George Zimmerman Verdict

[lazarus]

Just because she says race was not a factor doesn't

mean that is true.

K, its interesting that for you to even question her assertion provokes a reaction. Of course race is a factor. Its always a factor. If this was an all black jury you would hear people shouting racism, racism, racism,.....pathetic.

[Guest]

They have an opportunity to still enjoy their son.

[lazarus]

So Olger....

You were saying....about the other case in Florida. Did you read the "victims" testimony? Did the woman leave the house and come back in? Did he threaten to kill her. Did she fire directly at the man and her kids?

[lazarus]

Quote:

Nonsense. They haven't been able to see him since the trial ended.

LOL, it ended a few days ago. Perhaps they spoke on the phone, skype? email? text?

They might be able to get to see him next week, month, etc. The martins can't do that. You would agree that they have more of an opportunity to enjoy their son, right?

Z's life might turn out to be a living hell but he's alive.

[Guest]

I guess you're going to have to explain to me what a white Hispanic is..

It's a term that was made up by the media in order to be able to stick to their agenda driven narrative, and fuel racism even after they found out he was not really white.

They need him to be white, or it doesn't work. Hence the term, white Hispanic.

Using that logic, we should be calling Barack Obama a white black man.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Kountzer

Just because she says race was not a factor doesn't

mean that is true.

K, its interesting that for you to even question her assertion provokes a reaction. Of course race is a factor. Its always a factor. If this was an all black jury you would hear people shouting racism, racism, racism,.....pathetic.

Wondering what you think about this interesting article:

Quote:

The niece of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. says she is not a fan of the viral image of her uncle wearing a hoodie in support of Trayvon Martin. The image, created by artist Nikkolas Smith and spread widely by activist Van Jones on Twitter, shows a contemplative King wearing the garment, which has become a symbol of support for the slain 17-year-old.

“I can almost promise you Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. would not wear a hoodie,” said Alveda King on the Andrea Tantaros radio show Tuesday when asked about the image. Alveda King is a former state representative in Georgia and a right-wing anti-abortion activist and minister.

King said she and two of her cousins are calling on Americans not to “fight or debate” about the case, which she thinks did not raise any significant racial issues. The 29-year-old neighborhood watchman who shot the unarmed Martin, George Zimmerman, was acquitted of all charges against him on Saturday. Zimmerman is half Hispanic, Martin was black. “You've got two grieving and hurting families,” King said, before quoting her uncle. “We all need to live together as brothers.”

Tantaros asked King if she had seen the hoodie photo. “What do you think of this image? And what would your uncle think?” she asked.

“Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. would very likely not wear a hoodie,” she said. “I can assure you he would not wear sagging pants. I don't even think I’ve ever even seen his sons with sagging pants.” King then said the verdict had been reached and that Americans must accept it, before adding again, seemingly agitated, “I can almost promise you Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. would not wear a hoodie.“

[John317]

While we know Zimmerman's gun took the life of Trayvon Martin,

Originally Posted By: lazarus

I thought it was not guns that kill people but people that kill people.Quite revealing that you would use that phrase. Zimmerman killed Treyvon Martin!!! That's a cold hard fact.

Quite revealing? Really?

You're being too much the psychoanalyst.

It reveals nothing because I have no problem saying Zimmerman killed Treyvon Martin. Of course he killed him.

[Kountzer]

Originally Posted By: Kountzer

For the record: I am one of two blacks that visit

This forum. I wonder why there aren't more? Hmm.

I've never been to jail.

I've never been in a riot.

I've never been in a civil rights demonstration, peaceful or otherwise.

I don't carry a gun

When trouble comes I pray my way out

Of it.

I seldom watch CNN.

I watch Fox News even less.

I listen to about one or two minutes of Al sharpton

A month, if that much.

I don't use drugs, I don't drink.

I don't gang bang. Too old.

I haven't killed anyone, black or otherwise, hopefully I

Never will.

And this should make me think you're different than the average(normal), educated black man? Why?

I could give a flip what you think.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Jury woman speaks out; says race was not an issue in either the shooting of Trayvon Martin or the jury decision:

http://news.yahoo.com/-juror-says-zimmer...-010659567.html

Do you agree with her?

I can buy that John, but I think there is a real fine line. And the other thing that was interesting, is, she even says that GZ step over the line! I wonder what that means?

It seems she thinks Zimmerman shouldn't have got out of his car and confronted Trayvon. But the point is that it wasn't against the law for Zimmarman to get out of his car and confront Trayvon. That was going over the line but it wasn't a criminal act. So I think she's talking about what Zimmarman should have done as a part of neighborhood watch. He should have just called the police and then stood by observing what Trayvon was doing. That's what security guards are hired to do. They're not hired to get involved much more than that. If he'd done that, there would have been no fight. But once the fight started and Trayvon had Zimmerman on the ground and was beating on him, Zimmarman had a right to defend himself.

[Kountzer]

Originally Posted By: Kountzer

Just because she says race was not a factor doesn't

mean that is true. She probably been coached on what

to say.

Huh? Can't trust anything whitey says? She must be lying if she says race wasn't involved?

Did you hear the CNN interview with the black gal who was on the phone with Trayvon before the altercation that led to his death? She says nothing about race being a factor. She told Trayvon that Zimmerman was probably a gay rapist who was stalking him. Shortly after that conversation the fight started.

People lie. White people lie. Black people lie. And where did this 'whitey' [censored] come from? Take that played out rhetoric back to the '60s.

[Kountzer]

Originally Posted By: Kountzer

For the record: I am one of two blacks that visit this forum.

How do you know that? Is there a poll on here somewhere or somfin??

How many women, men, blacks, whites, Chinese, Russian, Asian, fat skinny, fit, average, ages... where's all this info at?...

I'm white and extra hairy - How many hairy white guys we got on here??

I've been to jail, but only to preach and bail friends out.

I've been in a riot/celebration and helped tear down a goal post once! Was on TV and everything!!

I've never been in a civil rights demonstration, peaceful or otherwise.

I don't carry a gun, but man I'd like to One on each hip!!

When trouble comes I pray my way out of it.

I never watch CNN. It makes me too mad.

I watch Fox News sometimes, but not much.

Who's Al Sharpton?

I don't use drugs... well, prescription occasionally, but seldom. Don't like to take medicine.

I don't drink... well, not anymore anyway.

I don't gang bang... well maybe once, but that was a long time ago.

Never killed anyone, but have been mad enough that I've tried to several times, with my bare hands, when I was young and ignorant and would fight for any stupid reason... just being honest.

Sooo... how many hairy white guys on here?... maybe we can start a gang?

I can tell by the way you post. It's easy.

[John317]

I believe that OJ was guilty of murder and Z is also guilty of murder. He should be in jail. "They always get away" is the key. He didn't want this one to get away. He succeed and an innocent teen is dead.

OK, let's talk about this. What exactly did Zimmerman do that was a crime?

Did he have a right to defend himself against being beat while on the ground beneath Trayvon Martin?

Or are you denying that Zimmerman was on the bottom? Are you claiming that Zimmerman was on top and was beating on Trayvon who was yelling for help?

You mentioned that race was an issue in what Zimmarman did, right? Where do you see evidence that Zimmerman killed Martin because of race?

[Kountzer]

It will be interesting when Ben gets on that conservative campaign trail and the media digs up the present truth interpretation of Rev 13:11, and various other adventist doctrines.

[olger]

So Olger....

You were saying....about the other case in Florida. Did you read the "victims" testimony? Did the woman leave the house and come back in? Did he threaten to kill her. Did she fire directly at the man and her kids?

Yessir - according to the courtdocument - she left the house - went to the garage - got her pistol - came back in and pointed it at the husband and children. She fired - hit the wall and it richocheted into the ceiling. I'll post it again in case you missed it.

Then after the pre-trial when she was ordered by the court to have nothing to do with the husband and children - she went to their place and tried to get the oldest child to change his testimony. She lost her temper and assaulted the husband - and was arrested again.

The prosecutor offered her a three year prison deal plea bargain, she refused and was convicted for the whole twenty years - by a unanimous jury that deliberated for 12-minutes. Guilty as all git out.

[phkrause]

It seems she thinks Zimmerman shouldn't have got out of his car and confronted Trayvon. But the point is that it wasn't against the law for Zimmarman to get out of his car and confront Trayvon. That was going over the line but it wasn't a criminal act. So I think she's talking about what Zimmarman should have done as a part of neighborhood watch. He should have just called the police and then stood by observing what Trayvon was doing. That's what security guards are hired to do. They're not hired to get involved much more than that. If he'd done that, there would have been no fight. But once the fight started and Trayvon had Zimmerman on the ground and was beating on him, Zimmarman had a right to defend himself.

Exactly John, he should never have gotten out of that car. We would not be talking about this at all if he had. I watched pretty much the whole trial, and I have much doubt about his account. To many lies. Even the lead detective had his doubts about his account.

[olger]

[LifeHiscost]

I would guess George is thankful he lives in the U.S.

Quote:

The Daughter Of 'China's Madoff' Broke The News Of Her Father's Secret Execution In A Heartbreaking Post To Weibo

Business InsiderBy Adam Taylor | Business Insider

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/daughter-chinas-madoff-broke-news-170100411.html

God cares!

[olger]

urp

[John317]

It will be interesting when Ben gets on that conservative campaign trail and the media digs up the present truth interpretation of Rev 13:11, and various other adventist doctrines.

Hope it never comes to that. I wouldn't be afraid of the SDA doctrines, because I think Dr. Ben would be able to convey them in a way that will do them justice. I just don't think he would make a good politician, and therefore his candidacy would almost certainly fail.

If I were him, I would give the media about 6 hours for interviews and questions right at the beginning of the campaign, and then after that I wouldn't answer any more questions about my religious beliefs. After that, it would be all about politics and the run for public office, and I would stick to that plan though the heavens fall.

[lazarus]

Yessir - according to the courtdocument - she left the house - went to the garage - got her pistol - came back in and pointed it at the husband and children. She fired - hit the wall and it richocheted into the ceiling. I'll post it again in case you missed it.

No sir, you didn't read the "victims" subsequent testimony where he admitted he lied a number of times.

In that testimony:

The garage door was locked.

He physically attacked her in the bathroom.

Threatened to kill her.

He refused to leave the house.

He lied about pleading for his life.

Admitted the gun was NOT waved at him and the kids.

Admitted that she fired into the ceiling.

Why would she not fear for her life when he said what he said to her that day. Did you not read his own testimony?

[Woody]

If only Trayvon had just gone home instead of lying in wait to ambush and innocent community watchman.

[Textus Receptus]

Quote:

I guess you're going to have to explain to me what a white Hispanic is because I'm a little slow. I've worked with a lot of people who identified themselves as Mexicans and a few who identified themselves as Hispanics. I've known even more away from work from both groups.

I've yet to meet someone of mixed racial heritage whether they're self-identified as Mexican, Hispanic, Indian, Black, or Asian who prefaces their racial identity as "white insert_race_here". I don't even identify myself as "white caucasion". Due to my ethnic background I'm very likely a mixture of a whole lot of races because my ancestors came from an area of the world that was overrun by one group and then another for at least a millenia. So, while I may be white in color I'm probably a little bit of a whole lot of races.

I've yet to meet someone of mixed racial heritage whether they're self-identified as Mexican, Hispanic, Indian, Black, or Asian who prefaces their racial identity as "white insert_race_here". I don't even identify myself as "white caucasion". Due to my ethnic background I'm very likely a mixture of a whole lot of races because my ancestors came from an area of the world that was overrun by one group and then another for at least a millenia. So, while I may be white in color I'm probably a little bit of a whole lot of races.

Well, those are good questions. I personally consider myself Hispanic or Latino. I am 5th Generation Mexican-American. I personally would never say that I am "Mexican" as Mexico is a country and not a race. Granted, Mexican-American is also not a race but this classification does designate where my ancestors originated from.

You indeed are correct, that most of us are of a racial mixture. However, when I refer to myself as a Latino/Hispanic I do so in the politcial sense. Contrary to popular belief, whites-caucasians still make up the majority of this country. Infact, they still are approxmately 70% of the U.S population. Although the racial and political climate has changed drastically over the last 60 years it would not be beyond reason to suggest that racial discrimination is still quite an issue despite the positive strides that have been made - especially in light of the Trayvon case. As such, it is imperative that efforts are made to keep adequte estimations of minorities in order to generate numerical data for what should be obvious reasons.

What many do not realize is that skin color is more important in the political and racial schema than lets say lastname or in the case bi-racial persons their skin tone. For instance, Many african Americans are of a racial mixture as well as most Mexican-American (Spanish visavis Spain) Yet, despite their heritage, racial discrimination is still a reality. Why? What most need to understand is that racism is a socilogical and political term which attempts to describe a power differential, and not soley the thoughts or beliefs towards and individual based on skin color.

Predjudices are the cause and racism is the effect. The apartheid in South Africa is exemplary in describing this concept. For instance, in South Africa though Blacks are the majority, whites still hold the majority of power. This can also be said of the U.S. As stated previously, strides have been made to equalize the power differntial, the evolutionary policies of the U.S. are a tremendous force that can not be easily rectified. One simple example of this are farms. It can be suggested that the majority of U.S. farmers are of white European descent. Most farms are multigenerational in that land and assets have been have tranferred from one generation to another. Yet, if we examine how land was acquired, we find that the acquisition of land by these families were a result of racist policies which granted land to a particular group, at the exclusion of others. And, though many of these families may no longer have the original farm, or the farm in general, their assets have been passed in what is called cumulative wealth.

It is easy for some who are in the majority , which have directly or indirectly benefited from this racial construct, to make race a non-issue. In other words, when a person is part of a political system and has the preferred skin color of that system, they can more easily over look many of the nuances which make up this sytem. Yet, for persons of color, the actualization of racism is a constant threat, therefore it is easier for the issue to be in the forefront rather than in the background. Though it is true that there are many whites that live below the poverty line, and vehemently protest that they have not benefited from evolutionary policies, yet racism is not an individual phenomenon. Though its effects can be felt individuaistically, it is a macrocosm that is firmly embedded in the minds of those in the political sphere which regulate the social construct of society.

[phkrause]

If only Trayvon had just gone home instead of lying in wait to ambush and innocent community watchman.

Actually if Mr Z had stayed in his car as the police had asked him to do, all would've been OK.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

If only Trayvon had just gone home instead of lying in wait to ambush and innocent community watchman.

Actually if Mr Z had stayed in his car as the police had asked him to do, all would've been OK.

Actually - the police both asked for him to keep an eye on Trayvon and also to obtain an address for them to know where Trayvon was.

But over all there are a number of ways this could have been prevented. But none of the outcomes were illegal.

[Woody]

From my vantage point - the major factor of this unfortunate situation ---- was the racism that was demonstrated by Trayvon as demonstrated by his racist comments made to his girlfriend. I do not find the 'N' word acceptable neither do I appreciate the racist 'C' word.