Administrators debbym Posted July 6, 2013 Administrators Share Posted July 6, 2013 Quote: 2nd thing is I wish preachers & leaders would realize that people (that is, me) are not encouraged to try harder by this "threat" and I wish they would cut it out! we cannot perfect ourselves, and we never could and never will be able to. Jesus is the author and perfecter of our faith. from Hebrews 12. God is responsible to bring this about. God alone knows our hearts, how to lead us teach us grow us love us forgive us. we are perfectly loved, perfectly forgiven, perfectly provided for, we have a perfect God who is able to perfectly carry us through. we will have our fallen natures until the day we are resurrected or translated. it is our faith, and love for God that is perfected. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8thdaypriest Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I AM "perfect" - in Christ. The Father sees HIM - not me. Daniel 12:7 tells us what will bring the END of this age. "and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished." The "power" of the holy people is their witness. "And you shall receive POWER, after the Holy Sprit has come upon you, and you shall be WITNESSES." When the last witness is either DEAD or IMPRISONED, there can be no further witness to the truth. That's when it's over. When Christ cannot win another person to His side - that's when it's over (At least for this age.) www.prophecyviewpoint.com Quote 8thdaypriest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted July 7, 2013 Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2013 I'm not sure I would agree with the last line. While Jesus said that the wheat and tares are to grow together until the harvest, there will be a purging but not by man. God Himself will shake His church to purify it, to separate the tares from the wheat, the chaff from the kernel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8thdaypriest Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 What do think the angel meant - speaking to Daniel? "and when the POWER of the holy people has been COMPKETELY SHATTERED, all these things shall be finished." "All these things" being the times periods: 1260, 1290, and 1335. The angel did tell Daniel, that he would rise to his inheritance "at the end of the days." Sounds like the very end of time to me. 11:40 says "at the time of the end" 10:14 says "I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days" www.prophecyviewpoint.com Quote 8thdaypriest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restin Posted July 13, 2013 Author Share Posted July 13, 2013 OK, Joeb, it sounds like the preacher/sabbthschool teacher, keep saying that Jesus can't come until all the SDA conference churches try hard enough to actually quit gossiping, smoking, eating meat, wasting time, etc. etc.that they are all perfect like Jesus. They MUST become exactly like Jesus, never sin, etc. But they must try a lot harder because I know the people in at least 6 SDA churches in my area who are typically Laodecian (like me). And please don't say I'm no judge, because i know they gossip, flirt, go to movies, etc. And it reallytrips me up in church when the preacher goes on with this about us having to get perfect or Jesus won't come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted July 14, 2013 Administrators Share Posted July 14, 2013 Quote: OK, Joeb, it sounds like the preacher/sabbthschool teacher, keep saying that Jesus can't come until all the SDA conference churches try hard enough to actually quit gossiping, smoking, eating meat, wasting time, etc. etc.that they are all perfect like Jesus. But they must try a lot harder because I know the people in at least 6 SDA churches in my area who are typically Laodecian (like me). And please don't say I'm no judge, because i know they gossip, flirt, go to movies, etc. And it really trips me up in church when the preacher goes on with this about us having to get perfect or Jesus won't come. it is not about what we don't do, it is about what we love and what we do do. this is how anyone lives when they are not filled with the love of God for a lost world. there are missionaries that are not sda sacrificing all and praying to bring Christ to the world. there are Adventists who live and breathe to bring Christ to the world, and there are ... all kinds of church members of all kinds of churches, sda and non sda care little to sacrifice anything for the love of Jesus. when we do not take time for Jesus, the power of heavenly realities becomes lost to our minds. we have a fallen nature that overgrows everything when it is not subdued to the will of God by love. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 OK, Joeb, it sounds like the preacher/sabbthschool teacher, keep saying that Jesus can't come until all the SDA conference churches try hard enough to actually quit gossiping, smoking, eating meat, wasting time, etc. etc.that they are all perfect like Jesus. They MUST become exactly like Jesus, never sin, etc. But they must try a lot harder because I know the people in at least 6 SDA churches in my area who are typically Laodecian (like me). And please don't say I'm no judge, because i know they gossip, flirt, go to movies, etc. And it reallytrips me up in church when the preacher goes on with this about us having to get perfect or Jesus won't come. Sorry about not answering sooner, but I'd forgotten about posting here. What you're describing, Restin, is the legalists view of perfection. It's a series of do this, don't do that, and it's supposed to be reached by behavior modification. There's another view of perfection and how to attain it. This view says that we can become like Jesus by focusing on Him. The Bible tells us that by beholding we become changed. So, to become like Jesus we get to know Him better each day, and allow Him to change us. We bring those things that He shows us about ourselves that needs to change to Him and surrender them to Him. We give Him our sins and He changes us in return. And what do we see as "perfection"? Loving God and those around us like Jesus did. Having His character in us will produce in us the same kind of life and love that Jesus showed us was possible. He said the world would know us because of our love and that would identify us as His disciples. Anyway, just think about this. I've found a lot of peace and experienced a lot of heart change since I've found this way of looking at the process of sanctification. I know, as well as you do, that we can't expel sin from our own hearts. We can't "behavior modify" ourselves into loving others like Jesus did. We can surrender our hearts to Him, and allow Him to change us. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restin Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 All of your comments have helped very much. I'm getting it better that the "perfection" is in the relationship rather than lists of performances, and "behavior modification". (I do understand that psych term from class at UCF.) When I'm sitting in Sabbath School or church and this "perfection" talk starts, I can do better "translating" it into Righteousness through Christ, instead of becoming irritated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planey Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I fully agree with joeb's post, and would like to add this, which can serve to encourage anyone who doesn't feel perfect (does anyone?) The closer you come to Jesus, the more faulty you will appear in your own eyes; for your vision will be clearer, and your imperfections will be seen in broad and distinct contrast to His perfect nature. This is evidence that Satan's delusions have lost their power; that the vivifying influence of the Spirit of God is arousing you. No deep-seated love for Jesus can dwell in the heart that does not realize its own sinfulness. The soul that is transformed by the grace of Christ will admire His divine character; but if we do not see our own moral deformity, it is unmistakable evidence that we have not had a view of the beauty and excellence of Christ. Works for me. Graeme Quote Graeme____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted July 17, 2013 Administrators Share Posted July 17, 2013 Quote: Originally Posted By: Steps To Christ p64 The closer you come to Jesus, the more faulty you will appear in your own eyes; for your vision will be clearer, and your imperfections will be seen in broad and distinct contrast to His perfect nature. This is evidence that Satan's delusions have lost their power; that the vivifying influence of the Spirit of God is arousing you. No deep-seated love for Jesus can dwell in the heart that does not realize its own sinfulness. The soul that is transformed by the grace of Christ will admire His divine character; but if we do not see our own moral deformity, it is unmistakable evidence that we have not had a view of the beauty and excellence of Christ. I just love this quote. ty for sharing it, and just perfect for this thread. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted July 17, 2013 Members Share Posted July 17, 2013 I fully agree with joeb's post, and would like to add this, which can serve to encourage anyone who doesn't feel perfect (does anyone?) Originally Posted By: Steps To Christ p64 The closer you come to Jesus, the more faulty you will appear in your own eyes; for your vision will be clearer, and your imperfections will be seen in broad and distinct contrast to His perfect nature. This is evidence that Satan's delusions have lost their power; that the vivifying influence of the Spirit of God is arousing you. No deep-seated love for Jesus can dwell in the heart that does not realize its own sinfulness. The soul that is transformed by the grace of Christ will admire His divine character; but if we do not see our own moral deformity, it is unmistakable evidence that we have not had a view of the beauty and excellence of Christ. Works for me. Graeme Have felt that way many times, and than I always think of this quote from EGW. She not that hard cold @#$%^ that many make her out to be. Thanks Planey. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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