Textus Receptus Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Take into mind: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Heb 13:8 I have been confronted many times by believers and non believers always defending their arguments with: you can't really be sure that this is what this verse means or the other favorite -- This was written thousands of years ago, it is different today and times have changed. Lastly, things are different since the cross. Does God work in absolutes or can there be a grey area?Here are some of my points. 1. God works in absolutes because to presume there are grey areas is to assume that God doesn’t have the infinite wisdom to have a total understanding of His judgments and there possible implications. As a result, He will at some point have to reevaluate His decisions and alter them according to our needs rather than His will. 2. The reality of grey will ultimately lead humans to assume that He works within the grey realm. Biblical evidence suggests when man is arrogant enough to question God’s decisions; subjectivity has always led to destruction. Subjectivity is to question God’s authority and leaves the prophet's words up to interpretation. 3. If God has grey areas, it is not for us to know and therefore we should only follow God's authority according to the written Word. Your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted October 10, 2013 Members Share Posted October 10, 2013 First we have to determine exactly what is meant by this verse. It seems quite simple and straight forward, but there is also an underlining meaning. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted October 10, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 10, 2013 God is the perfect balance of justice and mercy, righteous and grace. However that fits... Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 First of all, to impose an absolute on God based on an interpretation of a particular verse is like attempting to describe all of the universe in one sentence or less. It's really that limiting. Secondly, you have to understand the provisional nature of any law. Law only works in context of certain environment. For example, if humans didn't have sexual reproduction organs, then laws concerning sexuality would make zero sense. Lastly, as humans we have overblown sense of significance, as though entire being of God revolves around our understanding. Some place God on a literal throne in the Orion constellation somewhere. The silliness of that concept should be quite obvious if we create a God analogy that people can relate to. The closest we can come to God is creating virtual world via film, or computer games. A computer programmer can't live inside the game. It's a silly concept. Computer programmer can act as a "god" by changing the rules around, and inserting his "likeness" inside the game, but that likeness is a mere representation... so there's no way for God to be in that program, because the program does not possess features to fit "God" in it. God is defined as being outside, creating and directing the flow of this world, which from God's perspective is merely a simulation of the laws that were set in place. In that sense, claiming that God works in "absolutes" is to ignore all of the possibilities. How do we know that this universe is the only universe out there? How do we know that there are no infinite number of possibilities, each playing out their own scenarios? Essentially, that's what God is - a complete experience... but for experience (knowledge) to be complete, it has to play out in one form or another. Our universe can be merely one of the movies playing on God's screen, or one video game that God created... out of many possible ones. Claiming that we are special is like characters in the movie claiming that they are the only possible movie and characters out there. It would certainly be an oversimplification and reduction of abilities of Hollywood directors and producers. That's why claiming absolutes with God is somewhat odd, mainly because absolutes are bound by certain provisional rules. For example, the laws that we experience would only be applicable given specific sets of circumstances. Otherwise, these don't apply. In a society where everything is shared in common, demanding that one shouldn't covet neighbor's house is somewhat pointless. If everything is common and shared, then there's nothing to steal. Stealing is only meaningful in context of the personal possession. Thus, even in our universe it's possible to conceive scenarios in which "absolute laws" simply don't apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I agree with much of this in concept...God does not change, nor can any being claim to be God's counselor. I do think "grey areas" exist - but only because the created mind perceives the matter to be "grey". Relative to "grey" issues, we have few issues that are genuinely black and white. Most of what we deal with in life gets "greyed" to some extent. When I shade something "grey", it appears "grey" to the perception. If I were to zoom in on a computer shading of grey, I discover is composed varying degrees of individual black pixels and white pixels. What is "grey" is really a nested collection of absolutes on both sides. I believe the when something is "grey" to us, it is not so "grey" to God, because He can look down into the "grey" and determine the black and white absolutes within the grey, as He is able to discern these complex issues. That is why certain issues that were once "grey" areas when one was younger, get defined into sharper focus as one ages - the receive God's wisdom in discerning the subtle differences. Then, there is the other case as well - when people give up their discernment on what was once defined, and begin to say it's a "grey area" (because they desire to hold on to what they cherish). Food for thought... Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted October 12, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 12, 2013 Ted, I really liked your post. we are vulnerable to getting attached to our view, our perspective, our perception, .... the way we have connected the dots. so many forces and motivations or reasons can contribute to this. have you read the book blink? i believe God is absolute without requiring my understanding to be absolutely perfect. i think God and God's love is much greater then we can understand, and will be taking a long long time to get it... and keep getting it forever. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Textus Receptus Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 Great comments all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted October 21, 2013 Moderators Share Posted October 21, 2013 God generally works in a specific context. It is our job to determine that context and the application to our lives. One might say: 1) There are principles which do not vary, are generalized and for all times and places. 2) There is application which may vary from time, place and circumstances. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restin Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 I believe that God, in dealing with this particular planet, gave us His basic absolutes in the Ten Commandments, like a compass for our life journey, which could go anywhere dangerous or around in fruitless circles without it. Beyond that, life is very complicated and the many shades of grey are in our experiences rather than the "Compass". I also agree with Fccool above that Grace and Righteousness by Faith offer remedy for our many shortcomings before the Law, which functions only as coldly absolute, Also, I agree that though the Law is certain, we can be ever so arrogant and opinionated when we are but so many puppies in God's scheme of things in His universe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Restin- It has been my thoughts that once we ascribe an absolute to God, we box Him in. And then He can not move.... But as CS Lewis described Him, "Aslan is not a tame lion!" Hence, when you allude that God is limited to the Ten Commandments when He does things, then you have problems....like when that one guy touched the ark of the covenant and was struck dead by God. Now you got a problem...about God's character, about His justice, about trusting Him...... He may give those 10 Commandments in our hearts, but what happens when our wives ask us about that dress and how it looks on them [the proverbial "Does this dress make me look fat?"] Do we lie? Do we tell the truth? No, there are exceptions to the rules, even the 10 Commandments...why? because "mercy triumphs Law"....IOWs, Love is what should be the law of the land. and loyalty is better than following jots and tittles of the law....God wants friendship rather than rules and laws.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restin Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I see the point in your response, Neil D. I liked even more that you know who Aslan is!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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