2016 US Presidential Election - Should Ben Carson Run For President?

[Arwen]

Just wondering . . .

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/pol...n-for-president

Please answer the poll(s) and give your comments.

Thanks.

[phkrause]

So who is actually speaking for Mr Carson? Because if I'm not mistaken, I don't recall him saying he would run, and no one that knows him has ever heard him say he'd be interested.

Also all the truly good people that I know want no part of politics! Oh they might speak out against this and that, but when it comes right down to it they want no part of a system that can't or wont be fixed. There's nothing wrong with standing up for what you believe, and that's exactly what Dr Ben Carson did. And from my point of view he's better off doing that than actually running for president.

I'm not sure that an Adventist would even want to take on such a big responsibility of being president of this country, be he a democrat or republican, or even an independent.

[Arwen]

So who is actually speaking for Mr Carson? Because if I'm not mistaken, I don't recall him saying he would run, and no one that knows him has ever heard him say he'd be interested.

According to the article: Dr. Ben Carson May Consider 2016 Run for President

Dr Carson said this to the New York Times,

I quote:

Still enjoying the afterglow from his speech at a prayer breakfast with President Obama wherein he chastised the political ideals that the president holds dear and, according to the New York Times , “lofted him into the conservative firmament as its newest star,” Dr. Benjamin Carson (shown center) sat down with Times writer Trip Gabriel last week to expand on his beliefs and his political future. When asked directly about that future, Carson said, “I would like to have a voice.” He added: “Certainly if a year and a half went by and there was no one on the scene and people are still clamoring, I would have to take that into consideration. I would never turn my back on my fellow citizens.”

[phkrause]

“Certainly if a year and a half went by and there was no one on the scene and people are still clamoring, I would have to take that into consideration. I would never turn my back on my fellow citizens.”

As this statement shows, he never says he "will run" he says "if" there is no one. Now how likely is that? So as I see it a very safe comment!

[Arwen]

PKRAUSE and DGRIMM60

I agree. I don’t think anyone has said that he will.

The questions I asked are with reference to the article: Dr. Carson May Consider 2016 Run for President . Therefore my “Should?” and “If?” questions are simply asking CA members opinions.

Sorry for any confusion.

There seems to be a difference in semantics?

Perhaps I should have made it clearer and said,

Hypothetically:

Should Ben Carson run for President?

If Ben Carson decides to run would you volunteer to help his campaign?

If Ben Carson decides to run would you vote for him?

[Arwen]

ok

[Arwen]

Some interesting links:

Wikipedia: Ben Carson’s publicly expressed interest is mentioned on Wikipedia

The New York Times: Neurosurgeon’s Speeches Have Conservatives Dreaming of 2016

The Wall Street Journal: Ben Carson for President

The Washington Post: Watch this short (5 min) interview on Fox News as reported in the Washington Post

Opinion Forum: Dr. Benjamin Carson – Two Inspiring Videos about our Next President?

Facebook: Some (unofficial) Ben Carson for President Facebook pages

Draft Dr. Benjamin Carson for President

Dr. Ben Carson for President

and

Facebook: Dr. Ben Carson’s Official Facebook page

[Kevin H]

It would be nice if he was to run. However I do not believe that it would be possible because I understand him to be an honest man, Adventist views on Religious freedom stand in his way.

Growing over the 20th century the office of the Presidency has moved away from what the constitution describes to a puppetry for the Super Rich (the 200 families that own everything. See the book "The Rich and the Super Rich"), They own the Federal Reserve and run the Council on foreign relations, we can call them the Globalists. They have been gaining power over the 20th century. They put Hitler into power and supported Nazism, but when Germany lost World War II they began to focus more on the United States. President Eisenhower warned against the power they were developing before he left office. John Kennedy was the last honestly elected president and by the next campaign was replaced by a man who was firmly a supporter of this group. I am not positive but the Johnson - Goldwater campaign was probably the last two party presidential election. Since then both candidates have been pre-selected by this group and giving us an illusion of a 2 party election, with all but Ronald Reagan actually being insiders to this group. When Reagan survived an assignation attempt by the son of one of his vice president's business associates, he just began playing by their rules. I use to be very critical of Reagan, and would lament that George Bush Sr. spent 12 years as Ronald Reagan's Vice President. However I now understand that he probably spent 12 years as president, eight of them with a front man, and I wonder how much of Reagan's Alzheimer's came from the guilt of choosing to cave into the globalists.

We have had some honest people who are not a part of this group who have been constitutionalists rather than globalists that have tried to run: Ralph Nader, Dennis Kucinich, Gary Johnson, Ron Paul, Patrick Buchanan, however the press down plays their campaigns and credibility as candidates. If Ben was to run he will either be placed on this list, or else he would be in the position of Kennedy and Reagan, play with us or else the vice president that we give you will become president. The only other option is to simply join with them and carry on the policies of Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama.

I understand the globalists to be the 7th head of the beast of Revelation. Now if Dr. Ben would run, I'd gladly support him as I did Nader, Kucinich, Johnson and Paul, and would have supported Buchanan had I understood him better, especially if Dr. Ben was to join this group in being constitutionalists rather than globalist. If he does run as a globalist, I would say that one of our brightest lights have gone out.

Now Dr. Ben may be very useful in the house or senate. I'd love to see him in the White House, except that the White House is now off limits to active non-globalists and to get there he would either have to join the 7th head, play with them or be one of our Presidents to die in office.

[Arwen]

Here is a little bit of the SDA Church’s Declaration on Church-State Relations:

Quote:

Participation in Government

The Seventh-day Adventist Church is mindful of the long history of the involvement of the people of God in civil affairs. Joseph wielded civil power in Egypt. Similarly, Daniel rose to the heights of civil power in Babylon and the nation was benefited as a result. In our own church history, Adventists have joined with other religious and secular organizations to exert influence over civil authorities to cease slavery and to advance the cause of religious freedom. Religious influence has not always resulted in the betterment of society, however. Religious persecution, religious wars, and the numerous examples of social and political suppression perpetrated at the behest of religious people, confirms the dangers that exist when the means of the state are used to advance religious objectives.

The growth of the Seventh-day Adventist Church has resulted in a corresponding growth in our ability to exert political influence in some areas of the world. This political influence is not in itself problematic. Indeed, Adventists may properly aspire to serve in positions of civil leadership. Nevertheless, we must remain ever mindful of the dangers that are associated with religious influence on civil affairs and assiduously avoid such dangers.

When Adventists become leaders or exert influence in their wider society, this should be done in a manner consistent with the golden rule. We should therefore work to establish robust religious liberty for all and should not use our influence with political and civil leaders to either advance our faith or inhibit the faith of others. Adventists should take civic responsibilities seriously. We should participate in the voting process available to us when it is possible to do so in good conscience and should share the responsibility of building our communities. Adventists should not, however, become preoccupied with politics, or utilize the pulpit or our publications to advance political theories.

Adventists who are civic leaders must endeavor to adhere to the highest standards of Christian behavior. As modern-day Daniels, God will lead them and their fidelity to Him will inspire their community.

The rest of this document is here .

[Kountzer]

Carson would have to turn his back on the adventist church in order to run for President. He would have to join some biblically milk toast but politically connect church like the presbyterians on something.

If you think the media jumped on Obama's former Pastor, (can't remember his name) that would be nothing compared to what they would do to doctrines like the sabbath, the mark of the beast, the beast, america in prophecy, the sanctuary, etc. They would have a field day.

[phkrause]

True, but it would put us right out there, in the fore front.

[Arwen]

And here is The SDA Church's Statement on Religious Freedom

Quote:

For more than a century Seventh-day Adventists have been active promoters of religious freedom. We recognize the need to champion freedom of conscience and religion as a fundamental human right, in harmony with the instruments of the United Nations.

The Seventh-day Adventist Church has a presence in 209 countries. With some exceptions, however, Adventists constitute a religious minority, and have at times been subject to restrictions and discrimination. Consequently, they have felt it necessary to stand up for human rights.

As loyal citizens, Adventists believe they have the right to freedom of religion, subject to the equal rights of others. This implies the freedom to meet for instruction and worship, to worship on the seventh day of the week (Saturday), and to disseminate religious views by public preaching, or through the media. This freedom further includes the right to change one's religion, as well as to respectfully invite others to do so. Every person has a right to demand consideration whenever conscience does not allow the performance of certain public duties, such as requiring the bearing of arms. Whenever churches are given access to public media, Adventists should in all fairness be included.

We will continue to cooperate and network with others to defend the religious liberty of all people, including those with whom we may disagree.

Source: Adventist.org

[Arwen]

Here is a free sample of Ben Carson's book:

America the Beautiful: Rediscovering What Made This Nation Great

This free sample contains the book's contents page, prologue, chapter 1 and chapter 2.

Source: Zondervan.com

[Arwen]

Ben Carson Interview on:

Life Today – with James and Betty Robison - Monday, May 6 2013

Land of Opportunity: Ben Carson author of ‘America the Beautiful’ tells his story of a perilous childhood and the decisions that enabled him to become a successful neurosurgeon.

Video

Audio mp3

Transcript pdf

[OzarkWoman]

Carson would have to turn his back on the adventist church in order to run for President. He would have to join some biblically milk toast but politically connect church like the presbyterians on something.

Why? Because some idiot leaders said so? He should be able to do as he likes and the denomination should get over it. I am sick of the stuff I see even more as every day goes by by the SDA denomination. Just another reason why I no longer attend church. I have had it and just another reason why any organized religion is BS.

[Arwen]

Ben Carson Interview (Part 2) on:

Life Today – with James and Betty Robison - Tuesday, May 7 2013

America the Beautiful : Ben Carson neurosurgeon, and author of ‘America the Beautiful’, shares what he believes makes America great.

Video

Audio mp3

Transcript pdf

[Arwen]

Ben Carson Interview (Part 3) on:

Life Today – with James and Betty Robison - Thursday, May 9 2013

Restoring a Nation : Ben Carson, neurosurgeon and author of ‘America the Beautiful’, explores proven and practical solutions to many of America’s pressing problems.

Video

Audio mp3

Transcript pdf

[Textus Receptus]

wouldn't the President of The United States have to work on the Sabbath? Really, a SDA president who would have to answer to the Jesuitical agencies? Yeah right. Good luck with this one PACs.

[Woody]

I am thinking Ben would be a great President. I hope he does it.

I will surely vote for him.

And what a great witness for the SDA church.

[phkrause]

wouldn't the President of The United States have to work on the Sabbath? Really, a SDA president who would have to answer to the Jesuitical agencies? Yeah right. Good luck with this one PACs.

If you recall the Jewish Senator from Conn. was gonna take the Sabbath's off, but said that if it required him to come in on the sabbath, he said he would. So I'd say that a SDA president could or would do the same. We have SDA nurses, Docs, Policemen, etc., all that work when required on the Sabbath.

[Textus Receptus]

Originally Posted By: Textus Receptus

wouldn't the President of The United States have to work on the Sabbath? Really, a SDA president who would have to answer to the Jesuitical agencies? Yeah right. Good luck with this one PACs.

If you recall the Jewish Senator from Conn. was gonna take the Sabbath's off, but said that if it required him to come in on the sabbath, he said he would. So I'd say that a SDA president could or would do the same. We have SDA nurses, Docs, Policemen, etc., all that work when required on the Sabbath.

I understand that many choose to work on the Sabbath, yet the SDA church has established critera for doing so. For the most part, the delineated criteria relates to the health profession. As of know I do not believe that the SDA has made any concessions for those who choose politics or government organizations that are non-medical.

If I am wrong, I certainly wouldn't mind being shown evidence to the contrary. It can be easily suggested that a policeman is required to uphold the laws of Man while breaking the law of God. The same could be said about a politician who is hired to craft laws of man on the Sabbath while ignoring the Law of God.

Logically speaking, how can a policeman witness about keeping the Sabbath while he or she is working. The same could be said of Doctors or nurses yet at SDA hospitals make ministry a very important part of the healing process and therefore are a witness for God. I am not privy to how SDA doctor and nurses are compensated at SDA medical facilities, yet I would assume even this is taken into consideration.

History notes that the Council of Trent failed as a result of the Sabbath issue. Just because a policeman is doing "good" does not mean he is witnessing. A budhist policiman can be just as 'good' but he is not glorifying God.

I just don't believe from my understanding of scripture that working on the Sabbath can be rationalized away because the "world" wants them to; especially professions which are overtly corrupt and geared to the benefit of Rome. Furthermore, a Congressman stating that he would work on the Sabbath is his personal opinnion, of which I personally believe is wrong. Mind you, contemporary Judism with any exceptions is not the SDA church. As a member of the SDA church, we recognize that our sole authority is God, as such, we in good conscience cannot choose a profession that would put us in a position that would require us to break the 4th commandment of God. Perhaps this is one of the reasons that the SDA do not have Law Schools as it could potentially create too much entanglement with the world for its graduates?

[joeb]

I understand that many choose to work on the Sabbath, yet the SDA church has established critera for doing so. For the most part, the delineated criteria relates to the health profession. As of know I do not believe that the SDA has made any concessions for those who choose politics or government organizations that are non-medical.

Do I understand you correctly?

You're saying the church sets the rules for the individual's conscience concerning their behavior? Really? Since when has the church become the rule of conscience?

I've always thought my standard of behavior, and my rule of conscience, was between me and God. Now you tell me it's the church rather than God?

[Arwen]

Tuesday, 21 May

Dr. Benjamin Carson speaks at the 2013 Commercial Carriers Journal Spring Symposium in Birmingham, Alabama

Quote:

Carson says education and speaking freely will save U.S. from downfall

Up and coming conservative star and motivational speaker Dr. Benjamin Carson delivered a message on self-reliance, positivity and the importance of education Tuesday, May 21, as a kickoff to the 2013 CCJ Spring Symposium in Birmingham, Ala.

Carson — a neurosurgeon who grew up in dire poverty but worked his way to the director of the neurosurgery department at John Hopkins Hospital — talked early and often about what he called Americans’ fear of speaking their minds and expressing themselves in regards to personal and political convictions. “There are only two alternatives” to “saving our nation,” Carson said: “Continue to be silent and intimidated and go down the tubes like everybody else (former world superpowers) or revolt.”

“Revolt” used in a more intellectual sense, Carson said. “I’m not talking about getting guns and running in the street and shooting people. I’m talking about not submitting to the political correctness police and being willing to stand up for what people actually believe in.”

Carson said the U.S. should take note of what doomed former dominant nations like ancient Egypt, Greece, Rome, France and Britain and try to avoid following a similar path.

Much like the sometimes trial-and-error aspect of the medical field and building upon learning from mistakes and failures, Carson said, the U.S. must do the same. “Some people say [falling] cannot happen to the U.S., but it’s already in the process,” Carson said. “Can we learn from before and take corrective action or will we go down the same path of self-destruction? The answer lies with each one of us and our spheres of influence.”

“We’ve become very docile, very sheep-like,” he added. “We may not agree with something but we’re afraid to say anything. That will lead to disaster.”

Caron and his siblings were raised by their single mother in the inner city areas of Detroit and Boston. Though the family was very poor, Carson says his mother refused to receive government assistance, because, he says, “She used to say ‘I don’t know anybody who went on welfare and came off of it.’ So she didn’t want to go on it to start with. She said ‘I’ll do it myself.’”

His mother pushed him to learn and do well in school by demanding him to read at least two books a week and turn in two book reports to her each week. “Everybody else was outside having a good time, but we were inside reading books,” Carson said. “But a strange phenomenon started to happen. I began to enjoy reading the books. Between the covers of those books I could go anywhere and be anybody and do anything.”

Education and knowledge are keys to not only personal empowerment, but to continuing to not only preserve the United States but to also preserve the innovative spirit that Carson said built the strongest country in the world and the strongest middle class in the history of the world.

However, the U.S. is currently being bested by other countries in terms of education and personal development. For instance, the U.S. produces about 70,000 engineers each year, and 30 percent of them are from foreign countries, Carson said. “They go back to other places and compete with the U.S,” he says. China, on the other hand, produces 400,000 engineers a year.

“If you stop and think what’s going on here, we have a major problem,” Carson says. “Our populace is becoming less educated. Information is really one of the major keys to saving our nation.”

“Educational strength” was the key to the U.S. becoming the immense superpower it is, Carson said. Moreover, the very system of government that formed the U.S. is “based on a well-educated and informed populace,” he said.

“The people that founded this nation” knew “if the populace every becomes other than that the nature of our nation will change,” Caron said. “When people become uninformed they’ll fall for anything. All you need is somebody with a silver tongue to start talking.” That — and visiting schools in which athletics were celebrated and intellectualism went essentially unrewarded — spurred he and his wife to start the Carson Scholarship Fund to reward students for working hard in school and showing good nature toward others. The scholarship fund awarded 5,600 scholarships in the last year.

Carson said the U.S. is at a crossroads determining “what kind of country” it’s going to be, pointing to modern liberal policies as ones that are pushing the U.S. “value system rapidly down hill.”

“Are we going to be for, of and by the people or for, of and by the government?” Carson asked, adding that the creation of the U.S. spurred humanity to move from agrarian-based lifestyle to one built on innovation and advancement.

“Less than 200 years after the advent of this country we had a man walking on the moon,” he said. “Because the benefits of innovation were here. We need the kind of leadership that brings those things back. We need to start thinking about doing things differently by thinking outside of the box.”

Carson said the U.S. should institute a taxation system based on proportionality, in which everyone pays the same percentage of their income. “The problem with the way we do taxing is you have at least half the population that doesn’t pay much of anything,” he said. “And they get a say in how much other people pay? Is that fair? Does that make any sense at all?”

Carson closed his address by saying he pushes a “THINK BIG” pneumonic device for personal motivation. The T stands for talent, Carson said, “That God gave to everybody,” referring to “intellectual talent.”

The H stands for honesty and “living a clean and honest life” and “not putting skeletons in your closet,” Carson said. “The I is for insight. Listen to people who’ve gone where you want to go. Learn from their triumphs. Learn from their mistakes.”

“N is for being nice to people. You get so much more done when you’re being nice.”

The K stands for knowledge, as “that’s the thing that makes you into a more valuable person,” Carson said. “B is for books, which are the mechanism for obtaining knowledge.”

The second I stands for “in-depth knowledge,” he said, which means learning and educating for the sake of understanding and learning and not for doing well on a test. “And the G is for God, who is becoming politically incorrect in our society.” Carson said the country is based upon Judeo-Christian values and people should do the same.

“It’s OK to live by Godly principles of loving your fellow man and loving your neighbor and having values and principles that guide your life,” Carson said. “If we do that not only will we remain a pinnacle nation, but we will have one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

During a brief question and answer session following his speech, he did not rule out running for president in 2016, if he feels guided to do so, but said that he is glad he’s retiring from medicine before the implementation of Obamacare.

He also pointed to health insurance as one of the main problems with the healthcare industry today. He’s a big proponent of health savings accounts for individuals, which would cover 80 percent of patient-provider encounters, he said. The other 20 percent would be covered by bridge or some type of catastrophy insurance.

“We’ve learned a lot from this Obamacare stuff,” he said. “If we can put our collective heads together and thing logically, not only can we save this nation but our best days can be ahead.”

Source: ccjdigital.com

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Textus Receptus

I understand that many choose to work on the Sabbath, yet the SDA church has established critera for doing so. For the most part, the delineated criteria relates to the health profession. As of know I do not believe that the SDA has made any concessions for those who choose politics or government organizations that are non-medical.

Do I understand you correctly?

You're saying the church sets the rules for the individual's conscience concerning their behavior? Really? Since when has the church become the rule of conscience?

I've always thought my standard of behavior, and my rule of conscience, was between me and God. Now you tell me it's the church rather than God?

I definitely agree joeb. My wife used to work Sabbaths, because she thought she was taking care of sick people and this is what God wanted her to do. As the years went by she decided that she didn't need to work Sabbaths anymore because there were plenty of non-Sabbath keepers to take care of patients on Sabbath. Than she went to work on in a hospital floor where there was a shortage of RNs so she started working Sabbaths again. Each time she made the decission to work or not, she made it with careful pray between her and God.

[Textus Receptus]

Originally Posted By: Textus Receptus

I understand that many choose to work on the Sabbath, yet the SDA church has established critera for doing so. For the most part, the delineated criteria relates to the health profession. As of know I do not believe that the SDA has made any concessions for those who choose politics or government organizations that are non-medical.

Do I understand you correctly?

You're saying the church sets the rules for the individual's conscience concerning their behavior? Really? Since when has the church become the rule of conscience?

I've always thought my standard of behavior, and my rule of conscience, was between me and God. Now you tell me it's the church rather than God?

The SDA church only reflects what scripture has stated in scripture.

Subjectivity is a dangerous ingredient. I could just as say that I could peddle wheatgrass juice at a juice bar for people's health to overt cancer or aid in their healing if they in fact have cancer.

http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/other-documents/other-doc6.html