Conditional prophecy and last generation eschatology

[Joshua-]

Greetings all. New to the forum.

I have several ideas I would like to throw out there, but I am not entirely sure the format/context would fully adhere to the requirements of this particular section in the forum. This one seems safe, so I'll throw it out there and look over a few more posts to get a better idea of what exactly is acceptable.

We were born and had to learn all sorts of things early on that we do not remember and rarely give any conscious thought to, because when they work like they should they don't require actual attention to them (proprioception, for example). But it doesn't appear this was the case for Adam. It seems Adam was created 'mature'.

If this is so, that means Adam didn't have to go through the early development that we did, which we cannot remember.

What I am getting at is, if Adam were created fully mature, what do you think his first thought was? We certainly can't recall that, and even if we somehow could, I would be skeptical of it having any meaningful content. But with Adam it would seem to me this wouldn't be the case, because His cognitive thought processes would have been mature. His thought would have had meaning.

If he was created in this manner, fully mature, what would have been his first thought? His first words? "I am"?

edit: lol sorry about the title being at variance with the actual subject of the post. I changed my mind as I was writing it because I wasn't sure it would be in accordance with the rules of this particular forum section.

[M. T. Cross]

I would think his first thought were kind like this (loosely translated into english)

"Whats my name whoa there is god why do all these critters have wives and I don't oh look at that delicious looking fruit on that tree what do you mean I can't eat any and why do I have to pee when I have not even had a drink yet and how do I know how to use words when I am inventing the language" DEEEEEP Breath.

[debbym]

ya a real twist on the topic, i like it.

adam was God's child, new born, and God had the power to give him speech, and he was being actively loved. i believe everything that was created on earth was a love gift to Adam.

i think between a parent and new child there is a very wonderful communion, the parent reflecting into the child they are loved and the child developing in every response to every stimulus the parent provides,

if we have no stimulus we die.

[Tom Wetmore]

Joshua, I like this topic. And I think it fits the whole premise of this forum of original fresh ideas. If you would like I can change the title. Here are a few ideas that quickly come to mind:

What was Adam Thinking?

The Original Original Thought of Adam

Adam Skipped Growing Up

Did God Hardwire Adam with Life Experience

[Joshua-]

Hrm, the 'edit' button has vanished. Is there a edit post time limit set or is there an edit limit of 1?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Wouldn't Adam's first thoughts be somewhat along the same lines as someone who had been deaf (or blind), but had surgery and could now hear (or see)?

Adam certainly hadn't been socialized, but then, he also wasn't exposed to bad habits while in Eden - he had the perfect Parent.. and nobody knows for certain how long he and Eve were in the Garden before they got booted out... I'm imagining that God had plenty of time to do the necessary parenting. He did, after all, make conditions for Adam and Eve - just like all parents do.

[fccool]

I think an obvious question of free will should naturally come up. If the thoughts and knowledge in your head were not processed or put in there by your own thought mechanisms and choices... what choices are you bound to make?

Digging deeper - if all of you pre-existing understanding is not "yours", and it's that understanding that supposed to inform your choices and decisions... which decisions are really "yours"?

[debbym]

we certainly do not choose to be born, or in Adams case to be created.

we do not choose who our parents are, or what conditions we enter when we come to life.

but we do, when our ability to choose develops, choose how we like or do not like what we are given, and what we will do with it.

what we do with life is what we do with our destiny.

[fccool]

I don't think the question about what we don't choose since birth, but about what we do. Our choices form our perception of self, and our understanding of the world, because we learn on bases of choices that we make - which constitute our experience. In short, a large part knowledge is derived from experience.

There's a lot more of choice experience that goes into than you realize.

I can give you brief list here, but it's by no means limited:

- Extensive motor functions

- Language (which encodes quite a bit of acquired meaning)

- Functional interpretation of the world

In that sense, the three above would determine how we would behave in this world. If that information was already pre-filled, then this information would determine our future behavior. The "free will" implies that we acquired this information via some sort of cognitive method that implies being able to reject it.

Let me give you a simple example. Do robots have free will simply because they are able to make a "choice"?

[Joshua-]

[...]If the thoughts and knowledge in your head were not processed or put in there by your own thought mechanisms and choices... what choices are you bound to make?

Digging deeper - if all of you pre-existing understanding is not "yours", and it's that understanding that supposed to inform your choices and decisions... which decisions are really "yours"?

[...]a large part knowledge is derived from experience.

It is so mindboggling to consider.

If I understand it correctly (such a big 'if'- for the sake of discussion assume all statements I make are big 'ifs'), Adam was created in a way to be in unison with God- and yet, Adam certainly couldn't have had all of of the knowledge of God, not having had the experience of God. At least, in my limited mind, I don't see how Adam could ever have truly been a 'carbon copy' of God. What I mean is, apparently God simply is and always has been. But Adam was created.

I believe we were intended to live without death, so, our capacity for growth in intellect and knowledge would also have to be infinite- but mankind had a starting point, so I don't see how we could ever truly be 'eternal'. Even if I continued living tomorrow and never died, I would still have had a beginning and couldn't truly be eternal, though I might inhabit eternity.

So what knowledge did Adam have from the get go? It couldn't have been the full knowledge of God-- at least one thing he lacked was a knowledge of evil. Was he pre-loaded with language? I can't help but think that it would be absolute sensory overload to suddenly pop into existence with such a magnitude of feelings- both physical and emotional. At least to me, it seems like it would be terrifying.

It doesn't seem possible to me that Adam could have had a completely blank slate, as far as knowledge is concerned. At bare minimum there would have been all of the random stuff that controls the unconscious attributes. But what if the mind were so powerful originally that from a totally blank slate it could have processed enough and formed enough connections to build the basic building blocks for interpreting the world within mere seconds?