Is coffee drinking really a sin?

[EmptyTomb]

Some believe Ellen White gives a lot of personal commentary which they claim is not inspired. And some claim all is inspired. The question is this: Is coffee drinking a sin?

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Letter 44, 1896

Tea and coffee drinking is a sin, an injurious indulgence, which, like other evils, injures the soul. These darling idols create an excitement, a morbid action of the nervous system; and after the immediate influence of the stimulants is gone, it lets down below par just to that degree that its stimulating properties elevated above par. {CD 425.3} {Te 80.1}

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All should bear a clear testimony against tea and coffee, never using them. They are narcotics, injurious alike to the brain and to the other organs of the body. --Counsels on Diet and Foods, page 430. {Te 79.3}

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Those who indulge a perverted appetite, do it to the injury of health and intellect. They cannot appreciate the value of spiritual things. Their sensibilities are blunted, and sin does not appear very sinful, and truth is not regarded of greater value than earthly treasure.--Spiritual Gifts, vol. 4, p. 129. {Te 80.2}

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Some have backslidden and tampered with tea and coffee. Those who break the laws of health will become blinded in their minds and break the law of God.--Review and Herald, Oct. 21, 1884. {Te 80.5}

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Those who have received instruction regarding the evils of the use of flesh foods, tea and coffee, and rich and unhealthful food preparations, and who are determined to make a covenant with God by sacrifice, will not continue to indulge their appetite for food that they know to be unhealthful. God demands that the appetites be cleansed, and that self-denial be practiced in regard to those things which are not good. This is a work that will have to be done before His people can stand before Him a perfected people. --Testimonies, vol. 9, pp. 153, 154. {Te 80.6}

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ET

[cricket]

Is drinking green tea a sin?

[EmptyTomb]

@cricket...The thread is about Ellen white and what she says about coffee only.

ET

[cricket]

@ET...Your first reference, indeed, the first word in the Ellen White quotes you provided was "Tea".

In answer to your question, no. She does not say coffee drinking is a sin. She says, "Tea and coffee drinking is a sin..."

[cricket]

Some believe Ellen White gives a lot of personal commentary which they claim is not inspired. And some claim all is inspired. The question is this: Is coffee drinking a sin?

---------------------------

Letter 44, 1896

Tea and coffee drinking is a sin, an injurious indulgence, which, like other evils, injures the soul. These darling idols create an excitement, a morbid action of the nervous system; and after the immediate influence of the stimulants is gone, it lets down below par just to that degree that its stimulating properties elevated above par. {CD 425.3} {Te 80.1}

-------------------------

All should bear a clear testimony against tea and coffee, never using them. They are narcotics, injurious alike to the brain and to the other organs of the body. --Counsels on Diet and Foods, page 430. {Te 79.3}

--------------------------

Those who indulge a perverted appetite, do it to the injury of health and intellect. They cannot appreciate the value of spiritual things. Their sensibilities are blunted, and sin does not appear very sinful, and truth is not regarded of greater value than earthly treasure.--Spiritual Gifts, vol. 4, p. 129. {Te 80.2}

---------------------------

Some have backslidden and tampered with tea and coffee. Those who break the laws of health will become blinded in their minds and break the law of God.--Review and Herald, Oct. 21, 1884. {Te 80.5}

-----------------------------------

Those who have received instruction regarding the evils of the use of flesh foods, tea and coffee, and rich and unhealthful food preparations, and who are determined to make a covenant with God by sacrifice, will not continue to indulge their appetite for food that they know to be unhealthful. God demands that the appetites be cleansed, and that self-denial be practiced in regard to those things which are not good. This is a work that will have to be done before His people can stand before Him a perfected people. --Testimonies, vol. 9, pp. 153, 154. {Te 80.6}

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ET

And actually, in every quote you provided she mentions only "tea and coffee" never just "coffee" alone.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

The question is this: Is coffee drinking a sin?

I suppose it is if, in your heart, you believe it is...

[EmptyTomb]

@cricket..i see that you are right. I think it is the caffeine that is bad.I am not sure if green tea has caffeine.My mind was focused on the coffee part. My purpose of this thread is not for me to define what is sin,but should we literally accept the counsel of Ellen white and avoid tea and coffee.

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Tea acts as a stimulant and, to a certain extent, produces intoxication. The action of coffee and many other popular drinks is similar. The first effect is exhilarating. The nerves of the stomach are excited; these convey irritation to the brain, and this in turn is aroused to impart increased action to the heart and short-lived energy to the entire system. Fatigue is forgotten; the strength seems to be increased. The intellect is aroused, the imagination becomes more vivid. {CCh 104.8}

Because of these results, many suppose that their tea or coffee is doing them great good. But this is a mistake. Tea and coffee do not nourish the system. Their effect is produced before there has been time for digestion and assimilation, and what seems to be strength is only nervous excitement. When the influence of the stimulant is gone, the unnatural force abates, and the result is a corresponding degree of languor and debility. {CCh 104.9}

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That being said can a person loose their soul by drinking coffee and tea. Is Ellen Whites commentary Divinely inspired where a person needs to abstain from these habits.

ET

[cricket]

@ET, I thought perhaps it was the caffeine you were concerned about. Wanted to make it clear that not only coffee has caffeine, but also some teas, soft drinks, energy drinks, chocolate and a few medications.

I, personally, believe there can be health benefits to moderate consumption of caffeine and do not believe that it is necessarily sinful in each and every case. Moderate use and careful consideration as to the purpose for such use should be given.

I am glad that Ellen White gives counsel on the use of stimulants, however. It does raise awareness as to the potency of stimulant use.

[Tom Wetmore]

At the risk of agitating the every-word-of-EGW-is-inspired folk, I think her use of the word "sin" simply was a poor choice of words. As one can see from a very careful reading of her health messages, as with many of her counsels, they evolved or developed over time. There was a continual refinement of her thinking on topics. And there were plainly corrections of past mistakes she made. And as has also been pointed out, she relied a great deal on her contemporary sources that were in abundance in her library. She also had a staff that assisted in the process. A reasonable position would be that inspiration guided all of that. But it really begs the question, What exactly is inspiration?"

There is very broad inspiration and very specific, and a lot in between. In Biblical times those extremes were very evident. Abraham was inspired to leave his homeland. It was rather vague, just "Leave. Get on the road. Get moving." The most God shared with him was that he needed to go because God had a great plan for him and his decendents. God said He would let Abraham know when it was time to stop. And on the opposite extreme, there were prophets that were given an explicit message from God to deliver verbatim.

Where was EGW on that spectrum of inspiration? I think all over the range. More to the point of her health message, it was a very general proding that there was a need for people were not making the best heath and diet choices. It is clear from much of her writing on health that it drew from contemporary knowledge of the time. And I think that if EGW had lived another 100 years her message would have changed to reflect the best medical knowledge available. We now know that coffee and tea is a mixed bag in terms of harm vs. benefit. A sin? Is it a sin to use any drug to treat a health problem? Is it a sin to abuse that same drug?

[Green Cochoa]

I guess I'm a moderate, but I would say that if one can drink coffee to the glory of God, it is not a sin. I interpret Mrs. White's use of "drinking" to be grammatically in the continuous tense, i.e. present continuous. In other words, I believe she refers to an ongoing habit. I do not believe, based on the context of her statements, that, for example, medicinal use (only when needed) would be a sin.

Furthermore, there are times when drinking a cup of coffee may be prudent and to God's honor and glory and/or one's health in other circumstances as the occasion requires. I faced a situation once where I was in a foreign country and stayed with hosts who knew no English, nor did I know a word of their language. I could not even tell them I was a vegetarian. They served fish. I had never eaten such before, but I knew the general poverty that existed in their country, and realized that they had presented me with a meal which may have cost them a week's wages. I thankfully recognized that the fish had fins and scales. I tried to eat it as though I enjoyed it. Then they gave me coffee. I drank it. As I had not drunk coffee before, I found that it put me to sleep shortly afterward.

God knows my heart, and the reason I ate and drank with "thanksgiving" that for which my palette had no relish. I ate what was set before me, asking no questions for conscience sake, as Paul advised us to do at times when eating with those not of our faith.

But Ellen White also made exceptions with tea and coffee, and used it herself medicinally. An example of this follows.

"My herb drink."--We need not go to China for our tea, or to Java for our coffee. Some have said: "Sister White uses tea, she keeps it in her house;" and that she has placed it before them to drink. They have not told the truth because I do not use it, neither do I keep it in my house. Once when crossing the waters I was sick and could retain nothing on my stomach and I did take a little weak tea as a medicine, but I don't want any of you again to make the remark that "Sister White uses tea." If you will come to my house I will show you the bag that contains my herb drink. I send to Michigan, across the mountains, and get the red-clover top. In regard to coffee, I never could drink it, so those who reported that Sister White drinks coffee made a mistake.-- Manuscript 3, 1888 (Sermon, Oakland, California). {2SM 301.5}

...

Tea Used as a Medicine, but Not as a Beverage.--I do not use tea, either green or black. Not a spoonful has passed my lips for many years except when crossing the ocean, and once since on this side I took it as a medicine when I was sick and vomiting. In such circumstances it may prove a present relief. {2SM 302.2}

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Ted Oplinger]

I think the writings of Paul pertain to this very much: Romans 14:1-8

Each must be convinced on their own, because ultimately we all stand before the Lord. We aren't allowed to make judgment calls as to the person's standing before God just because they are convinced differently than we think they ought to be convinced.

That said, I do believe God placed the coffee bean bush and the tea plants here for a reason - and it wasn't for abusive usage as a recreational activity. Medical research has indeed shown that excessive caffeine intake is indeed injurious to the body. On the other side, medical research has also shown that in correct amounts, caffeine also has some very beneficial effects within the body. At correct dosages, coffee and tea have been shown to be very beneficial in subduing migraine headaches that are not caused by withdrawal from abusive intake of the same.

There's a lot of opinion and misinformation out there on this subject, making it so very easy to simply read EGW's writings of the issue and come up with a blanket statement to judge every usage by, when in fact doing so goes contrary to Paul's admonition in Scripture.

Blessings,

[Textus Receptus]

I personally believe that it is only a sin if it becomes a vice of necessity which highly caffienated black teas can become.

Ellen White couldn't imagine green or white tea as it was relatively unknown in the victorian era. White and green tea has 5-10% the amount of caffiene when compared to coffee. Furthermore, if the tea is made gongfu style (leaves are rinsed for a few second and the infusion discarded) it lowers the caffiene to a nominal amount. In the case of aged teas such as Puerh and aged oolong, the caffiene is even lower since aging breaks down the caffiene compounds. - Yep, I'm a tea drinker :D

[olger]

It is a sign of weakness.

`G

[LifeHiscost]

EMPTY TOMB

Drinking coffee may not be a sin but it any food or drink

hinders the mind or body to understand bible truths then

I WOULD really consider not using it

dgrimm60

Sounds like common sense to me, a gift of the Spirit.

" So whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God."1 Cor 10:31 NLT

God cares!

[EmptyTomb]

Thank you all for participating in my thread on coffee.

I hope everyone on club adventist would give their opinion "backed with scripture hopefully". There are some at my church who drink coffee and do not even consider the writings of EG White or scripture for that matter.

I guess i am trying to figure out how narrow the path to heaven really is. We all know alcohol is a sin to drink and i would think most would agree,but when ellen white condemns coffee in the same context as alcohol it makes me stop and think.

"Tea, coffee, tobacco, and alcohol we must present as sinful indulgences. We cannot place on the same ground, meat, eggs, butter, cheese, and such articles placed upon the table. These are not to be borne in front, as the burden of our work. The former--tea, coffee, tobacco, beer, wine, and all spiritous liquors--are not to be taken moderately, but discarded. The poisonous narcotics are not to be treated in the same way as the subject of eggs, butter, and cheese. {3SM 287.2}

ET

[CoAspen]

Quote:

...alcohol is a sin to drink.....

"backed with scripture"......

[EmptyTomb]

Quote:

...alcohol is a sin to drink.....

"backed with scripture"......

If you know your bible you would know it is a sin CoAspen.

ET

[cricket]

Not exactly on topic, but not exactly off topic either...

Today I took my 90 year old grandmother to the hospital for a drug-induced stress test. After the test, her blood pressure was raised, her blood sugars were low, she was cold, and feeling nauseous. The remedy offered to help her? Caffeine. Apparently, caffeine has a beneficial use in the medical field to help people who react poorly to the drug-induced stress test.

Jesus might condemn her for accepting the 4 ounces of cola from the attending nurse, but I don't.

[Liz]

New International Version

The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. Gen. 1:12

New International Version

Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. Gen. 1:29

New International Version

It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. Gen.3:18

My thoughts are, everything that God made was good, sin corrupted some things-thorns and thistles. We need to be as healthy as possible, however, taking some meds are necessary. For me personally, taking a little caffeine for a migraine is preferable over some heavy hitting drug that may cause liver damage. I believe that God gave us medicinal plants to help us in this sin sick world. He is the Great Physician after all.

[Bravus]

The medical evidence shows that on balance, taken in moderation, for people without pre-existing conditions, coffee is *beneficial*, not harmful.

That's all I need to know: pronouncements from a time when life expectancies were half what they are now are irrelevant.

(as a broader comment 'is it beneficial or harmful?' is a much better question than 'is it sinful?' since the latter is so easily projected onto)

[phkrause]

New International Version

The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. Gen. 1:12

New International Version

Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. Gen. 1:29

New International Version

It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. Gen.3:18

My thoughts are, everything that God made was good, sin corrupted some things-thorns and thistles. We need to be as healthy as possible, however, taking some meds are necessary. For me personally, taking a little caffeine for a migraine is preferable over some heavy hitting drug that may cause liver damage. I believe that God gave us medicinal plants to help us in this sin sick world. He is the Great Physician after all.

[EmptyTomb]

Not exactly on topic, but not exactly off topic either...

Today I took my 90 year old grandmother to the hospital for a drug-induced stress test. After the test, her blood pressure was raised, her blood sugars were low, she was cold, and feeling nauseous. The remedy offered to help her? Caffeine. Apparently, caffeine has a beneficial use in the medical field to help people who react poorly to the drug-induced stress test.

Jesus might condemn her for accepting the 4 ounces of cola from the attending nurse, but I don't.

sounds like it is being used as a medicine or symptom reducer.

I think Jesus might approve to help a person get well cricket.

Most people i know drink coffee for the buzz and quick energy it gives them.But they are also addicted and can,t live without it.

As a medicine coffee may have its place,i do believe God created it for some useful purpose.

ET

[Tom Wetmore]

Quote:

...alcohol is a sin to drink.....

"backed with scripture"......

OK.

"Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses." 1 Timothy 5:23

So what other sins are permissible if used for medicinal/therapeutic purposes?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

New International Version

It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. Gen.3:18

and thistles are edible...

(and coffee and tea are *not* narcotics)

[EmptyTomb]

Quote:

OK.

"Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses." 1 Timothy 5:23

So what other sins are permissible if used for medicinal/therapeutic purposes?

The wine Jesus made at the wedding feast was not fermented,so i believe in reference to 1 timothy 5:23 that wine also is unfermented.

ET