is all this gmo stuff real?

[CoAspen]

What we have here is a difficulty to understand the difference between claims and real, reliable, reproducible research, not anecdotal stories and claims. None of that is in your list! I have been to their web site,browsed though 'data' and read the rants by 'experts'. They lack so much integrity in the area of science and research that it becomes difficult to continue.

If one is into conspiracies and disbelief of what is known, then it is appealing.

[CoAspen]

The company and the issue of GMO are two different subjects. If one has an issue with GMO, then look for the research about it. Do not make assumptions. At this point no data has been brought forth as to GMO being good or bad, just opinions which are not evidence.

[LifeHiscost]

Jesus is the Answer.

He is the Answer to the four fundamental existential questions of life.

He is what everyone is looking for in the honesty of their hearts. He is the Desire of all Nations (peoples).

When we stand before Him soon, the only thing that will matter is what have we done with His blood.

g

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

They lack so much integrity in the area of science and research that it becomes difficult to continue.

And you've just revealed a good reason for athiests and agnostics and the ammoral should continue trying the Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin route for progress, since only anecdotal evidence is available for the existence of God, since we can't put Him in a test tube to make sure He really exists. All we can do is tell about the lives that are changed by His indwelling presence, largely based on personal testimony, you know, anecdotal evidence.

God cares!

[Guest]

Quote:

They lack so much integrity in the area of science and research that it becomes difficult to continue.

And you've just revealed a good reason for athiests and agnostics and the ammoral should continue trying the Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin route for progress, since only anecdotal evidence is available for the existence of God, since we can't put Him in a test tube to make sure He really exists. All we can do is tell about the lives that are changed by His indwelling presence, largely based on personal testimony, you know, anecdotal evidence.

God cares!

LifeHiscost!!!

I like you.

[olger]

Forsooth!

g

[LifeHiscost]

Thanks for the hand brothers RLH and olger. As my son would say, it was a God moment. Praise the Lord!

God cares!

[joeb]

I'm not in favor of genetically modified anything.

Saying this is just like cross-breeding and other methods of modifiying plant life just isn't true. A story just came out this weekend about genetically modified wheat being found in Oregon. How was it discovered? The herbicide roundup wouldn't kill it. Monsanto had come out with this "breed" of wheat in 2003, or thereabouts, so that they could spray their brand of herbacide, Roundup, on wheat fields and not kill the wheat along with the weeds.

Now, I don't care how long you cross-breed varieties of wheat you're never going to come up with a breed of wheat that is resistant to Roundup. It just will never happen. And, this gene modification was done for one one reason, and one reason only. To sell more Roundup. It wasn't done to improve the quality of wheat.

We just don't know what gene modification will do down the line. What does it do to those who eat the food produced from plants that have been modified? We don't know. There's a reason genetically modified plant-based food is not accepted by most countries, and even in countries where some genetically modified plant-based food is accepted it is used to feed cattle, pigs, etc.... It's separated from human food by at least 1 step.

Sorry, but I just don't trust Big Business that much. They have proven many times that they are so corrupt that they can not to be trusted. They place profit over country, honor, and ethics way too many times.

[joeb]

Hmmm... Weren't you the one that said in the raw milk topic, "Government is never the answer." Wouldn't that require governmental regulation and action to interfere with MS's freedom to run their business as they please?

That's right. Government is never the answer. Government failed the consumer completely in the case of MS. Government didn't do what it was supposed to do, what its own laws said it must do.

Oh, there was a big public show and the lawyers made $100's of millions of dollars, but the government didn't do anything of consequence to MS for their decades of dishonesty, corruption, and just outright destruction of their competition through any means possible.

It's kind of funny how you point to government as the answer even when it has completely failed. I guess you think more government is the answer....

There's a real appropriate saying for this with relation to government: Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

They lack so much integrity in the area of science and research that it becomes difficult to continue.

And you've just revealed a good reason for athiests and agnostics and the ammoral should continue trying the Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin route for progress, since only anecdotal evidence is available for the existence of God, since we can't put Him in a test tube to make sure He really exists. All we can do is tell about the lives that are changed by His indwelling presence, largely based on personal testimony, you know, anecdotal evidence.

God cares!

Your reply is in response to what? Not to the post you quoted...did you wish to start a new topic? Hmmm, trying to build a connection between Hitler, etc and sciencetific accuracy? I think we are haveing a failure to communicate!!!!

[Bravus]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/06/03/whos-afraid-of-the-big-bad-gmo/

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore

Hmmm... Weren't you the one that said in the raw milk topic, "Government is never the answer." Wouldn't that require governmental regulation and action to interfere with MS's freedom to run their business as they please?

That's right. Government is never the answer. Government failed the consumer completely in the case of MS. Government didn't do what it was supposed to do, what its own laws said it must do.

Oh, there was a big public show and the lawyers made $100's of millions of dollars, but the government didn't do anything of consequence to MS for their decades of dishonesty, corruption, and just outright destruction of their competition through any means possible.

It's kind of funny how you point to government as the answer even when it has completely failed. I guess you think more government is the answer....

There's a real appropriate saying for this with relation to government: Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.

OK. Here is what I hear you saying. Two very different things. First an absolutist statement that government is never the answer. That rules out all government. It leaves no room for improvement. Get rid of government. All government. None of it works. It serves no purpose.

But on the other hand, everything else you say is a rant that rails against ineffective government, incompetence, that government didn't do what it is supposed to do. But if no government is the preferred alternative, what do you propose takes its place to accomplish what you clearly see as needing to have been done? Really you are calling for more government. Your rant is essentially begging for more effective government that is effective enough, strong and big enough if you will, to put big business in check. To effectively accomplish what you are demanding of government requires more, not less, government - government that is bigger than big business.

We are not on opposite ends of a bipolar choice of all or nothing, small vs big government. We are in agreement. I am not arguing for more government, but rather government that accomplishes what it is supposed to do. Government is ineffective in accomplishing what we think it should be doing. Now where we part company is what government is supposed to do and how it is supposed to do it. But no government is not a solution. It is a formula for anarchy.

[CoAspen]

My exact thoughts! I was wondering when someone would get around to mentioning that humans are constantly modifying DNA since the original birth. I believe it really is about a misunderstanding of the process.

The opposite viewpoint could also be taken that the opposition it GMO is really a devious plot to sell more 'natural' and 'organic' products! Of course then one would have to deal with all the misuse of those words.

[joeb]

OK. Here is what I hear you saying. Two very different things. First an absolutist statement that government is never the answer. That rules out all government. It leaves no room for improvement. Get rid of government. All government. None of it works. It serves no purpose.

But on the other hand, everything else you say is a rant that rails against inneffective government, incompetence, that government didn't do what it is supposed to do. But if no government is the preferred alternative, what do you propose takes it place to accomplish what you clearly see as needing to have been done? Really you are calling for more government. Your rant is essentially begging for more effective government that is effective enough, strong and big enough if you will, to put big business in check. To effectively accomplish what you are demanding of government requires more, not less, government - government that is bigger than big business.

We are not on opposite end ends of a bipolar choice of all or nothing, small vs big government. We are in agreement. Government is ineffective in accomplishing what we think it should be doing. Now where we part company is what government is supposed to do and how it is supposed to do it. But no government is not a solution. It is a formula for anarchy.

When government is corrupt, inefficient, incompetent, power hungry, etc... it is never the answer to our societal ills. Pointing to it as the answer, knowing what condition it is in, and wanting to give it even more power by constantly expanding its role in our lives, is simple insane in my point of view.

[Tom Wetmore]

Key phrase - "in my point of view". And therein lies the rub. From my point of view, government that interfere with what I want is not good or if it doesn't prevent others from doing what I think they should not do is not good. Lost it seems is any concept of seeing things from the point of view of others or more correctly within the context of governance, from the point of view of all concerned.

It only matters if it serves my purposes. Case in point are the examples I noted from what you seemed to argue from opposites ends of the spectrum regarding the role of government. Regarding raw milk, government was doing too much interfering with what an independent farmer can do and what consumers can buy. Regarding MS, government wasn't doing enough. It wasn't curbing big business practices that interfered with consumer choices. But in each case there seems a lack of perspective of why government was needed in either case from the perspective of of all concerned.

I am quite sure that if government was reduced to the level being called for these days by some really loud voices, there would be more unhappy people, not fewer. Do you realize that the happiest people, the people most satisfied with the quality of their lives are people in the Scandinavian countries where by comparison, government is huge, taxes are high, and its role in regulating the lives of the people is far and away substantially greater than we have here in the US. It is not big vs small or more vs. less. It is a matter of effectiveness of government.

While you say that the answer isn't government, the lack of government is not an answer either. It needs to be fixed, not gotten rid of.

[joeb]

Key phrase - "in my point of view". And therein lies the rub. From my point of view, government that interfere with what I want is not good or if it doesn't prevent others from doing what I think they should not do is not good. Lost it seems is any concept of seeing things from the point of view of others or more correctly within the context of governance, from the point of view of all concerned.

It only matters if it serves my purposes. Case in point are the examples I noted from what you seemed to argue from opposites ends of the spectrum regarding the role of government. Regarding raw milk, government was doing too much interfering with what an independent farmer can do and what consumers can buy. Regarding MS, government wasn't doing enough. It wasn't curbing big business practices that interfered with consumer choices. But in each case there seems a lack of perspective of why government was needed in either case from the perspective of of all concerned.

I am quite sure that if government was reduced to the level being called for these days by some really loud voices, there would be more unhappy people, not fewer. Do you realize that the happiest people, the people most satisfied with the quality of their lives are people in the Scandinavian countries where by comparison, government is huge, taxes are high, and its role in regulating the lives of the people is far and away substantially greater than we have here in the US. It is not big vs small or more vs. less. It is a matter of effectiveness of government.

While you say that the answer isn't government, the lack of government is not an answer either. It needs to be fixed, not gotten rid of.

It's funny how we so often see things from such opposite perspectives. I see government failure all around me and say government is not the answer because it's corrupt, broken, incompetent, etc.... And it always gets everything wrong. Even when it says it's trying to do the "right" thing it accomplishes the wrong thing. Every time it tries to "help" it intereferes in our lives even more and increases its control over everything, which makes everything in our country even worse.

You read my posts and take from them that I am somehow for anarchy. All I can say that is the following. We speak different languages. We live in different universes. Never will our thought patterns and means of expressing ourselves meet.

[Guest]

I think you're right, Joe.

[Tom Wetmore]

...All I can say that is the following. We speak different languages. We live in different universes. Never will our thought patterns and means of expressing ourselves meet.

Reminds me of the oft repeated quote by Adam Savage of Mythbusters on Discovery Channel - "I reject your reality and substitute my own."

[Textus Receptus]

Blackwater the Mercenary group has new owners.

http://politicalblindspot.org/yes-monsanto-actually-did-buy-the-blackwater-mercenary-group/

[Gordon1]

Blackwater the Mercenary group has new owners.

http://politicalblindspot.org/yes-monsanto-actually-did-buy-the-blackwater-mercenary-group/

Not a good day if true..