERS" 1Cor 14. Gobbeldy-jumble-jibberish is not a "sign to unbelievers" according to 1Co 14 but rather it causes them to think that your worship is a farce. So this fake demonstration helps no one in the kingdom of God. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Quote: Adventists do accept the continued gifts of the Spirit as stated in 1Cor 12 - and that includes tongues.However we reject the false/fake supposed "gift of tongues" so popular today Bob, I disagree with your point above, for reasons I have stated previously in many threads. But what else is new? I disagree with a lot of your statements. We have people in our church (including me) who have a gift of tongues that spontaneously came upon us while we were praying for the Holy Spirit to come. I'm not saying it's genuine or counterfeit; but I will say it is an extremely intense emotional and spiritual experience. It can leave you either exhausted or totally energized. Also, when our former pastor (who also has the gift) learned of it, we were strongly advised to never use the gift in public worship because so many people do find it creepy (until it happens to them; then they find it amazing). If it has never happened to you, you have no authority or any experience that qualifies you to call it genuine or counterfeit. Neither does the SDA church or EGW without explicit scriptural back-up. I find nowhere in scripture that condemns the practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Bob's statement is accurate JoeMo. The official Seventh-day Adventist Church position on tongues does not accept the type of gift of tongues you report. The commonly accepted form of tongues that, as Bob noted, is "popular today". Your opinion that the Church is wrong is noted, your disagreement on this issue is with the Church's official position, Bob's just the messenger. I believe the Seventh-day Adventist Church does in fact have experience in this matter and speaks with authority from that experience. It is an issue the Church has been involved with, studied as a body of believers and looked into since the pioneer days of it's founders. Obviously not everyone agrees with the official position, just as I don't agree with many of the doctrines of the Mormon church. To determine what is and what isn't correct doctrine does not mean one needs to be directly involved. I don't need to go a sooth sayer/magic man/Budhist or directly experience something personally to determine whether it be of God or some other spirit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted October 9, 2013 Members Share Posted October 9, 2013 Also, when our former pastor (who also has the gift) learned of it, we were strongly advised to never use the gift in public worship because so many people do find it creepyThis part of your post is very interesting JoeMo! Because from my reading about this in the Bible it looks to me that this is the way it should work, out in public! As was done at Pentecost. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Quote: If it has never happened to you, you have no authority or any experience that qualifies you to call it genuine or counterfeit. Neither does the SDA church or EGW without explicit scriptural back-up. I find nowhere in scripture that condemns the practice. " You will be giving thanks, very well. For if you praise God only in the spirit, how can those who don’t understand you praise God along with you? How can they join you in giving thanks when they don’t understand what you are saying? very well, but it won’t strengthen the people who hear you. I thank God that I speak in tongues more than any of you. But in a church meeting I would rather speak five understandable words to help others than ten thousand words in an unknown language. Dear brothers and sisters, don’t be childish in your understanding of these things. Be innocent as babies when it comes to evil, but be mature in understanding matters of this kind. It is written in the Scriptures: “I will speak to my own people through strange languages and through the lips of foreigners. But even then, they will not listen to me,” says the Lord. So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers. "1 Corinthians 14:17-22 NLT underlined mine LHC It doesn't seem to be forbidden, but it does show the interest of the person speaking is only interested in serving themselves and identifies that either the hearer or the speaker as an unbeliever." The apostle Paul also gives instruction for the language (tongue) to be accompanied by an interpreter when used among the congregation. "Well, my brothers and sisters, let’s summarize. When you meet together, one will sing, another will teach, another will tell some special revelation God has given, one will speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must strengthen all of you. No more than two or three should speak in tongues. They must speak one at a time, and someone must interpret what they say. But if no one is present who can interpret, they must be silent in your church meeting and speak in tongues to God privately. Let two or three people prophesy, and let the others evaluate what is said. But if someone is prophesying and another person receives a revelation from the Lord, the one who is speaking must stop. In this way, all who prophesy will have a turn to speak, one after the other, so that everyone will learn and be encouraged."1 Cor 14:26-31 NLT God cares! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted October 10, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 10, 2013 sojouner, this guy on this video did not speak in tongues, it is a drama ploy to even suggest this. glossolalia as practiced in modern Christianity has nothing to do with spreading the gospel in many different tongues, and is a utterance performed by many kinds of religious and spiritualistic groups. Paul admonitioned, "hold fast the form of sound words." Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted October 10, 2013 Members Share Posted October 10, 2013 I agree debbym. I didn't see that either. The real test would be to ask Pastor Black directly. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted October 10, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 10, 2013 Quote: The real test would be to ask Pastor Black directly. This isn't the first time this has made the rounds. However, to ask him directly could well take the sensationalism from the accusations. Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted October 10, 2013 Members Share Posted October 10, 2013 This isn't the first time this has made the rounds. However, to ask him directly could well take the sensationalism from the accusations. Exactly, seems where more interested in either accusing or just plain miss representing what was actually being said. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Gerhard Hasel warned that this was coming before he died in `94. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Bob, I disagree with your point above, for reasons I have stated previously in many threads. But what else is new? I disagree with a lot of your statements. We have people in our church (including me) who have a gift of tongues that spontaneously came upon us while we were praying for the Holy Spirit to come. I'm not saying it's genuine or counterfeit; but I will say it is an extremely intense emotional and spiritual experience. It can leave you either exhausted or totally energized. I am not claiming that there is no such thing as that fake gift - I am just saying that it does not stack up to what the Bible says the real gift of tongues actually is. Ellen White stated that it is a tongue that is unknown to men and to angels - and to God Himself. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted October 10, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 10, 2013 Gerhard Hasel warned that this was coming before he died in `94. It appears his warnings were spot on! The closer we come to Christ's second coming, the more we will have to be alert to which spirit is the true spirit. Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Quote: it does show the interest of the person speaking is only interested in serving themselves Well, I don't know if I'd put it that way. I will admit that having a prayer language is very self-edifying; and IMO brings the presence of the spirit of God into my heart. That being said, I would propose that It's too bad the church forbids (or at least strongly discourages) the use of a prayer language. Quoting form the end of 1 Cor. 14, Paul says: Quote: Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Textus Receptus Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Quote: it does show the interest of the person speaking is only interested in serving themselves Well, I don't know if I'd put it that way. I will admit that having a prayer language is very self-edifying; and IMO brings the presence of the spirit of God into my heart. That being said, I would propose that It's too bad the church forbids (or at least strongly discourages) the use of a prayer language. Quoting form the end of 1 Cor. 14, Paul says: Quote: Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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