Cheated by the Affirming Church

[Suzanne Sutton]

[:"blue"]Cheated by the Affirming Chuch [/]

[:"blue"]"I feel cheated. Cheated by those who say they love me and are trying to help me. Yet if things were left up to them, I would still be in a prison of my own making--enslaved by homosexuality--and without hope.

"Like many other Christians, I have struggled for years with same-sex attraction. By God's grace I know freedom from a way of life that still holds too many others captive. Yet many within the so-called affirming church would deny us that freedom. They say homosexuality is God's plan for our lives, even though the Bible clearly says that homosexual behavior is a sin." --Anonymous, Christianity Today, December 2004.

Indeed, a rebuke to those who will not call sin by its right name! Here is someone who recognizes that it is not love that causes someone not to tell them the truth; it is actually a denial of freedom!

"It is not mercy or kindness to...neglect to correct [a child] on the grounds that you love [him] too well....Away with such love! True love will look out for the present and eternal good of the soul." --Ellen White, Child Guiance, 186. (--adapted from Our Firm Foundation, Sept. 2005).

Suzanne [/]

[Gregory Matthews]

Let me see, we are going to quote EGW. But, instead of gowing to her writings, we will go to Our Firm Foundation, and quoted what we acknowledge is an edited version of whet she actually said.

Well, I guess that many of us know better what EGW meant to say than she did. So, let us all go out and edit and correct her so that her message get out better than she said it.

[Dr. Shane]

It is known as tough-love and Jesus gave us such a fine example as He rebuked the Pharisees, ran the money-changers out of the temple and cried over Jerusalem. It is tough love that put me in drug rehab against my will.

I am so happy that the sin I got trapped into was alcoholism and not homosexuality. Society tells alcoholics the truth - that their behavior is destructive and can be changed. Society lies to homosexuals by telling them their behavior is acceptable and cannot be changed.

For three years I ran a ministry to help homosexuals leave the lifestyle. The Christians I met that had left the lifestyle were the kindest and most dedicated Christians I have ever met. Sometimes I wish I had been a homosexual just so I could be a permanent part of their group - like I am of AA. Saddly too many never get the message or support they need to leave the lifestyle.

[LifeHiscost]

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Gregory Matthews said:

we will go to Our Firm Foundation

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[:"red"] "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. " [/] 1 Corinthians 6:9 NASB

We can thank God that He leaves room for the gift of repentance for all of those who are falling short of His glory and are prompted by the Holy Spirit to make Him sovereign in their lives.

[Jeannieb43]

I don't read Suzanne Sutton's original post to be referring to an Adventist church. It seems to have been a Christian of some other denomination who wrote to Christianity Today bemoaning the treatment s/he as a homosexual received from his/her church. Didn't refer to any specific church.

[Suzanne Sutton]

[:"blue"]What can I say brothers and sisters. There are churches that cater to and are operated by homosexuals. I understand that there are even (one or two) SDA churches that do so.

Tell me though, do we just ignore the problem when almost every day in the media (newspapers, TV, etc.) gay activist are parading their stuff and demanding more and more concessions. Indeed, while the Christians for the most part are afraid to utter a peep for fear of being called homophobic and/or whatever. Of course, they need to know that God loves them just like He loves each of us. Yes, with our prideful, arrogant, self-righteous selves, we can all come to the Lord just as we are and He accepts and loves us. But He loves us too much to leave us in our sinful condition, but initiates the process of making us like Him.

I'm so grateful that my Lord accepts me as I am and is in the process of making me what I ought to be. Thank you Jesus!

Suzanne

We are ALL in the same boat, sinners in need of a Saviour.[/]

[Dr. Shane]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. " 1 Corinthians 6:9 NASB

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You forgot the best part.

[:"red"] "And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God." (verse 10) [/]

[LifeHiscost]

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Shane said:

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You forgot the best part.

[:"red"] "And

such were some of you:

but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God." (verse 10) [/]

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Thanks, Shane.

[LifeHiscost]

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CoAspen said:

Many,many,many christians are homophobic, but not so much phobic about their own pet sins!

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While it would seem reasonable to recognize we are all sinners, falling short of the glory of God, including whoever may be leading out in the affairs of the organized body of believers; it would also seem reasonable to assume that the persons accepting positions of leadership are making effort to keep their natural affinity to submit to their lower nature, under the control of the Holy Spirit that their shortcomings not prove to be harmful to the body of Christ as well as those in the valley of decision, who have not yet submitted to the power Jesus would invest in them when they admit to His sovereignty.

This would seem to me to be only reasonable to the person of sinful nature who would wish to advance the righteousness of Jesus, rather than advance the principles of the prince of darkness.

[:"red"] "For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light..." [/] Ephesians 5:8 KJV

And would Jesus give this instruction if it were not possible under the power of the Holy Spirit?

[Dr. Shane]

There is nothing wrong with calling sin by its name. In fact we are commanded to do so and many that fail to do so have a yellow streak on them from head to toe. I speak for myself because I have at times been too much of a coward to tell a man the danger his actions have placed him in.

That said, it does no one any good to show a man his sin without showing him his Savior. When a doctor sees a sick man he not only tells him what is wrong, but offers him treatment. Too many Christians approach gays, alcoholics, prostitutes and other undesirables with a sharp stick and while they jab them with it proclaim, "Sinner, sinner, sinner" That is far from the example that Jesus provided to us with the woman at the well and the woman caught in adultry.

[Nicodema]

[EDIT: used "quick reply" - this is not aimed at Shane]

If you ask me, church folk need to quit obsessing over gays and get a life. You all are just frantic because your paradigm has lost its influence and you can no longer control how these people think or feel about themselves with regard to their sexual orientation. You push and strive and struggle to regain that control, that ability to dictate to them who and what they are and how they are to regard themselves. You just can't stand the thought that somebody dare be different from yourselves and your way of life and not harbor the same thinly-veiled hatred toward themselves that you harbor toward them. And it IS hatred ... sugar-candy-coating it with all this blather about "loving" them and wanting to "save" them CANNOT disguise the raw, naked bigotry and prejudice in all its ugly stench. It can be seen and smelled a mile away.

The more you open your mouths (or pound on your keyboards) the clearer you make evident that there is ABSOLUTELY NO ROOM in your universe for anyone who doesn't view things the way you do.

That's not the kind of person I want to be. That's not the kind of person I choose to be. Thank you for a very vivid and blatant demonstration of what I never want to become.

[LifeHiscost]

[it is highly unusual for me to edit a post almost theee weeks after it was posted. But, I have done so today. Life began by citing a comment that we are told Nico made. One problem to me is that 20 minitues after Nico made her post, she edited it. If she made the statement attributed to her by Life, she quickly changed her mind, and removed it. I am perplexed as to why Life posted is about two hours later, well after Nico had edited it out herself, if she did make it. I say if, as probably no one but Life may have read it during that 20 minute period that Nico's post remained unedited. Under these circumstances, I think Life would have treated Nico better if her quote had not been made. But, why after I have seemingly allowed it to stand, do I edit it now, almose three weeks later? Because my failure to do so has recently been brought to my attention. It was not Nico who asked. I do not claim that the person who brought it to my attention made the same arguements that I have made here. But, after several e-mails with that person, I have decided that basic fairness suggests that I should remove the quote that is claimed to have been made by Nico. Thank you--GM.]

[:"red"] "...do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." [/] 1 Corinthians 6:8-10 NASB

And I'm assuming that the Creator, the Lord Who is defined as Love, Who inspired those words, would be included in the same terms as described above??

[No, Life, that assumption cannot be made. To attribute a comment you tell us was made by Nico, cannot fairly be applied as a statement from Nico about God--GM.]

[Raphael]

Controlled by impulses can be most heavenly when they're sanctified, on the other hand it can be worse than death.

I don't have the problems mentioned above but I do struggle to control my impulses and drives. Can't say much but to never give up though it may be fighting a losing battle. Hope and some sort of it is the only thing that keeps one going.

The battle among the immortals left two thirds salvaged, while the battle among the crippled prophecies an incomparable remnant amount to the sands of the sea.

What's the comparative amount of jewels to the rest material of earth?

You know, this weeks Sabbath School Lesson is very interesting, something to do with prayer ...

Love is the fulfilment of the law,

Raphael

[LifeHiscost]

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raphael said:

I don't have the problems mentioned above but I do struggle to control my impulses and drives. Can't say much but to never give up though it may be fighting a losing battle.

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[:"red"] "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing." [/] John 15:5 NASB

[:"red"] "..for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure." [/] Phil 2:13

YLT

Keep looking up!!

[Dr. Shane]

We need to spend more time in prayer - talking with God. We need to spend more time in His Word (listening to the Bible on CD in the car is great) - getting to know Him. As we grow closer to God sin will lose more power over us. "Turn your eyes upo Jesus, look full in His wonderful face, and the things of this world will grow strangely dim, in the light of His gloary and grace."

[LifeHiscost]

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Shane said:

We need to spend more time in prayer - talking with God. We need to spend more time in His Word.... getting to know Him. "Turn your eyes upo(n) Jesus

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[:"red"] "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." [/] John 17:3 KJV

[:"red"] "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." [/] John 6:44 KJV

[:"red"] "Jesus saith to him, `I am the way,....no one doth come unto the Father, if not through me; " [/] John 14:6 YLT

And all the said amen!!

Keep the faith!