defending EGW

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Why is it that some feel that Ellen White needs to be defended so vehemently?

I think she was of value to the Adventist faith, but I don't put her on a pedestal. She certainly doesn't feel a need to be defended.

Is it, perchance, that when someone points out that she was human and a product of her times, that it arouses feelings of angst in those who overvalue her?

...don't know...just wondering...

[Gordon1]

On angst.

..there's a fair measure amongst those who undervalue her counsel.

[CoAspen]

Yes, I would agree. I have never felt she needed defending...unless it was because of the overzealous. l see her as an important figure in the history of our church, with some very good advice and at times God spoke through her. I often feel the same way about our pastor and others who have an obvious experience and relationship with God.

In whom do we put our trust, the prophets, the writers, or the God spoken about in their words? Perhaps the angst comes about because of insecure feelings about ones belief system.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

perhaps the angst comes about because of insecure feelings about ones belief system.

Bingo!

"They are a stubborn and hard-hearted people. But I am sending you to say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says!’ And whether they listen or refuse to listen—for remember, they are rebels—at least they will know they have had a prophet among them.

“Son of man, do not fear them or their words. Don’t be afraid even though their threats surround you like nettles and briers and stinging scorpions. Do not be dismayed by their dark scowls, even though they are rebels."Ezekiel 2:4-6 NLT

God cares!

[Kevin H]

There are probably different reasons. I understand one large one to be fundamentalism and trying to make Mrs. White fit the fundamentalist presuppositions and needing to feel that if she is a prophet then she needs to fit the fundamentalist presuppositions and if she does not then she can't be a prophet. Elder Canright probably would have stayed in the church had he not been an extreme fundamentalist and knew that Mrs. White did not fit that standard.

[D.A. Wintsmith]

Nods to Kevin H,and agree that that one reason for the perception that EGW needs defending is fundamentalism. I'm just now learning here on Club Adventist that one can be Adventist and not be fundamentalist. I am shocked and intrigued.

But back to the question, I was basically taught that Ellen White and the church were inextricably entwined, so to suggest that Ellen White did not write all those books all by herself with only a third grade education and God's guidance would be to threaten the foundation of the church. Adventists have been under some heavy fire since the 1980s by people who loudly and angrily branded Adventism a cult and got out of it completely -- over the question of Ellen White's role in the church. Families, friends, churches and communities were ripped apart over the disagreement; and even though it was decades ago now, it is still fresh in the minds of those of us who witnessed it or went through it. It was a traumatic experience even for me, and I wasn't taking a side. So, my answer to your question is: you need to look at recent history for one reason some people feel EGW must be vehemently defended. Some people have gone through a lot of trauma on this subject.

[debbym]

i was taught at my conference sabbath school seminar given by Hans LaRondelle that adventism is not fundamentalist in any way.

we are not literalist in interpreting the scriptures, our understanding of inspiration is not that the scriptures were dictated word for word, but that men of Gods spoke as they were inspired. expressing the truth in their own language, through their own mind and understanding.

we understand scripture when we are inspired by the same spirit that inspired the writers of scripture.

[Kevin H]

An exercise that was done in Bible Classes when I was in college that was useful was the professor would have a photo, and pick students to look at the photo and describe the photo to the class. Different students would tell different things about the photo. Then the professor would show the class the picture. The discussion would be over the differences in how it was presented, and also how we would form in our minds a picture as to what the photo looked like, and how what was in our minds from what we were told was not exactly like what the photo looked like, but yet when you saw the photo you knew that it was the photo.

So it is with prophets. Mrs. White described her vision as seeing snapshots that she had to explain to us.

I like to in church do the same exercise only with two similar photos, saying that I was going to try to deceive people and have them pick the wrong photo. However no one picks the wrong photo, everyone when they see the two are able to pick the correct one.

Prophets are people who sees the photos and used their own words to describe what they saw. We read their words and form our own picture in our minds and we can talk and debate about what we read. But when Satan's counterfeit comes, we will know enough to know the truth to make the right choice.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

But when Satan's counterfeit comes, we will know enough to know the truth to make the right choice.

"While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief... 1 Thessalonians 5:3-5 NASB

God cares!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

you need to look at recent history for one reason some people feel EGW must be vehemently defended. Some people have gone through a lot of trauma on this subject.

And instead of a need to defend her, let's just practice our personal faith as revealed in the scripture, and let those so inclined, pursue their own independent paths.

"If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve:..... but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”"

Joshua 24:15 NASB

"Surely the Lord God does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets."Amos 3:7 NASB

God cares!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

some very good advice and at times God spoke through her.

And I understand that is true of the Bible as well. Also another head of church, but of course, he actually claims infallibility.

God cares!

[debbym]

God Himself defends the truth.

[LifeHiscost]

And I would suggest He asks His servants to do the same when necessary.

"Dear friends, I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to his holy people."Jude 1:3 NLT

God cares!

[Gregory Matthews]

The SDA Church may not be fundamentalist.

However, some members are.

NOTE: The work "fundamentalist" has a range of meanings which differ in differing contexts.

[Gregory Matthews]

There is some truth in the idea that EGW does not need defending. However, there is value in addressing ignorance.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

I was basically taught that Ellen White and the church were inextricably entwined, . . .

We are.

However, that does not mean that we are entwined in the manner that some would suggest. It does not meant that we should evaluate that nature of that entwining to determine that it is currently appropriate.

[Gerr]

Would you say anything to defend your friend when someone is spreading malicious lies about her?

[Ted Oplinger]

Would you say anything to defend your friend when someone is spreading malicious lies about her?

It depends greatly upon the type of malicious lie is being propagated, Gerry. It also depends on whether such a defense would do any good before the individual(s) in the group one would be addressing. Jesus was quite eloquent about the Gospels and His ministry in the crowds, but silent before His accusers.

If it is but pulling her words out of context, then all I need do is allow her to speak for herself in the proper context. This is the arena where most "defending" occurs, IMHO.

If it is pulling her ministry and understanding of the Gospel out of context of word and time (aka, attacks like Canright's and Ford's), then that is a much different matter. That warrants a much more rigorous defense, one must necessarily dig deep into the fruit of the ministries concerned to tell which is of God and which is but a stumbling block placed before God's children.

That is how I view the issue...

Blessings,

[Kevin H]

Would you say anything to defend your friend when someone is spreading malicious lies about her?

And sometimes in defending our friends, we defend in a way that they don't want to be defended. Mrs. White not only had to deal with her accusers but also spent a lot of time writing letters to her so called "defenders" on how they do not understand her message and were thus misrepresenting her. I find footnoted in much of her defense the people to who she wrote those letters.

[JoeMo]

I personally don't think Mrs. White needs defending. She never hald herself up as infallible. It is the White Estate and the denominations that have given her that spin.

She was a very gifted person; and wrote some amazing things; I have learned a lot from her writings. People like Bill Johnson, Phillip Yancey, Max Lucado,a dn Joseph Prince are very gifted people; and have written some amazing things. No denomination that I know holds their writings on par with scripture.

I like EGW; but I don't blindly believe everything she or anyone else says. That being said, I really don't understand why some people loathe her. I sometimes defend her to EGW "haters" because they are misplacing their passion. Those who have made her SDA's equivalent of the Virgin Mary or the pope should receive the criticism.

[Neil D]

regarding the- That being said, I really don't understand why some people loathe her. I sometimes defend her to EGW "haters" because they are misplacing their passion. Those who have made her SDA's equivalent of the Virgin Mary or the pope should receive the criticism.

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I agree that she should never be the equivalent of the Virgin Mary or Pope...But I do understand why some former SDAs hate/loathe her....it because those passionate about her prophetic status use her as a club...It's the "Sister White says" syndrome....Translated, it means that "We shouldn't be doing [this or that] because she says in "Testimonys-That-You-Can't-Find" that we can't do [insert whatever behavior, thought process, that you want]......

After hearing so many times what you can't do, and what you are supposed to do....after a while she becomes a warden, or a hard taskmaster....and we begin to hate hearing her words...

[LynnDel]

EGW has been very misused, and still is. The loathing of her comes to the point where you can quote anyone in the world, even Lady GaGa, with impunity, but the minute you quote EGW, some listeners question the validity of what you're saying.

LD

[Woody]

EGW has been very misused, and still is. The loathing of her comes to the point where you can quote anyone in the world, even Lady GaGa, with impunity, but the minute you quote EGW, some listeners question the validity of what you're saying.

LD

[debbym]

yes eg white was slung around to stop thinking, to control people and be the end all answer, so no one needed to understand in their own mind.

this was done by people seeking their own power.

this is not the spirit and way that God works.

[M. T. Cross]

JoeMo, NeilD - one of you have to change your avatar - very confusing.

Why defend her? If her writings give you an insight, are meaningful to you in anyway - thats awesome.

Spiritual writers are just like anything else with spirituality. Its a matter of perspective and understanding. You can have a hundred Christian writers and they are going to disagree with each other, as their study, prayer and devotion has led them to different answers. I say go with what speaks to you, what makes the most sense with your own study, prayer and devotion.

People spend so much time arguing about whether this writer/leader/speaker/"expert" is on the money or not that they often miss out on the messages themselves.