HATE AMERICA?

September 21, 2005

So if most people believe the mainstream media has a liberal bias, "independant" groups believe there is a liberal bias and the Pew Research believes there is a liberal bias, why should we believe otherwise?

More informative is that polls done among those working in the news media finds that well over 70% vote Democrat. So while being objective is a good goal, the question becomes, Is it possible?

I do believe that the mainstream media is becoming more objective than it was in years past. They have to or the market will leave them behind.

September 21, 2005

Quote:

Ed Dickerson said:

FOX is the only network that consistently presents both sides of an issue.

Please, please, please give some evidence for this quixotic assertion.

Quote:

Ed Dickerson said:

It was Jay Leno, a Gore supporter, who said, "If conservatives have FOX, that leaves the liberals with just ABC, CBS, NBC, NPR, Time, Newsweek, The NY Times and the Washington Post."

Jay Leno is a commedian.....it was a joke......satire...

Here's another one "Fox News announced they have phony documents also, but then they realized "oh it’s just our regular script.”

That's an example of being fair and balanced. He makes jokes about everyone!

Quote:

Ed Dickerson said:

Brit Hume is just a straight journalist.

I have never heard any suggestion that Brit Hume is gay! Its pretty clear however that he is a conservative. When do you ever hear hive give any SUBSTANCIAL criticism of the right? give an example if you can.

Chris Wallace, (he already had the job what else would he say) "Oh they're biased but I took the job becasue it was an opportunity I couldn't pass up".

Quote:

]

Ed Dickerson said:

Susan Estrich, is a regular FOX contributor

She gets a regular check from them too! If she said "yeah they're definitely biased" my guess that those checks would soon dry up.

I don't deny that there are networks or individual anchors who have a liberal bias. Thats not my point. My point is that FOX presents the news that the right likes to hear. Murdoch likes to make money. He recognised that there was a market for news presented from a conservative viewpoint. He did it in the UK with Sky news. It worked. He makes money.

Quote:

Ed Dickerson said:

Yeah. FOX is biased.

What more do I have to say....But I'll simply say that FOX presents the news that Republicans like to hear. It ok. Just be honest about it.

September 21, 2005

Sit down in front of FOXNews, with a stopwatch, when they are doing a regular broadcast. Time the amount of time they give Democrats on an issue and the time they give Republicans on an issue.

I.e. On hurricane Katrina they would show clips of Democrats criticising Republicans and then show clips of Republicans defending themselves or criticising Democrats.

You will see they provide both sides time to present their arguements. They report, we decide.

The reason many liberals don't like FOXNews is because Republicans have a voice. Never mind that Democrats have a voice too. FOXNews allows Republicans to get their message out into the arena of ideas. Before FOXNews that was a very difficult task for Republicnas to do.

September 21, 2005

Quote:

So if most people believe the mainstream media has a liberal bias, "independant" groups believe there is a liberal bias and the Pew Research believes there is a liberal bias, why should we believe otherwise?

Correction: Pew Research believes that there is a conservative bias.

Quote:

More informative is that polls done among those working in the news media finds that well over 70% vote Democrat. So while being objective is a good goal, the question becomes, Is it possible?

And why do they vote Democrate? Is it because they were plants [talk about your democratic "conspiracy theorys" !] or that they actually vote based upon what they know?

For further information regarding the conservative/liberal bias view points, go here!

September 22, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Correction: Pew Research believes that there is a conservative bias.

A 2004 poll by the Pew Research Center f...rvative."

Since 1962, there have been 11 surveys o...t conservative.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Over 40-plus years, the only thing that's changed in the media's politics is that many national journalists have now cleverly decided to call themselves moderates. But their actual views haven't changed, the Pew survey showed. Their political beliefs are close to those of self-identified liberals and nowhere near those of conservatives. And the proportion of liberals to conservatives in the press, either 3-to-1 or 4-to-1, has stayed the same. That liberals are dominant is now beyond dispute.

"When it comes to describing the pr...." page 14

September 22, 2005

Well Shane, the research makes the case. My kids would say (as they do to anything that should have been totally obvious)... Duh!

September 22, 2005

Conservatives also complain that there are many more liberals than conservatives on university campuses. My thought is always that this may not be an indication of bias on the part of hiring committees but a simple result of the fact that the more education someone has the more likely they are to have liberal values. Maybe the same applies to journalists - the more informed you are, the better you can see through the emperor's clothes...

September 22, 2005

I think it is more because liberals tend to go into professions where they can have an influence over others, like journalism and education. There are many more conservatives in business than liberals. Liberals do not dominate high educated professions like telecommunication, computer science, law or health care like they do in journalism and education.

September 22, 2005

Quote:

A 2004 poll by the Pew Research Center for The People & The Press found five times more journalists described themselves as "liberal" as said they were "conservative."

Ok, they concider themselves liberal. Yet the same group studied during the 2000 election campaign what was reported and who was reported on the most. They concluded that Conservatives were reported upon more than the liberals and that very same socalled "liberal" press reported more on conservative and republican than on liberals and democrates.

So, just because they call themselves liberals doesn't mean that they gave liberal slant to conservatives. The conservatives won the elections that year, remember?

Which goes to show, there is a way for liberal and conservatives reporters to disassociate their own views and still report the news in an objective with miminal bias...

**********************

Wait a minute. Your 'source' is an opinion of what the Pew Research puts out. IOWs, it is at best a secondary source of information, not the raw material. Shane, this is shoddy research. At least when I give a source, it is the raw material. Your source is an opinion of an opinion. Poor form, bad material and slanted research. For shame, Shane. For shame.

Give me the raw material, Shane.

September 22, 2005

Quote:

They concluded that Conservatives were reported upon more than the liberals and that very same socalled "liberal" press reported more on conservative and republican than on liberals and democrates.

I think one would probably find that the reason for more reporting on the Rebublicans was not favourable to them. Good news is not often looked on as news at all.

September 22, 2005

Quote:

Friend said:

I think one would probably find that the reason for more reporting on the Rebublicans was not favourable to them. Good news is not often looked on as news at all.

The Pew Research Group did look at that...And thanks for reminding me. The conservatives were reported in a favorable light more than the liberals. And they were reported upon more often than the liberals. When the liberals were reported on, it was in a unfavorable light.

So, we have liberal media reporting upon the conservatives/republicans more favorably, than on the liberals.

Explain that connundrum, folks. You just aint going to convince me that the media is 'liberal' when the raw material shows they report in a conservative fashion and they report the conservatives in a favorable light.

September 22, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Shane, this is shoddy research. At least when I give a source, it is the raw material. Your source is an opinion of an opinion. Poor form, bad material and slanted research. For shame, Shane. For shame.

"shoddy"? That sounds like inflamatory, emotionally charged language. Maybe even a little bullying. "Poor form, bad material" <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> That is getting a little personal. Let's try to elevate the conversation to a little more of a mature, adult level.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Yet the same group studied during the 2000 election campaign what was reported and who was reported on the most. They concluded that Conservatives were reported upon more than the liberals and that very same socalled "liberal" press reported more on conservative and republican than on liberals and democrates.

I have explained this before but for those with a short memory I will explain it again. Political campaigns hire campaign managers. (People like Karl Rove) One of the things they want more than anything else is free coverage. The word "free" is important. The amount of money a campaign spends is often regualted. Free coverage is not regulated. So a campaign manager will do everything they can to make news stories about their canidate. They do all they can to get media outlets to cover their canidate at no cost.

So if the Republicans got more coverage that doesn't mean the press was bias toward Republicans. It means the campaign managers for the various Republican campaigns did a better job of getting free coverage than the Democrat managers of the various Democrat campagns.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

The conservatives won the elections that year, remember?

I remember that more people voted for Al Gore. Bush won the electoral college.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Your 'source' is an opinion of what the Pew Research puts out.

I gave three sources in my post. All from reputable sources. One is from the Pew Research group itself. I even provided the page number.

September 22, 2005

How journalists see journalists 2004

http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/214.pdf

In terms of their overall ideological outlook, majorities of national (54%) and local journalists (61%) continue to describe themselves as moderates. page 7

...the single news outlet that strikes most journalists as taking a particular ideological stance – either liberal or conservative – is Fox News Channel. Among national

journalists, more than twice as many could identify a daily news organization that they think is “especially conservative in its coverage” than one they believe is “especially liberal” (82% vs. 38%). And Fox has by far the highest profile as a conservative news organization; it was cited unprompted by 69% of national journalists. page 8

September 22, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

You just aint going to convince me that the media is 'liberal'

[]http://www.clubadventist.com/ubbtreads/attachments/188747-tn_head-sand.jpg[/]

September 22, 2005

Brother Lazarus, We know that many journalists that now claim to be moderates actually embrace liberal viewpoints. So they have just changed their label. We know liberals out number conservatives at least 4:1 in the mainstream media. So how much confidence should we put in their opinion of their rival FOXNews?

Until another news network tries to be "balanced" like FOXNews instead of "objective" like the rest of the mainstream press, we have nothing to compare FOXNews to. I suspect someday another network like CNN or MSNBC will follow FOXNews lead in being "balanced" instead of "objective." At that time, they may do a better job of being balanced than FOXNews. But as of today, FOXNews cannot be fairly compared to its rivals because its philosophy of being fair isn't the same (balance not objective).

September 22, 2005

Quote:

Shane said:

Brother Lazarus, We know that many journalists that now claim to be moderates actually embrace liberal viewpoints. So they have just changed their label.

Because you believe it does not mean that we know it.

Brother Shane, I have to accuse you of being intellectually dishonest. You just happily quoted from a Pew poll without questioning whether the journalists were misrepresenting themselves. You did not question their views because it seemed to back your assertions. When I quote from Pew you attempt to refute my point by asserting that the journalists were mis-representing themselves........thats NAUGHTY and not up to your usual standard I must say!

I think the distinction you have made between balanced and objective is a "distincion without a difference" i.e. false. A balanced news program will seek to be objective by presenting both sides. An objective news program will seek to be balanced by presenting both sides.

September 22, 2005

Lazarus,

Whether one agrees with you or not, your posts are a pleasure to read. You have a great sense of style and a razor-edged wit.

September 22, 2005

Humbled ....by such kind words!

September 23, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

I have to accuse you of being intellectually dishonest.

Please, let's keep the discussion on topic. I am not the topic. My personal walk with my lovely Savior, Jesus Christ, and the wonderous works He is doing in my life is not the topic. My honesty is not the topic. We are discussing media bias and how America is portraited as a result.

I accept the studies done by the Pew Research. I believe that most JOURNALISTS view FOXNews as having a conservative bias. My point is that since most JOURNALISTS claim to be liberals or moderates that hold liberal beliefs, one would expect them to distrust their very successful competition.

So YES, I agree. Liberal journalists believe FOXNews has a conservative bias. BIG DEAL. They don't like their competition. The Pew Research also says the majority of Americans disagree with them. I would like to know if the liberal journalists working at FOXNews believe FOXNews has a conservative bias.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

A balanced news program will seek to be objective by presenting both sides. An objective news program will seek to be balanced by presenting both sides.

This is why liberals cannot accept FOXNews as being fair and balanced. Schools of journalism have taught for generations that in order to be fair one must be objective. FOXNews disagrees. FOXNews doesn't believe it is possible to be 100% objective. SO FOXNews says, "Since we cannot be completely objective, we will be completely balanced." FOXNews doesn't strive to be objective - they strive to be balanced.

Liberals can claim this is a "distincion without a difference" but until they grasp its concept, they will never be able to grasp what the folks at FOXNews are doing. FOXNews took a leap forward from thinking outside the box to actually doing something that no one else is doing. As a result they have become the number one cable news network.

September 23, 2005

Quote:

My personal walk with my lovely Savior, Jesus Christ, and the wonderous works He is doing in my life is not the topic. My honesty is not the topic.

Please, please don't believe I am questioning your spiritual life. Thats not my place. I know nothing about your spiritual life. I didn't mean to cause you any upset. I Apologise.

I felt as if you were being inconsistent in the presentation of your argumnents. In the area of logic and argument I had a problem with what you said. In any discussion there will be instances where one is illogical or inconsistent. I do it all the time!

Quote:

My point is that since most

JOURNALISTS

claim to be liberals or moderates that hold liberal beliefs, one would expect them to distrust their very successful competition.

The moderates did not say whether they held liberal views or not. The minority of journalists had liberal views. The majority were non liberals i.e moderates/conservatives

Quote:

Liberal journalists believe FOXNews has a conservative bias.

NO. 69% of all journalists indicated, unprompted, that they felt that FOX was left leaning.

Quote:

SO FOXNews says, "Since we cannot be completely objective, we will be completely balanced." FOXNews doesn't strive to be objective - they strive to be balanced.

hmmmmmm

Quote:

Liberals can claim this is a "distincion without a difference"

Its nice of you to elevate my comments to the point where it seems as my words represent the thougths of all liberals.

I just do understand why conservative don't want to admit that that fox is a conservative news outlet. Murdoch and the Fox executives understood that there is a market for that kind of approach to they news. They're sucessful and the other networks are trying to play catch up in terms of programing style and even graphics.

BTW. Does the BBC really hate America? or are they just fair and balanced.

September 23, 2005

Hey, Lazarus, I love your atavar. Way kool. Did you make that yourself? I would like to look like a Warrior-Princess, dragon fighter woman, instead of ms average dumpy housfrau.

September 23, 2005

There have been numerous studies over the last 30+ years, and they all find that, both in voting patterns, and in positions on specific issues, journalists are far to the left of the general public.

People consider FOX to be conservative because they are not used to hearing liberals questioned.

For example, when a conservative goes on a news show, they're asked questions like "How can you defend your vote. . ." or "Why do so many not believe your position. . ."

Hilary Rodham Clinton claimed that reports of her husband's dalliance was the result of "a vast right-wing conspiracy."

Instead of asking whether she retracts that obviously false statement, reporters ask her how she mangaed to survive that difficult time.

We see the term "right wing extremeist" all the time in the media, along with "ultra right wing." Howard Dean spoke of the "Taliban wing of the Republican party," and no one called him to account for such inflammatory language.

When did we ever see Russ Feingold, for example, described as "ultra left wing?" Or what would happen if someone described John Kerry as being under control of "the al Qaeda wing of the Democrat party?"

FOX is the only network that asks hard questions of both sides.

Brit Hume was not considered conservative when he worked with ABC news for years. Chris Wallace, the son of Mike Wallace, said he examined FOX news coverage before he agreed to work for them, and found no conservative bias. Susan Estrich, Dukakis' campaing manager, has written on how ridiculous the charge of FOX being conservative is.

Jay Leno, a Gore supporter said, "So what if FOX is conservative. That leaves the liberals only ABC, CBS, NBC, NPR, the NY Times, and the Washington Post."

Why won't liberals admit that CBS, the "fake but accurate" network, is basically an outlet for the Democrat party?

September 23, 2005

hey thanks Restin

The guy in the avatar is Olaudah Equiano, (c.1745-1797) As a slave to a captain in the Royal Navy, and later to a Quaker merchant, he eventually earned the price of his own freedom by careful trading and saving.

I got it from the net! try google/yahoo images. Type in the kind of stuff you are looking for. Theres bound to be something

September 24, 2005

....And that brings up another subject: Slavery!

It was practiced approximately 200 years.... Yes, 200 years. Did "America" declare that "All men are created equal"? Yes, then why slavery?

Because the rich southern plantation owners wanted their portfolios fattened. They wanted more profits...and they did just that using slave labor.

That is what is wrong with America....If she can "condone" & justify slavery for 200 years what else will she condone in the name of profits for corporate America?

September 24, 2005

One of the most interesting observations I make in these kinds of conversations is how we so easily fally prey to classifying people into groups, because of their nationality.

When the media suggests that a country has a certain sentiment towards another, it's so easy to jump on the bandwagon. All the world doesnt hate America? All Britains dont have tea at four? All Arabians dont think the West need to be bombed into oblivion? All Australians dont wear thongs (ok bad joke?)

Often we find that we have much more in common that transcnds national, racial or cultural boundaries. In Christ there is a common denominator that is uniquely global.

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