Members phkrause Posted August 24, 2013 Members Share Posted August 24, 2013 Could you address the question of unity in the church? I am saddened by the many tensions I see in the church. I understand your concern. But keep in mind that both wheat and weeds are present in the church, and it’s important to seek unity in spite of the tensions. The unity of the church is rooted deeply in the unity of God Himself, whose creation is functionally and structurally one. As Creator, He was the center around which everything found its reason for being. Therefore, all of creation reflected to some extent God’s oneness. Sin damaged creation by decentralizing it. Left without a center, humans found one in their own selves with devastating results. http://www.adventistworld.org/article/1486/resources/english/issue-2013-1007/christian-unity Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Textus Receptus Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Interesting Article. I do wonder however if the author was speaking to Adventist or to all Christians. If he was directing his comments to the Adventist Church, then yes, I totally agree that we must remain unified and let the Holy Spirit separate the chaff. However, if he is speaking about the Christian world, then his message is not biblical. Clearly, scripture has a message of separation. The article was ambigious on this issue. I am assuming it is the former. I do wish he would have stressed this point just a tad more. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. Cor 6:17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concerned SDA Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 We must be constantly careful - seeking unity through compromise will only result in loss. Those who seek unity for unity's sake will ultimately end in failure. Seeking unity, through love for your brother, while simultaneously holding true to the pillars of our faith will truly reveal Christ in our lives. “We have a character to maintain, but it is the character of Christ. Having the character of Christ, we can carry on the work of God together. The Christ in us will meet the Christ in our brethren, and the Holy Spirit will give that union of heart and action which testifies to the world that we are children of God.” Ellen White, Testimonies, Vol 9, p. 187, 188. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted September 7, 2013 Administrators Share Posted September 7, 2013 the unity we are to seek is unity with Jesus, Unity with the Father and unity with the Holy Spirit, all one unity. through our connection with God, God can reveal His love to the hearts of those around us, to in turn offer that unity with Christ. John 17 is Christ pray for unity of all believers. The Holy Spirit is the source of that unity that will reveal Christ to the world. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon1 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 "The world has converted the church." Testimonies to South Africa 52, 1897. "Daily the church is being converted to the world." Christ's Object Lessons 315, 1900. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted September 7, 2013 Administrators Share Posted September 7, 2013 Quote: The unity of the church is rooted deeply in the unity of God Himself, whose creation is functionally and structurally one. the universe lost it's functional and structural unity with the entrance of sin, and we live in the hope that this unity of the entire creation of God will be restored. we have no unity with God when we are in unity with sin. we are either at war with God or at war with Sin. Jesus made peace between the human race and God, and opens the door for any who will to enter this peace, conditional peace, with Him. he says "behold i stand at the door and knock, if anyone hear my voice, and open the door i will come in and eat with him." Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Regarding the statement "Seeking unity thru compromise will only result in loss"..... It occurs to me that if we are presented with a connundrum over our doctrinal purity or the loss of the individual, we will NEVER LOOSE if we error on the side of forgiveness, love and repentance... Stubbornness and ego are such great risk takers and usually place bets that they can not pay...best to love an individual than to demand unity and that is a good investment.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 True Christian Unity with Him and fellow members is only by His Spirit of Truth! He guides those who have truly received Him into ALL truth. Without His Spirit of Truth in us we are not of the QUICK and QUICKENED! Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: Ac 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 1Pe 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. Which shall we be, dead or the alive in Him and He in us? Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. 1Pe 4:7 ¶ But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted September 7, 2013 Author Members Share Posted September 7, 2013 Seeking unity, through love for your brother, while simultaneously holding true to the pillars of our faith will truly reveal Christ in our lives. “We have a character to maintain, but it is the character of Christ. Having the character of Christ, we can carry on the work of God together. The Christ in us will meet the Christ in our brethren, and the Holy Spirit will give that union of heart and action which testifies to the world that we are children of God.” Ellen White, Testimonies, Vol 9, p. 187, 188. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I suppose there is certain brotherly love and unity of each and every denomination there is. But is it the Unity in the truth as it is in Him? Not unless His Word upholds it all! Now consider this, Zec 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 1Co 3:16 ¶ Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. So it has no denominational name. Then tell me when His Church fell to the gates of hell of which He told us it would not! True Unity then can only be of those believers who have received His Spirit of Truth. Guided then by Him into ALL Truth! 1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I suppose there is certain brotherly love and unity of each and every denomination there is. But is it the Unity in the truth as it is in Him? Not unless His Word upholds it all! Since I can not have God physically here, and since I must rely upon the word of ancient people with strange tongues, idiomatic phrases to understand current culture, unusual cultural practices , and since I can not get straight answers from God Himself to my complicated questions, I will hold loyalty as more important than doctrinal "truths"...I will hold friendship as the greatest of unities that will build/support "us" as it is only as we look out for each other that people will hold together....For someone to insist that we hold to a book, whose strange tongues, idiomatic phrases, unusual cultural practices are to be the foundation that holds a group together implys a dictatorship/a common understanding/common intrepretation that has never been totally and simplistically agreed upon since the dawn of man.... Gibs, if you think you have that understanding, if you think that YOU can interpret that bible, then you have powers that are far greater than any on this board....or in your neighborhood..... ....and if you believe that, I fear no one will follow you.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Neil D, All one needs is His Spirit of Truth and it is a promise He will guide the ones who will receive Him into ALL Truth! Now it must be clear that is the reason we do not have Unity and Harmony among Christians today. We ALL just must be guided by His Spirit and no other into "ALL" Truth! Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. Joh 14:18 ¶ I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Neil D, All one needs is His Spirit of Truth and it is a promise He will guide the ones who will receive Him into ALL Truth! Now it must be clear that is the reason we do not have Unity and Harmony among Christians today. We ALL just must be guided by His Spirit and no other into "ALL" Truth! First off, you are not me.....and [thank goodness] I am not you...Second, my senses are not yours...Neither do I function like you do....So, whatever or however you interpret the "Spirit of Truth" is going to be foriegn to me....So, when I tell you that you need to get a life, I primarily mean that you need to understand mine....And since you refuse to do that, seeing that you are superior than I, you don't want an inferior life....Since I know no other life and feel very comfortable with my supposedly inferior life, I think you can see that we are at an impasse.... You can say what you will, but you can not and will not interpret God's Spirit for me..period...end of discussion... So, how come you can not see that??? How come you cannot see that YOUR interpretation is as useful to me as a building castles in the air. The only way to overcome this dilemma is thru a process called "trust" and it has something to do with friendship and loyalty... So, you see, it is thru some nebuleous process of friendship/relationship that bring unity...not doctrinal issues... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planey Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 ...into ALL Truth! I have always been puzzled by this. What is "All" truth? If I was guided into ALL truth, would I be able to prove Fermat;s Last Theorem? Would I fully understand quantum chromodynamics? Would I understand what life is? ????????? Quote Graeme____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted September 10, 2013 Administrators Share Posted September 10, 2013 Quote: I have always been puzzled by this. What is "All" truth? If I was guided into ALL truth, would I be able to prove Fermat;s Last Theorem? Would I fully understand quantum chromodynamics? Would I understand what life is? ????????? since Jesus is the truth, i think it means l knowing Jesus, Paul somewhere prays that you may with all the saints comprehend the height and depth and length and breadth of the love of God in Christ Jesus Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 since Jesus is the truth, i think it means l knowing Jesus, Paul somewhere prays that you may with all the saints comprehend the height and depth and length and breadth of the love of God in Christ Jesus Is knowing "all Truth" the same as comprehending the height and depth and length and breadth of the LOVE of God in Christ Jesus? I don't think so, Deb...However, knowing the facets of relationships can lead you into all sorts of fantastical knowledge....whether that is "all Truth", I'm not sure....but I dont think so..... Just my opinion.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 ALL Truth pertaining to salvation. We only have finite minds now and when we are finally given a mind to comprehend of the infinite then we will be learning for some time, and wonderful will be our teacher. In this life, He by His indwelling Spirit of Truth, Christ in you, be ye guided by Him and we will not be deficient! 1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted September 10, 2013 Administrators Share Posted September 10, 2013 Quote: Is knowing "all Truth" the same as comprehending the height and depth and length and breadth of the LOVE of God in Christ Jesus? I don't think so, Deb...However, knowing the facets of relationships can lead you into all sorts of fantastical knowledge....whether that is "all Truth", I'm not sure....but I dont think so..... i see you seem to be making a separation between a relational knowledge of God's love and a static understanding of truth that shines light that we see in a thinking or understanding logical way? i want to clarify this. purity of doctrine, purity of truth, that is not seen or experienced in a relational way, what is it's value? is it just used to elevate one's thinking? one's comprehension of the holiness of God outside of relationship? i am need help understanding what you are saying. i am just guessing and floundering about. why did you bring up "knowing facets of relationships, and all sorts of fantastical knowledge" in this conversation of "knowing all truth"? Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 ALL Truth pertaining to salvation. We only have finite minds now and when we are finally given a mind to comprehend of the infinite then we will be learning for some time, and wonderful will be our teacher. In this life, He by His indwelling Spirit of Truth, Christ in you, be ye guided by Him and we will not be deficient! Oh, now you are qualifying "All Truth" to just salvation....sigh... nice platitudes....I'm more into reality....Like why we are not gone from this accursed planet? why isn't evil destroyed? And no, I don't think anyone on this planet can claim that evil hasn't had it's chance to work things out/prove it's point....especially since we have on record over 6000 years of recorded evil in our records...and since the most insidious of evil comes in the form of what mankind accepts as "good"... Gibs, you sound good...but in the end, what you preach is full of hot air....and a bit of thinking, [which I will admit that I don't do too much of] just makes what you preach that more....sad.... Until you are ready to deal with the harder questions, that of trust, your unity arguements from a doctrinal perspective just don't hold waters...and quenches thirst like sand does... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted September 18, 2013 Administrators Share Posted September 18, 2013 Quote: In this life, He by His indwelling Spirit of Truth, Christ in you, be ye guided by Him and we will not be deficient! the closer to God we are, the more deficient we know ourselves to be, an d the more dependent we become on the goodness of God. it is God who is not deficient, in holiness, and kindness and mercy towards us. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.