This is Information All SDA's Should Know Of

[Gibs]

This may startle some of you and shock you, some of it does me too. I recognized the Masonic sybols and signs right away as I have been made aware of them for years and so notice leaders in politics using them very extensively.

I have had this link for over a year now and I had misplaced it and forgot it, but I found it yesterday.

Don't get overwhelmed and not see it all as it gets more revealing near the end!

http://www.jesusisfreedom.net/the-masonic-beginning-of-the-seventh-day-adventists.html

YOU WILL BE SHOCKED! When you finally get scrolled down and see the Lithograph that James White drew up!

This is information I am not glad to share but I don't believe must be witheld.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[debbym]

Quote:

This may startle some of you and shock you, some of it does me too.

i am not shocked nor surprised to see another crafted attack on the SDA faith and leaders. it will not end any time soon.

Quote:

Hand-in-waistcoat

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

David's Napoleon in His Study (1812), a famous example of the hand-in-waistcoat portrait

The hand-in-waistcoat was a gesture commonly found in men's portraiture during the 18th and 19th centuries. Napoleon I of France was most well known for the gesture and is readily associated with this gesture because of the several portraits made by his artist, Jacques-Louis David. Theories state the gesture was done by Napoleon because of a stomach pain he had, but the pose was common in portraits from the mid-18th century.[1] The pose originates from classical times — Aeschines, founder of a rhetoric school, suggested that speaking with an arm outside one's toga was rude.[2]

[Gibs]

debbym,

Too much evidence it is a Masonic sign along with many others, they have many, strange so many Christians are giving that sign in those pictures. Masonry originated long before from the Jews or so called Jews.

I would like to believe they knew not what they were doing but James Whites's Lithograph kinda ices the cake, the all seeing eye and 4 X's on the trees horizontal limbs.

Well I am shocked as I know all those smybols. Masonry has a way of getting into about all there is, the Mormon church is the heaviest with it.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

Nah, all they had was heartburn!

[Bird's Eye View]

I would be willing to guess most people would rather keep their eyes closed rather than admit the possibility of them having been deceived.

This is true of many things.

Sad, but true.

[Ted Oplinger]

This may startle some of you and shock you, some of it does me too. I recognized the Masonic sybols and signs right away as I have been made aware of them for years and so notice leaders in politics using them very extensively.

I have had this link for over a year now and I had misplaced it and forgot it, but I found it yesterday.

Don't get overwhelmed and not see it all as it gets more revealing near the end!

http://www.jesusisfreedom.net/the-masonic-beginning-of-the-seventh-day-adventists.html

YOU WILL BE SHOCKED! When you finally get scrolled down and see the Lithograph that James White drew up!

This is information I am not glad to share but I don't believe must be witheld.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Shocked? No, not really.

The "Freemason under every bush" conspiracy is just as rampant as the "Jesuit behind every tree" conspiracy. Truthfully, I grow rather weary of hearing and reading about these kinds of articles.

When the Remnant has too much time on their hands trying to find a comfort zone here on earth, and feigns frustration with why we are still here on earth after sooooo long, this kind of stuff is rather inevitable.

This one very much appears to be written by a Sunday-keeping person, in that the writer refers to the various Sabbath-keeping groups after the Great Disappointment as "cults". Sounds like something ol' Ratzlaff would approve of....

Blessings,

[Gibs]

The pictures and the Lithograph speak for themselves and each can do as they find.

There is more that could be said but that is enough for to want to investigate further I would think.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Here is a little piece more,

Here is one again all SDA's must see and do the read, don't sound of bias to me.

http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/obelisk.htm

This picture just shows the obelisk stone on James White's grave but later the one on EGW's is the same. EGW knew what an obelisk was as she spoke of "Egyptian obelisk"

These are Masonic symbols cannot be denied, just because some have not seen that they are don't nullify that they are!

It is quite unsettling that a symbol of the Egyptian Sun god appears on the burial site of James and Ellen White.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Bert]

In response to the 'unveiling' of hidden Masonic mysteries stated above, I would like to add a few comments. I joined the Masonic Order many years ago during a period I was 'out of the church'. I went through most of the chairs and eventually become the "Worshipful Master". This part of Masonry is called "The Blue Lodge", and consists of three degrees. Beyond the Blue Lodge one can continue Masonry through either the Scottish Rite or the York Rite, which leads to the top of Masonry. I did not go beyond the Blue Lodge.

I can say that some of the secret 'signs', as well as the obligations, are not supposed to be divulged to anyone not a Mason. But most of the ritualistic work can be obtained from a book in any library. Each degree has a significant 'sign' and a separate obligation, and none of them duplicate any signage as outlined in the above links on Masonry, at least in the Blue Lodge. Most surely it does not include women being in the Blue Lodge, for the very first test upon initially entering the lodge is to positively identify yourself as a man by the way you are clothed. There is an adjunct of Masonry for women in the United States. It is called the Eastern Star, and for young girls there are Rainbows and Demolays for the boys.

The significance of so many people with their hand in the position as shown on the lithographs is not known by me, other than it possibly being part of the Scottish or York Rite rituals.

Because of the nuances of Masonry practices, I gave up my membership in the Masonic Order when I returned to the church years ago. The giving and taking of oaths bothered me.

[Gibs]

Bert,

Not many do give up their membership do they?

Yes there is many secret signs different ones give and they can be found out, many are very common, we see many in politics and world leaders giving them.

I do believe EGW fought against it pretty hard but it stayed we know that.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

I would be willing to guess most people would rather keep their eyes closed rather than admit the possibility of them having been deceived.

This is true of many things.

Sad, but true.

So where is the deception? i.e. those unbiblical teachings from the pen of these people that would betray its masonic origin? I've seen so many 19th c. pictures of men with their hands in the left lower chest that I thought it must have been the popular pose of the time. If it is indeed a masonic pause, I'm surprised Bert didn't learn about it.

[Bert]

Originally Posted By: Bird's Eye View

I would be willing to guess most people would rather keep their eyes closed rather than admit the possibility of them having been deceived.

This is true of many things.

Sad, but true.

So where is the deception? i.e. those unbiblical teachings from the pen of these people that would betray its masonic origin? I've seen so many 19th c. pictures of men with their hands in the left lower chest that I thought it must have been the popular pose of the time. If it is indeed a masonic pause, I'm surprised Bert didn't learn about it.

I was an active Mason for over 30 years and the insertion of your hand in your coat or shirt in the lower chest is not in any of the signage or rituals of the three basic degrees of Masonry in the Blue Lodge. I conducted numerous initiations and obligations as the Worshipful Master, and none of them have that signage. The Blue Lodge is the basis for ALL masonry, and the symbolism of the language today in the degree work is allegorical, or speculative, using the operative tools of masons in their work in the past as its model. Supposedly, operative masons in the past obtained their expertise in their craft in stages...apprentice, fellowcraft and finally a master mason. When they travelled from one place, or job, to another, they were required to provide the secret 'codes' of their stage of the craft, thereby an apprentice could not work as a fellowcraft or a master mason, and receive their wages, because he did not know the 'codes' of their craft.

I hope this clarifies some of the mysteries surrounding Masonry, most significantly the Blue Lodge.

[Gibs]

The hand stuck in the coat means "master of second veil" and has another meaning, "the hidden hand that shaped history"

The left hand across chest means "equity" or "sing of fellow craft" a second degree sign.

There is a ton of other signs used and a ton of symbols.

We had a man here that was in the "white coats" that gave seminars on the symbols and they are not good. He died young from a disease from their experiments on him.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Tom Wetmore]

I suspect that one of the diseases that he acquired was paranoia, which is a key element of conspiracy theories...

[Gibs]

No Tom, it was a disease with a big name and it is long gone from me.

On the sign EGW was giving may well have been what they asked her to do not knowing at the time the Masonic meanings.

She herself fought Masonry hard and if she was one after that, that would be bad.

But I harbor no such idea.

The fact of the matter is of EGW we must know of ourselves, was she of God or Satan.

The first book of hers I read settled that for me, it was Early Writtings and I know she was not of Satan.

She was surrounded though and made her work very hard.

However each and everyone needs to study the meaning of all the symbols the churches all use and the world and the secret hand signs given by polititians and all high people.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Bert]

The hand stuck in the coat means "master of second veil" and has another meaning, "the hidden hand that shaped history"

The left hand across chest means "equity" or "sing of fellow craft" a second degree sign.

There is a ton of other signs used and a ton of symbols.

We had a man here that was in the "white coats" that gave seminars on the symbols and they are not good. He died young from a disease from their experiments on him.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Sorry Gibs, but you have been misinformed. The 'left hand across the chest' is not the sign of a fellowcraft, the second degree of masonry. I conducted that degree many, many times. Each degree has its own sign of identification, and there are only three degrees in the Blue Lodge. Each degree has its own obligation. There are a few symbols, with the main one being the square and compass, which is the symbol of masonry you see on their meeting halls, etc. As I mentioned in my previous post, the working tools used by a mason in his work are used in a speculative sense in the masonic order to provide lessons in living an honest and upright life. That's all.

[Gibs]

What I posted came from a book and may be from a different order than the Blue Lodge.

I myself have never been a mason and will never.

There are many different secret signs they have and we see different ones flashing them all the time. Bill Clinton and George W Bush gave them all the time.

Masonry is to gain power in this life and most in it are in it for that reason.

Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Bert]

What I posted came from a book and may be from a different order than the Blue Lodge.

I myself have never been a mason and will never.

There are many different secret signs they have and we see different ones flashing them all the time. Bill Clinton and George W Bush gave them all the time.

Masonry is to gain power in this life and most in it are in it for that reason.

Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

The Blue Lodge is the basic tenet of the Masonic Order. There is nothing nefarious in the Blue Lodge, and so far as displaying 'signs' in public, it is strictly prohibited. If it was permitted and condoned, then it wouldn't be secret any longer. There is only one 'sign' outside of the lodge that can be recognized, but only by another mason, and would never be seen, or recognized, by anyone else.

You mention Bill Clinton and George Bush 'flashing signs'. What you might be seeing may be related to their college background...Yale, I think. There is an organization called "Skull and Bones" at Yale, which is a secret society. Many older schools have 'secret societies'. Run a search on 'Skull and Bones' and you will get several 'hits'.

Most men join the Masonic Order out of curiosity because of its secrecy. They find that it is not what they expected it to be...an organization that espouses brotherhood with each other and living your life in an honest and forthright manner. Of course, there are always exceptions where some abuse and use their membership for the wrong reasons.

[Gibs]

I guess I differ with you, but I do want to say that I do not believe EGW was a Mason, if she was she dropped out very early as she fought it strongly.

Here is a link showing some of the signs used and of course there is some non Masons do too but don't know the meaning nor do most people and don't even observe anything strange.

Masonry is of the occult and Satan is the God of it.

http://metaexistence.org/exposedmasons.htm

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Bert]

The only signage in the link you gave that is used in the Blue Lodge is the handshake. The others may be part of the Scottish and/or York Rite degrees above the Blue Lodge, I don't know. I have been previously made aware that there are some questionable areas in the degrees beyond the Blue Lodge involving the occult, but I don't know for sure.

I'm not trying to defend Masonry, but rather to explain what I know about it to allay false impressions. As I mentioned above, I am no longer an active, paying member because of the oath issues.

You will notice that Bush is not shaking hands with Queen Elizabeth. Women are not permitted to join the Masonic Order. That is why it is impossible for Sister White to have ever been a member. Possibly her husband, James, had joined and then left it later. Even so, she would not have given any 'signs' since she was not a member.

Anyway, at this point, this is a dead subject. Thanks for the discussion about this subject...a good one for discourse.

[Gibs]

Thanks Bert, you have a good attitude.

This is a link to some pictures, actually a very many and some are said to be women Masons.

Each decide for themself.

I though am with Bert, EGW was not of them.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=women+in+masonry&qpvt=women+in+masonry&FORM=IGRE

I agree too Bert, to letting it be a dead subject.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Bert]

Hi Gibs - Thanks for that link! I didn't recognize some of the signs, but a few came to mind that are used in certain occasions...like distress.

The women I recognized were part of the Eastern Star Order, which is the female part of Masonry. Men can join the Eastern Star, but women cannot join the Masonic Order...unless it has changed after a couple hundred of years. Of course, I've been out of the lodge for over 20 years, so don't know what's going on now.

Anyway, a lot of the pictures and symbols are scary! Again, thanks, for the link is very informative.

[aldona]

Just tagging on here, not an answer to any specific person.

I am aware of the link mentioned in the initial post, but I thought a lot of it was speculative and far-fetched. I find it hard to believe the "hand in the jacket" is some kind of secret masonic ritual.

I would take the information provided by someone (like Bert), who has actually been involved in Freemasonry, with greater credibility than that of someone who has only read about it in books (with all due respect to all those who research this topic). I certainly place myself in the latter category, so I do not pretend to have any kind of expertise on Freemasonry.

I do not think the obelisk on EGW's grave means anything. Are we supposed to think that Mrs White chose the design for her own grave? Even if it is intended as a reference to Freemasonry, all it tells us is that whoever was given the task of picking a grave stone for Mrs White had connections to Freemasonry. That could have been anybody - a relative? friend of the family? one of the pastors or elders at the time? an employee of the graveyard or the stone-mason company who actually made the grave-stones?

I have, however, seen what appears to be reliable information from a variety of sources stating that William Miller was a Freemason. I have also searched, and failed to find any evidence that he resigned from Freemasonry at any time in his life. That, to me, is more of a concern than hands in jackets or stones on graves, because it speaks to the very beginning of our founding doctrines and how they came to be.

To a classical music lover like myself, the most famous Freemason of all time was Mozart. His last and greatest opera, "The Magic Flute", is full of Masonic themes and allusions from beginning to end. The text reads like "Revelation Seminar - The Musical." Full of strange beasts, temples, priests, trials by fire, long quests for salvation with tests and rewards, and of course, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon at her feet, and a crown of stars. (Except in the opera, she is on the other side - one of the "bad guys.")

I always wondered about this - and then, when I heard that William Miller was a Freemason, I had a huge "light bulb moment."

In Melbourne, whenever there is a large Adventist gathering which is too big to be held in any of the individual churches, it usually ends up being held at the Dallas Brooks Hall (the "head office" of Freemasonry in Victoria). If I am ever lucky enough to be given the task of playing music for one of these events, I think I will play the "March of the Priests" from "The Magic Flute." Let's see how many hardened classical music geeks pick it - and make the connection.

AJ

[EmptyTomb]

The title of the link tells me that this is just an attack on adventism in general.

There are other web sites that claim that sda is part of Babylon now and we should not support the church.Of course these other web sites claim to be the "remnantofgod".

Also their chat room is called a church,and please bring your money with you to support them.

I am not saying the church is perfect,but Jesus is the helmsman of our "SDA" ship.

But i must admit the link was very interesting,thanks for sharing.

On the whole link page I noticed that 4 or 5 of the hidden hands used the left hand but the majority used their right hand.

A slight inconsistency??

[Stan]

Singleveggy

Gib's, is not someone who even goes to the Adventist church, he comes to these sites to create lack of credibility in the Adventist Church. Under the guise of he is the true adventist, or true church or something like that.

You would think someone who is cramming for the finals would know better.