2016 US Presidential Election - Should Ben Carson Run For President?

[joeb]

I definitely agree joeb. My wife used to work Sabbaths, because she thought she was taking care of sick people and this is what God wanted her to do. As the years went by she decided that she didn't need to work Sabbaths anymore because there were plenty of non-Sabbath keepers to take care of patients on Sabbath. Than she went to work on in a hospital floor where there was a shortage of RNs so she started working Sabbaths again. Each time she made the decission to work or not, she made it with careful pray between her and God.

As an HVAC service tech I worked on Sabbath sometimes. If I was on call and it was cold when people called with no heat, I went and fixed the problem. If it was really hot during the summer time and someone had a health problem, I went and fixed their air conditioning.

If someone called Friday afternoon, after knowing they had a problem all week long, that was a different story, once again depending on circumstances.

My religion has never been an excuse for someone else to suffer. In fact, my religion forbids me from rendering help when it is needed.

[phkrause]

Logically speaking, how can a policeman witness about keeping the Sabbath while he or she is working. The same could be said of Doctors or nurses yet at SDA hospitals make ministry a very important part of the healing process and therefore are a witness for God. I am not privy to how SDA doctor and nurses are compensated at SDA medical facilities, yet I would assume even this is taken into consideration.

Bolded the part I'm responding to. My wife, being a nurse for 40+ years before breaking or back and retiring, only witness, maybe one or two doctors or nurses that ever did what your saying here. But we've seen many a police officer, fireman, etc., do more witnessing than SDA doc or rns. Having said that, I don't include all SDA Doc & RN, because obviously there are some that do.

[Textus Receptus]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

I definitely agree joeb. My wife used to work Sabbaths, because she thought she was taking care of sick people and this is what God wanted her to do. As the years went by she decided that she didn't need to work Sabbaths anymore because there were plenty of non-Sabbath keepers to take care of patients on Sabbath. Than she went to work on in a hospital floor where there was a shortage of RNs so she started working Sabbaths again. Each time she made the decission to work or not, she made it with careful pray between her and God.

As an HVAC service tech I worked on Sabbath sometimes. If I was on call and it was cold when people called with no heat, I went and fixed the problem. If it was really hot during the summer time and someone had a health problem, I went and fixed their air conditioning.

If someone called Friday afternoon, after knowing they had a problem all week long, that was a different story, once again depending on circumstances.

My religion has never been an excuse for someone else to suffer. In fact, my religion forbids me from rendering help when it is needed.

And I suppose you give your earnings as a free will offering to the church. Sorry guy, but it doesnt stand up to biblical scrutiny.

[phkrause]

As an HVAC service tech I worked on Sabbath sometimes. If I was on call and it was cold when people called with no heat, I went and fixed the problem. If it was really hot during the summer time and someone had a health problem, I went and fixed their air conditioning.

If someone called Friday afternoon, after knowing they had a problem all week long, that was a different story, once again depending on circumstances.

My religion has never been an excuse for someone else to suffer. In fact, my religion forbids me from rendering help when it is needed.

I do recall a plummer, who would, on Sabbath after Church, go and fix peoples plumbing, with no charge, who could not afford to have it done. At least that's what I recall him posting some years back.

[joeb]

And I suppose you give your earnings as a free will offering to the church. Sorry guy, but it doesnt stand up to biblical scrutiny.

Ah, yes. I can pull my ox out of ditch it its life is in danger on Sabbath, but if my fellow man needs help on the same day I must tell them no. Yes, it does seem as if I've read that in the Bible somewhere....

[Textus Receptus]

Originally Posted By: joeb

As an HVAC service tech I worked on Sabbath sometimes. If I was on call and it was cold when people called with no heat, I went and fixed the problem. If it was really hot during the summer time and someone had a health problem, I went and fixed their air conditioning.

If someone called Friday afternoon, after knowing they had a problem all week long, that was a different story, once again depending on circumstances.

My religion has never been an excuse for someone else to suffer. In fact, my religion forbids me from rendering help when it is needed.

I do recall a plummer, who would, on Sabbath after Church, go and fix peoples plumbing, with no charge, who could not afford to have it done. At least that's what I recall him posting some years back.

Well, a helping plumber working for free on the sabbath is a different matter. If it involves not being surrounded by exrement and urine, its a hygiene and health issue which I believe God allows. But if its only so that you can water your grass? Its all context.

[joeb]

Originally Posted By: joeb

As an HVAC service tech I worked on Sabbath sometimes. If I was on call and it was cold when people called with no heat, I went and fixed the problem. If it was really hot during the summer time and someone had a health problem, I went and fixed their air conditioning.

If someone called Friday afternoon, after knowing they had a problem all week long, that was a different story, once again depending on circumstances.

My religion has never been an excuse for someone else to suffer. In fact, my religion forbids me from rendering help when it is needed.

I do recall a plummer, who would, on Sabbath after Church, go and fix peoples plumbing, with no charge, who could not afford to have it done. At least that's what I recall him posting some years back.

Thanks. I've done that when it wasn't Sabbath too. I bought the parts at wholesale from my boss, and donated my labor, quite a few times when the people were elderly and just couldn't afford to pay the bill on a fixed income. You've never seen bigger smiles, along with a few tears, and more grateful people. It way more than made up for the money I "missed out on".

Doing something for others is its own reward.

[phkrause]

Thanks. I've done that when it wasn't Sabbath too. I bought the parts at wholesale from my boss, and donated my labor, quite a few times when the people were elderly and just couldn't afford to pay the bill on a fixed income. You've never seen bigger smiles, along with a few tears, and more grateful people. It way more than made up for the money I "missed out on".

Doing something for others is its own reward.

Absolutely.

[Textus Receptus]

Originally Posted By: Textus Receptus

And I suppose you give your earnings as a free will offering to the church. Sorry guy, but it doesnt stand up to biblical scrutiny.

Ah, yes. I can pull my ox out of ditch it its life is in danger on Sabbath, but if my fellow man needs help on the same day I must tell them no. Yes, it does seem as if I've read that in the Bible somewhere....

HIS ox. HIS is the operative word. He was not going to be compensated for removing his OWN ox. We are stewards of our animals. If it were a tractor, using logical reasoning stemming from the bible, He would say leave it until sundown.

Again, did you or do you donate your earnings to the church as a freewill offering? If you didn't or don't sure sounds like you are trying to use a flimsy loophole for working on the sabbath to add to your income. But then again, we have the example of blood money and the potter's field so accepting any type of compensation is wrong. Even the Israel nation with all of their faults in part understood this concept Its character, not semantics.

[Tom Wetmore]

Regarding the idea of donated money earned from Sabbath work, a pastor works on Sabbath (often more than on other days). Should he donate at least 1/7 of his salary? Should a farmer donate the money from the milk his cows produce on the Sabbath? Or the rancher, the calves delivered on the Sabbath day? How about an author, should he ask for an accounting from publishers and retailers of all sales of his book on the Sabbath so that he can donate the royalties from those sales? Should we ask that the interest earned on a savings account over the Sabbath be donated?

Regarding the supposed need of an emergency to do good on the Sabbath - that is not what Jesus did or taught. It was specifically pointed out to him that the ones he healed on the Sabbath could have waited until sundown to be healed since they had been unwell for a very long time. Jesus healed them on the Sabbath anyway. He actually went out of his way to find peopel to heal on the Sabbath, sick man by the pool for example. No emergency there. The man had been that way for years.

Regarding the police or a soldier during wartime - do criminals and the enemy take Sabbath off? Consider the God sanctioned wars in Scripture. Did any of them stop for a Sabbath break? God told the Israelites to march around Jericho each day for seven days. One of those days had to have been Sabbath. A strict reading suggests that the walls fell on Sabbath, the seventh day.

[Jeannieb43]

Getting back to the topic which is the heading for this thread, I voted No on the opinion polls in the OP. Not because I dislike Ben Carson, but because [based on his speech which I watched here on C/A a few weeks ago] I would hate to see him, as a political naif, be "thrown to the lions" of opposing campaigners and the press such as that which occurs in a political campaign. I think he would have no stomach for a vicious fight such as he'd face.

I actually feel it's a moot point anyway. I doubt he'd want to seriously consider it.

Or at least I hope he wouldn't. His life is full of other claims to fame.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

In fact, my religion forbids me from (declining) rendering help when it is needed.

I'm sure you meant the inclusion of the parenthetical green word.

God cares!

[phkrause]

Getting back to the topic which is the heading for this thread, I voted No on the opinion polls in the OP. Not because I dislike Ben Carson, but because [based on his speech which I watched here on C/A a few weeks ago] I would hate to see him, as a political naif, be "thrown to the lions" of opposing campaigners and the press such as that which occurs in a political campaign. I think he would have no stomach for a vicious fight such as he'd face.

I actually feel it's a moot point anyway. I doubt he'd want to seriously consider it.

Or at least I hope he wouldn't. His life is full of other claims to fame.

[Tom Wetmore]

I do agree with what you have said, Jeannie. Not that I don't think that my friend Ben doesn't have much needed qualities for presidential leadership, nor that I disagree with some of his political views. I would just hate to see him put through that meat grinder. But more importantly, to win he would have sell his soul to the devil, so to speak, in terms of the political compromise that seems to always take place. That changes a person. And I am afraid it would change him in ways that would diminish his talents and effectiveness as a very positive influence for moral good, achievement and motivation to young people to dream big and go after those dreams.

But regardless, the sidetrack about the Sabbath wasn't IMHO so much off topic. This has often been an obstacle for Adventists in pursuing public service and other types of careers. The range of options for Adventists is limited, and more so with the more strictly one views Sabbath keeping. So my questions at least, were intended to provoke some serious thought beyond the typical simplistic dogmatism we are all so familiar with. Apparently Jesus considered the Jewish thinking regarding the Sabbath to have been on the wrong path. But we as Adventists really have not done much differently. And at times I think we have outdone even our spiritual ancestors of Israel in turning the Sabbath into something it was never intended to be.

So how might rethinking that flawed tradition about the Sabbath open opportunities for public service that many of our people tend to avoid?

[OzarkWoman]

I do agree with what you have said, Jeannie. Not that I don't think that my friend Ben doesn't have much needed qualities for presidential leadership, nor that I disagree with some of his political views. I would just hate to see him put through that meat grinder. But more importantly, to win he would have sell his soul to the devil, so to speak, in terms of the political compromise that seems to always take place. That changes a person. And I am afraid it would change him in ways that would diminish his talents and effectiveness as a very positive influence for moral good, achievement and motivation to young people to dream big and go after those dreams.

I finally agree with you!!!!

[phkrause]

I agree Tom, also he could talk with Colin Powell about that, and learn.

[Dr. Waite]

To what extent should SDA Christians get involved in politics?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbLmKkiahTI

Also read Fundamentals of Christian Education page 475-477

[Jeannieb43]

To what extent should SDA Christians get involved in politics?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbLmKkiahTI

Also read Fundamentals of Christian Education page 475-477

Who is Allen Stump? What are his credentials?

[Dr. Waite]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite

To what extent should SDA Christians get involved in politics?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbLmKkiahTI

Also read Fundamentals of Christian Education page 475-477

Who is Allen Stump? What are his credentials?

At the end of the video, he provides his contact information so you can contact him and ask him that question.

[Tom Wetmore]

Jeannie, to save you the hour of watching, he also identifies his ministry at the very beginning - Smyrna Gospel Ministries. Website - http://www.smyrna.org/default.htm .

From what I can tell this is an independent ministry in West Virginia that claims to be following historic Adventism. It appears to be a part of the home church movement.

[Jeannieb43]

Thanks, Tom. You guessed the reason I asked; I just wondered what type of preacher he was, since it appeared he was preaching inside a home.

[olger]

As an HVAC service tech I worked on Sabbath sometimes. If I was on call and it was cold when people called with no heat, I went and fixed the problem. If it was really hot during the summer time and someone had a health problem, I went and fixed their air conditioning.

If someone called Friday afternoon, after knowing they had a problem all week long, that was a different story, once again depending on circumstances.

My religion has never been an excuse for someone else to suffer. In fact, my religion forbids me from rendering help when it is needed.

I own and operate a commercial roofing corporation. I make it clear to customers that we will not work on Saturday period. Sunday or Monday, sure. But the Ssabbath is a deal breaker. Won't do it, I don't care if water is coming in on your computer moniter, or prize picture of Aunt Mabel.

In 29-years, we have never lost a job because of this policy, and we have been praised for it a couple of times.

rejoice always.

[Textus Receptus]

Originally Posted By: joeb

As an HVAC service tech I worked on Sabbath sometimes. If I was on call and it was cold when people called with no heat, I went and fixed the problem. If it was really hot during the summer time and someone had a health problem, I went and fixed their air conditioning.

If someone called Friday afternoon, after knowing they had a problem all week long, that was a different story, once again depending on circumstances.

My religion has never been an excuse for someone else to suffer. In fact, my religion forbids me from rendering help when it is needed.

I own and operate a commercial roofing corporation. I make it clear to customers that we will not work on Saturday period. Sunday or Monday, sure. But the Ssabbath is a deal breaker. Won't do it, I don't care if water is coming in on your computer moniter, or prize picture of Aunt Mabel.

In 29-years, we have never lost a job because of this policy, and we have been praised for it a couple of times.

rejoice always.

Exactly!

[CoAspen]

Quote:

So how might rethinking that flawed tradition about the Sabbath open opportunities for public service that many of our people tend to avoid?

My God encourages me to help those in need....regardless of the Day. A religion might forbid doing that on the Sabbath.

Quote:

And at times I think we have outdone even our spiritual ancestors of Israel in turning the Sabbath into something it was never intended to be.

Yes!!

[Textus Receptus]

Quote:

My God encourages me to help those in need....regardless of the Day. A religion might forbid doing that on the Sabbath.

My God requires me to keep the whole of the law. Why dare call it a law if it is subjective? By your logic, people who work at organic health grocery stores aren't breaking the sabbath because they are providing a service which may save people's lives.

The Jews were trying to weasel out of the law for wanting the Romans to execute Jesus since the Sabbath was looming and it was against the law to commit murder. In their ill attempt to keep the sabbath, they still committed murder. Unfortnately, they did not keep either commandment.

Quote:

Yes!!

Yes, I am afraid people are changing the sabbath from what it once was. Sadly, I agree.

Looks like a lamb, but speaks like a dragon. Rev 13:11. Humanism and forsake the law? Never.

The vatican espouses a humanistic approach to theology. Post-modernism is a terrible thing.