Disillusion with religion

[hch]

This thread has *so* turned into what I hadn't wanted it to be...

Sorry, I had missed this post as I was conversing with others and going with the flow.

Conversations do not always go the way we intend. But you can post something to bring it back to the focus that you had in mind.

I hold the view that disillusion with religion is linked to backsliding. Something like this: We get busy and don't keep the connection alive. Then comes indifference. Then criticism. Then disillusion. Then religion becomes an optional part of our life. Then it slips into irrelevance and some even hate what they once loved.

That may not be the exact slide on the slippery slope, but you get the drift.

The reason for it all is loss of focus. Take our eyes off Jesus and like Peter we sink into the deep before we know what happened.

From my study of Daniel, I have noticed that he obeyed God in every particular and actively pursued a relationship with God and as promised in Scriptures: seek and you shall find when you search with all the heart. And finding Jesus is not the end of the journey, it is merely the beginning.

In contrast, those in Daniel's day that did not demonstrate obedience to the expressed will of God lost sight of Him and became obscure in the Scriptural record.

Daniel, who stayed close to God did not have a problem with disillusion. If we follow his example we won't have to worry about becoming disillusioned with religion.

[debbym]

Quote:

Daniel, who stayed close to God did not have a problem with disillusion. If we follow his example we won't have to worry about becoming disillusioned with religion.

I wonder what Elijah did with disillusionment when he wanted to not live anymore.

How did Joesph get through it when his believing brothers cast him into a pit.

and how did Samuel endure when the whole nation turned from God's will and demanded A king.

And Jeremiah endured greats depths of despair, and remained God's.

i am glad Daniel is not our only example. if it had been so, i do not think i could possibly be a Christian, let alone an SDA Christian.

we are telling the world "Jesus is coming, we are to get ready for it. We can and will actually Live Holy lives. Jesus has to be my holiness, my victory, and he has to place his righteousness on me, i cannot even dress myself for the occasion.

[LifeHiscost]

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i am glad Daniel is not our only example. if it had been so, i do not think i could possibly be a Christian, let alone an SDA Christian.

I'm satisfied if you had a correct understanding of Daniel's own assessment of his position as God's child and servant, you would have found great comfort and assurance of your hopes in meeting all the requirements we each must have for entrance into the kingdom of Heaven.

"If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action]."1 John 1:9 AMP Parenthesis brackets theirs' LHC

This speaks consistent with Daniel's confession and other texts.

"O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and take action! For Your own sake, O my God, do not delay, because Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”

Now while I was speaking and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the Lord my God in behalf of the holy mountain of my God, while I was still speaking in prayer, then the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision previously, came to me in my extreme weariness about the time of the evening offering."Daniel 9:19-21 NASB

This above and below reveals Daniels acknowledgement of his

lack and continuing faith despite that lack on his part, and God's call through the angel Gabriel at the time of his confession of being a sinful human being.

"Since all have sinned and are falling short of the honor and glory which God bestows and receives." Romans 3:23 AMP

God cares!

[hch]

Quote:

Daniel, who stayed close to God did not have a problem with disillusion. If we follow his example we won't have to worry about becoming disillusioned with religion.

I wonder what Elijah did with disillusionment when he wanted to not live anymore.

How did Joesph get through it when his believing brothers cast him into a pit.

and how did Samuel endure when the whole nation turned from God's will and demanded A king.

And Jeremiah endured greats depths of despair, and remained God's.

i am glad Daniel is not our only example. if it had been so, i do not think i could possibly be a Christian, let alone an SDA Christian.

we are telling the world "Jesus is coming, we are to get ready for it. We can and will actually Live Holy lives. Jesus has to be my holiness, my victory, and he has to place his righteousness on me, i cannot even dress myself for the occasion.

I agree that all of the people you site are for our encouragement. They each are uniquely qualified due to their faithfulness within their specific circumstances.

[NotTrue]

Hi,

I'm at the little by little stage. I'm getting in contact with atheists and I'm doubting my faith. I'm finding discrepancies in the Bible and there are things I don't like (disagree with) about the Adventist faith. I don't have anything against religion and I don't doubt the existence of God, I just have bad examples and little support. I don't feel like fighting for my faith anymore. I used to be on fire too. It's gone now.

[TruthSeeker123]

Hi Rudywoofs,

First of all, we all go through periods of doubt and disillusionment. For four weeks all I saw was conflict in the lives of my fellow believers. People who professed one thing but acted differently. I find this very frustrating, as we all do, I'm sure. But, there comes a point where we have to decide whether people's failures or lack of response are going to hinder us from following Christ or not. Your experience with Jesus is real. Your testimony and your deliverance from Satan's grip is true. No one can take that away from you. Only you can choose to deny its reality.

And yes people do cool down and become complacent. That is why Jesus admonishes us in Rev 3. He calls us to return to our first Love which is Him. So, sad as the state of the church may be keep your eyes set on Jesus. When Christ reinstated Peter in John 21 Peter asked about John. Jesus told him not to worry about John. Whatever happens between Christ and John is their business, the important thing is that Peter follow Christ. So it is in your case, I believe. I am not saying that you shouldn't be concerned about the state of your churchgoers' relationship with Jesus. I am saying that it shouldn't keep you from following the One who loves you to death.

Secondly, ask God where He wants to use you. He saved you so that He can reach others through you. He is walking a road with you that others, who might not be in the church, can identify with. Ask Him what His will is for your life. He WILL show you.

Thirdly, you are experiencing the downside of fame. When you came into the faith everyone wanted to hear your testimony, but now it is "old news". People seem uninterested. There aren't as many speaking engagements, etc. And that's okay, rudywoofs. It's the natural course of life. The Lord has prepared another field in which He wants you labour. Just wait for Him.

The honeymoon phase is over now. Now the real work begins. The work of faith. Just remember Heb 12:1-2.

[Stan]

Hi,

I'm at the little by little stage. I'm getting in contact with atheists and I'm doubting my faith. I'm finding discrepancies in the Bible and there are things I don't like (disagree with) about the Adventist faith. I don't have anything against religion and I don't doubt the existence of God, I just have bad examples and little support. I don't feel like fighting for my faith anymore. I used to be on fire too. It's gone now.

Many go through that transition, and would encourage you just to do some reading, not reading about the Bible. Some of it does not makes, sense, when you use the eyes of someone living in a developed country in the 21st century. Yet it all packages together in the end.

Read it for your self, never to fix others.

We all struggle, what we all need to do is walk hand in hand and encourage one another.

Be ware of wolves in sheep's clothing, that will try to take away your spirit and courage.

[Gail]

Hi,

I'm at the little by little stage. I'm getting in contact with atheists and I'm doubting my faith. I'm finding discrepancies in the Bible and there are things I don't like (disagree with) about the Adventist faith. I don't have anything against religion and I don't doubt the existence of God, I just have bad examples and little support. I don't feel like fighting for my faith anymore. I used to be on fire too. It's gone now.

What gave you your faith to begin with?

[Lauralea]

As a former agnostic somewhat into New Age who also did a big turnaround, I found I had to walk away from my old friends including former serious BF because they could not relate to what I was saying and I could not relate to them, with some exceptions. Those who see it great- those who don't, don't. Yes I have seen a New Ager or Wiccan or two with big turnarounds, but it doesn't happen every day and I don't share my testimony that often.

I am not disillusioned because Carlos Castenada and Gurdjieff followed illusions but following God is not an illusion. Some of my friends and relatives do or did not want to be disillusioned from their New Age or agnostic illusions, and while I keep loving the relatives, I had to move on from the others and not get into a lot of elaborate arguments, because even though I am considered intelligent as humans go for this day and age, I am not as smart as the angels, even the fallen ones, so I know I cannot out argue those who are caught in their sway. I just focus on living my life and being a positive influence. I can't let others determine my choices.

[hch]

Hi,

I'm at the little by little stage. I'm getting in contact with atheists and I'm doubting my faith. I'm finding discrepancies in the Bible and there are things I don't like (disagree with) about the Adventist faith. I don't have anything against religion and I don't doubt the existence of God, I just have bad examples and little support. I don't feel like fighting for my faith anymore. I used to be on fire too. It's gone now.

I thought my faith was rock solid.

Then Satan did a number on me last week and I was on the verge of collapse.

Sort of like Elijah running away from Q Jezebel after God had used him in a mighty way.

I saw my need and put out a prayer request to the sister in our church with the prayer ministry.

Told her something like I am in need prayer, I'm loosing it.

Got a phone call of encouragement from prayer warier offered help if I had a problem... That was not the problem, but it was a blessing that he cared enough to ask. Second brother emailed me - "God has led you too far to go back on Him now."

And I know the prayer wariers prayed, because I was in the valley of the shadow of death and hope flooded my soul. Satan's darts turned to feathers in the wind. Hope flooded my soul and the joy of Jesus returned to my troubled heart.

When Satan tries to rock your faith, get some prayer wariers to lift you up in prayer before the throne of Grace. You don't have to tell them anything except that you need prayer and God will know what they are talking about. And He will do His part. and He will help you do your part too.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

...Then Satan did a number on me last week and I was on the verge of collapse...

i can relate...

[joeb]

Hi,

I'm at the little by little stage. I'm getting in contact with atheists and I'm doubting my faith. I'm finding discrepancies in the Bible and there are things I don't like (disagree with) about the Adventist faith. I don't have anything against religion and I don't doubt the existence of God, I just have bad examples and little support. I don't feel like fighting for my faith anymore. I used to be on fire too. It's gone now.

Been there, and done that, with respect to discouragement.

As to arguing with skeptics, atheists, and the like, well, they can come up with some very deceptive arguments that sound very good. But many of them are based upon logical fallacies or not really understanding God or the Bible.

If you're new to the Bible and to having a relationship with God, and even if you're not, it's best not to argue with the devil's henchmen, for that is what they are. They are there to destroy your faith in God if they can. They are inspired by the father of lies and as such they can make a lie sound like absolute truth.

[joeb]

As a former agnostic somewhat into New Age who also did a big turnaround, I found I had to walk away from my old friends including former serious BF because they could not relate to what I was saying and I could not relate to them, with some exceptions. Those who see it great- those who don't, don't. Yes I have seen a New Ager or Wiccan or two with big turnarounds, but it doesn't happen every day and I don't share my testimony that often.

I am not disillusioned because Carlos Castenada and Gurdjieff followed illusions but following God is not an illusion. Some of my friends and relatives do or did not want to be disillusioned from their New Age or agnostic illusions, and while I keep loving the relatives, I had to move on from the others and not get into a lot of elaborate arguments, because even though I am considered intelligent as humans go for this day and age, I am not as smart as the angels, even the fallen ones, so I know I cannot out argue those who are caught in their sway. I just focus on living my life and being a positive influence. I can't let others determine my choices.

Lauralea,

That is a great testimony and very good advice.

As an ex-druggie I had to find new friends. I had to find new places to go, things to do, etc.... Being born again means to start living a new life and leaving the old life behind. That doesn't mean we need to dislike all of our old friends and acquaintances. We can still like/love them, but we must start associating with those who want to live the same way we now want to live.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

And I know the prayer wariers prayed, because I was in the valley of the shadow of death and hope flooded my soul. Satan's darts turned to feathers in the wind. Hope flooded my soul and the joy of Jesus returned to my troubled heart.

One of the reasons I (we) meet regularly with others who find what they need in joining in prayer, worship, and bible study, is because we know this is where God meets with His people. While there may be the one or another who leave a wrong impression, hard to deal with, for the most part we leave the group strengthened in our belief that God is fulfilling His promise.

"For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst." Matthew 18:20 NASB

"...not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching."Hebrews 10:25 NKJV

God cares!

[Gail]

Enjoying the discussion :)

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Do you love Jesus Christ? Do you believe in Him and in the Bible? If so, why would it matter what others do or think?

God is preparing us to stand all alone--- without family and without any friends or earthly support.

Except Jesus and and others who love Him.

"I no longer call you slaves, because a master doesn’t confide in his slaves. Now you are my friends, since I have told you everything the Father told me."John 15:15 NLT

God cares!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Cricket nailed it.

Originally Posted By: cricket

It does matter what other people think.

It does matter.

Especially if you care more about what other people think than about what Jesus thinks.

God cares!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

some people seem to think that God goes around thumping people! He don't need to do that...

Sounds like a comment that would be expressed by someone that thinks the Word should only have the psychology of positive thinking in its' pages. It is one reason why some feel only the NT is worth reading. Maybe this will give some balance.

"When they arrived back in Jerusalem, Jesus entered the Temple and began to drive out the people buying and selling animals for sacrifices. He knocked over the tables of the money changers and the chairs of those selling doves, and he stopped everyone from using the Temple as a marketplace. He said to them, “The Scriptures declare, ‘My Temple will be called a house of prayer for all nations,’ but you have turned it into a den of thieves.”

When the leading priests and teachers of religious law heard what Jesus had done, they began planning how to kill him. But they were afraid of him" Mark 11:15-18 NLT

While the context is a different setting, doesn't exactly appear as if Jesus always promotes "How to Win Friends and Influence People".

God cares!

[LifeHiscost]

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Point being: God is in charge and if we need validation from human beings, God will put them in our path at the appropriate time. But don't rely on people to fill the heart's longing for Jesus.

God cares!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

while it sounds really ...uh...brave.... to say that it doesn't matter what others think...

and while one can post all sorts of scripture to try and prove that it doesn't matter what others think...

Proverbs 22 and 23 *do* refer to the importance of what others think.

Psychologically, it IS important other people think. That's why we have manners....among other things...

If one is an employee, OF COURSE it matters what your boss thinks.

If one is a doctor, OF COURSE it matters what your colleagues and patients think.

If one is a spouse, OF COURSE it matters what your other-half thinks.

If one is a child, OF COURSE it matters what your parents think.

If one is a student, OF COURSE it matters what your teacher thinks.

If one is a lawyer, OF COURSE it matters what the jury thinks.

It even matters to God what people think. Otherwise, why would He bother to try and give any sort of advice to us dumb humans?

[Lauralea]

Thanks Joeb, its what worked for me. It hurts when people disappoint us and discount our most valuable experiences, but I read that we can't put confidence in people, even in princes, and that as a man thinks in his heart, so he is, so if people are thinking that drugs or whatever are where it's at I can plant seeds, but they have to be ready to change. I can't make them change, see things differently, or understand me or my belief system.

Ironically its not the Satanists who do not respect my belief system. Many years ago I was selling SDA books and ran into a self-proclaimed Satanist. We talked briefly. He kept his distance, and I sensed he was afraid or very cautious. He knew he couldn't come near me, because greater was He that was in me than he who was in him, or possibly because of the angels with me. And I was delivered from a head on collision with an audible voice. I know God is real he is powerful and greater is He that is in us than he that is in the world. Only His power is real and lasting. The power and attractions of the world will be destroyed- our choice is whether to choose them or the Lord. I pray all of us posting here may make the right choices.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

It even matters to God what people think. Otherwise, why would He bother to try and give any sort of advice to us dumb humans?

I guess it does matter what people, as well as God, think, but since it doesn't change what we're asked to do by God, I choose to believe He'll take care of whatever consequences might develop

as a result of what they think, if I do what He asks me to do.

"And they, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, (for they are a rebellious house,) yet shall know that there hath been a prophet among them."

Ezekiel 2:5 ASV

God Cares!

[LifeHiscost]

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I pray all of us posting here may make the right choices.

Thanks Lauralea, I believe what you think does matter and I am satisfied my life is better today because what you think led you to pray for me and mine.

Now I'm thinking when I go to vespers this afternoon, I'm going to ask the group in attendance to remember you in prayer, specifically that Jesus will bring this promise to fulfillment in your life.

"...but glory and honor and peace to every man (person)that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek:"Romans 2:10 ASV parenthesis mine LHC

God cares!

[Lauralea]

Quote:

I pray all of us posting here may make the right choices.

Thanks Lauralea, I believe what you think does matter and I am satisfied my life is better today because what you think led you to pray for me and mine.

Now I'm thinking when I go to vespers this afternoon, I'm going to ask the group in attendance to remember you in prayer, specifically that Jesus will bring this promise to fulfillment in your life.

"...but glory and honor and peace to every man (person)that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek:"Romans 2:10 ASV parenthesis mine LHC

God cares!

Thank you Life His Cost. I know I really need prayers and God's help because there are a lot of struggles going on in my life.

[Aliensanctuary]

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In the beginning there was no religion.

Erring, fallible men (and women) created a cacophony of world religions much later.

Quote:

In the end, all religions will be discarded and forgotten.

Studying, practicing, and sharing the key elements of Christ's teachings, rather than riding the roller coaster of man-made religions, is far more likely to give meaning and purpose to our lives.

Religions are artificial constructs steeped in error that often have little in common with the Kingdom of the Stars.