Doug Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I have a conundrum. At my church we have 2 new members who are takig classes to be baptised. Last week we went out after church to a restaurant where alcohol was being served, and the 2 members partook of some alcohol. Apparently my other friends noticed this but I didn't. I kinda feel guilty that maybe we should have said something. I know for a fact that they know the Adventist message on not drinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I have a conundrum. At my church we have 2 new members who are takig classes to be baptised. Last week we went out after church to a restaurant where alcohol was being served, and the 2 members partook of some alcohol. Apparently my other friends noticed this but I didn't. I kinda feel guilty that maybe we should have said something. I know for a fact that they know the Adventist message on not drinking. You better be careful, unless you want to chase them away. I found a couple of people at the church I used to attend that decided it was jup to them to tell me everything they thought I was doing wrong and against God, according to them. Notice that I said USED to attend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted May 31, 2013 Members Share Posted May 31, 2013 You better be careful, unless you want to chase them away. I found a couple of people at the church I used to attend that decided it was jup to them to tell me everything they thought I was doing wrong and against God, according to them. Notice that I said USED to attend. This OW goes on in every church, SDA and nonSDA, I just ignore them. phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Originally Posted By: OzarkWoman You better be careful, unless you want to chase them away. I found a couple of people at the church I used to attend that decided it was jup to them to tell me everything they thought I was doing wrong and against God, according to them. Notice that I said USED to attend. This OW goes on in every church, SDA and nonSDA, I just ignore them. Yes, it does, but lately....it is much stronger in this church I used to attend. I worship at home by myself and get sermons and such via the internet. I will say this again, and it is not just because of the SDA denomination. I nver did and still don't like organized religion, which is religion made by man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I have a conundrum. At my church we have 2 new members who are takig classes to be baptised. Last week we went out after church to a restaurant where alcohol was being served, and the 2 members partook of some alcohol. Apparently my other friends noticed this but I didn't. I kinda feel guilty that maybe we should have said something. I know for a fact that they know the Adventist message on not drinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 OW, I can sympathize if the attempt to correct you is was done in a harsh and judgmental way. It's often done this way rather than in love, as my own experience has taught me. But, I have to ask, how do we follow Paul's advice in I Corinthians if all attempts to talk to someone seen doing wrong are seen as bad behavior? I'm not putting you down. I'm not judging you. I'm asking what I see as a legitimate question based upon what's in the Bible, and I'm curious as to how you see the advice Paul gave in I Corinthians. What do you see as the right way to follow his advice? The reason I ask you is because those who have been hurt the most, most often have the best advice as to how to proceed in following the instruction given in the Bible. Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 I'm not going to say anything, but I still feel guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I'm not going to say anything, but I still feel guilty. Use it as a learning experience. Take the entire incident to God. Tell Him all about it. Tell Him how you feel. Then ask Him to lead you to where He wants you to be on this issue. And, most important of all, ask His forgiveness if you feel you did Him wrong, if you misrepresented Him. The guilt will go away. Maybe you've done all that already. I don't know, but I have to keep things on the KISS level for me to understand and profit from what I see as my mistakes. Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A. Wintsmith Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Since you didn't notice the conversion students partaking of alcohol, I don't see how you can be guilty of not saying anything. I think your conundrum is more about what you should do if this recurs and you do notice it. You might avoid the issue by eating at a restaurant that doesn't serve alcohol, or if you feel the issue needs to be pursued you might speak with your clergy who is guiding them through the conversion process so that this might be address before they are baptized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted May 31, 2013 Members Share Posted May 31, 2013 Quote: Should SDA vets tell newcomers when they are doing wrong? "wrong" by whose measure? There are some SDA ministers and their wives who drink a bit of wine/champagne occasionally. Others shun it as if it was the plague. The only worldwide across-the-board health habits that SDA's abide by [that I know of, but I might be wrong], is avoiding tobacco and illicit drugs. Other things, such as unclean meats, can be dealt with on the basis of circumstances. And since neither you nor I are completely aware of someone else's circumstances, I don't think it behooves anyone to flip the Adventist bird of criticism at anyone else. Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Quote: Should SDA vets tell newcomers when they are doing wrong? "wrong" by whose measure? There are some SDA ministers and their wives who drink a bit of wine/champagne occasionally. Others shun it as if it was the plague. The only worldwide across-the-board health habits that SDA's abide by [that I know of, but I might be wrong], is avoiding tobacco and illicit drugs. Other things, such as unclean meats, can be dealt with on the basis of circumstances. And since neither you nor I are completely aware of someone else's circumstances, I don't think it behooves anyone to flip the Adventist bird of criticism at anyone else. I know of SDAs that smoke, so that leaves illicit drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I have a hard enough time keeping myself on the straight and narrow path, without condemning others. If they were to ask me directly what I thought, then I wouldn't hesitate to answer. But they are baby Christians and as such, let the Holy Spirit be their guide. Now the older saints that have been in the church for such a long period of time, that their name is written invisibly in the pew. Those are the ones I question, but I let them explain, such as "Can you tell me the reasoning behind you drinking alcohol or doing this or that?". You'd be surprised at some of the answers you might get. For what will a man be profited, if he gains the whole world, and forfeits his soul? Mat. 16:26Please, support the JDRF and help find a cure for Type 1 Diabetes. Please, support the March of Dimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted June 1, 2013 Members Share Posted June 1, 2013 I know of SDAs that smoke, so that leaves illicit drugs. Yes, I know SDA's who smoke, but they are addicted and know they should quit, and are trying. If they are not trying to quit, it would be odd that they would consider themselves to be SDA... Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Yes, I know SDA's who smoke, but they are addicted and know they should quit, and are trying. If they are not trying to quit, it would be odd that they would consider themselves to be SDA... Why? Because you say so or question them? Smoking and what people eat is not going to save anyone. That would be called "works" You, or anyone else, are not going to eat or not eat, smoke or not smoke, your way to be with Jesus. I really don't understand why so many SDAs worry more about what other people are doing when it comes to things like smoking or what they eat instead of worrying about their spiritual health. You know, if people would help people to become stronger with their spiritual self, most of the other things would work themselves out in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted June 1, 2013 Members Share Posted June 1, 2013 Originally Posted By: rudywoofs Yes, I know SDA's who smoke, but they are addicted and know they should quit, and are trying. If they are not trying to quit, it would be odd that they would consider themselves to be SDA... Why? Because you say so or question them? Smoking and what people eat is not going to save anyone. That would be called "works" You, or anyone else, are not going to eat or not eat, smoke or not smoke, your way to be with Jesus. I really don't understand why so many SDAs worry more about what other people are doing when it comes to things like smoking or what they eat instead of worrying about their spiritual health. You know, if people would help people to become stronger with their spiritual self, most of the other things would work themselves out in the end. **cough** Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted June 1, 2013 Administrators Share Posted June 1, 2013 Originally Posted By: rudywoofs Yes, I know SDA's who smoke, but they are addicted and know they should quit, and are trying. If they are not trying to quit, it would be odd that they would consider themselves to be SDA... Why? Because you say so or question them? Smoking and what people eat is not going to save anyone. That would be called "works" You, or anyone else, are not going to eat or not eat, smoke or not smoke, your way to be with Jesus. I really don't understand why so many SDAs worry more about what other people are doing when it comes to things like smoking or what they eat instead of worrying about their spiritual health. You know, if people would help people to become stronger with their spiritual self, most of the other things would work themselves out in the end. Exactly. Perhaps you noticed the post I made in another thread: Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore The church where I attend is very much a come as you are church. That means if you roll out of bed late and pull on shorts and a T-shirt and come without brushing your hair, we are just really glad you made it to church. (And yes, there are people at church in that condition together with those in their best suit and tie...). Every Sabbath at least half who attend are not even members, many not even Adventists. When it was noticed that there were cigarette butts in the parking lot from those that were attending that would either put out their cigarette on the way in or light up as they headed out to their car after church the pastors and the church board discussed what to do. It was decided to put ash trays at the entrances, probably the only Adventist church that has ash trays. Come as you are. Everyone is welcome. "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Perhaps you have the post in another part of the forum where some are abmonished for posting what they feel. That is exactly how to chase people away from a church, but apparently some are too caught up with their "laws" that they forgot the part of love from Jesus. I did read what you posted in the other thread and I agree completely with it, but then I realize that Jesus went to the sinners and not the to the people who were already God's people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A. Wintsmith Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I agree that there are more important things to concern oneself with than what other people are doing, drinking, eating, smoking. However... It has been some years since I've been inside an Adventist church, but when the occasion arises again, I will be very disoriented if the congregation smells like tobacco and has booze on their breath, and ashtrays at the entry. There are certain things that a person likes to depend on in life, and one of those things for me is that an Adventist church has clean air inside, and their potlucks are all vegetarian. So, your challenge is to find a balance between retaining what identifies you as a unique congregation while being caring and considerate to those who don't quite walk the walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I agree that there are more important things to concern oneself with than what other people are doing, drinking, eating, smoking. However... It has been some years since I've been inside an Adventist church, but when the occasion arises again, I will be very disoriented if the congregation smells like tobacco and has booze on their breath, and ashtrays at the entry. There are certain things that a person likes to depend on in life, and one of those things for me is that an Adventist church has clean air inside, and their potlucks are all vegetarian. I never once read anything by anyone that said anything about smoking inside of a church building or not having vegetarian meals. Please be careful with your assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted June 3, 2013 Administrators Share Posted June 3, 2013 If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted June 3, 2013 Moderators Share Posted June 3, 2013 D.A. Wintsmith said: Quote: . . .their potlucks are all vegetarian.. . . Well, potlucks are not all vegetarian. 1) There are congregations whose membership is primarily from another country and their diet is not vegetarian. 2) I have attended potlucks where the community, to include local police, were invited to participate in an attempt to build relationships with people living near-by. Community members attended and brought food. E.g. The community was invited to share a potluck mean and to watch July 4 fireworks from church property that was an ideal spot to view the fireworks. Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted June 3, 2013 Administrators Share Posted June 3, 2013 Unless the newcomer is doing something that is blatantly harmful to the integrity of the church (gossip for one example) or to themselves it seems to me that the vets should accept and love them wherever they are in their walk. If it must be brought to their attention the pastor is usually the most qualified to approach the new comer. God takes us all where we are on our path and patiently and lovingly allows the Holy Spirit to guide us to maturity. Can we do less? If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Originally Posted By: rudywoofs Yes, I know SDA's who smoke, but they are addicted and know they should quit, and are trying. If they are not trying to quit, it would be odd that they would consider themselves to be SDA... Why? Because you say so or question them? Smoking and what people eat is not going to save anyone. That would be called "works" You, or anyone else, are not going to eat or not eat, smoke or not smoke, your way to be with Jesus. I really don't understand why so many SDAs worry more about what other people are doing when it comes to things like smoking or what they eat instead of worrying about their spiritual health. You know, if people would help people to become stronger with their spiritual self, most of the other things would work themselves out in the end. My brother smoked until he died of a heart attack caused by a lack of oxygen he was suppose to be using as a result of emphysema. He fell into a hole that cost him his life without my saying one word of caution to him. Was I protecting him from feeling offended, or was I protecting myself because I didn't want to feel offended upon the chance of being repulsed? God took my seriously flawed failings and used what I did give him, in sending some pictures of Christ welcoming someone into the kingdom with a warm embrace, along with some video tapes of George Vandemann. When clearing out his affects at his home after his death, I found both of the pictures of Christ in his office, one on the desk he worked from and another with the same motif on the wall behind the desk. I expect to see my brother in the Kingdom, minus his addiction to smokes. I hope I was instrumental in encouraging him to see Jesus as his best Friend, whether or not he was without flaw. Each case must be decided according to how we much we love the individual we are trying to keep from falling into the ditch. "Don’t you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself..." 1 Corinthians 6:19 NLT "...he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also. 1 John 4:20-21 NKJV God cares! Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators LynnDel Posted June 3, 2013 Moderators Share Posted June 3, 2013 I have never felt it my duty to point out to others when they are doing it wrong, especially when I am quite sure they already know they are going against the health practices of the church. They have already chosen to go their own way in diet, and it is likely they are either feeling a little guilty already, or have thought it through and made their decisions based on their own interpretations or rationalization. Any attempt on my part to change them will likely only serve to put distance between me and them and between them and the church if they view my critical attitude as being representative of the church. Not saying I think I have the only right answer to this issue; it's just my current thinking on it. LD LD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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