Joshua- Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Has anyone heard about this presentation that was made a few days ago at SEYC 2013 in Collegedale? https://www.audioverse.org/english/sermons/recordings/5240/perils-of-the-emerging-church.html Might take a little bit to start depending on your connection speed.. the video player on audioverse apparently requires the entire video to be downloaded before it starts. Some interesting points are raised, I suppose it boils down to this: How much compromise and of what sort is acceptable? The presentation names names regarding people with considerable influence in various positions in the SDA church who are either knowingly or ignorantly teaching Roman Catholic/Mystic/Jesuit/Ecumenical. It also does make an interesting reference to the Alpha/Omega of apostasy that is worth consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted October 17, 2013 Members Share Posted October 17, 2013 Ah Steve Wohlberg, he's one of those preachers, that whatever he says, is pretty much right on. And being a Jew, he has great insight into the Hebrew roots of the Bible. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted October 17, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 17, 2013 I just happen to have that going at the moment! And yes, he's sure dishing it out! I was curious also as to what he had to say... Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I haven't seen that in my local Church, yet. But don't worry, we have a large share of every other wind of doctrine blowing so we don't feel left out. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted October 20, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 20, 2013 i suspect the dangers of the emergent Church is that they offer righteousness by experience of God's presence, righteousness by meditation, righteousness by prayer, righteousness by anything other then righteousness by faith in the merits of Christ is still righteousness by works. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 To any Again...we are dishing out condemnation of 'emerging church' with definition! If one wishes to condemn something, be specific as to what exactly one finds wrong. To through out the phrase in such a manner is to cast doubt on many people having an experience with God. The phrase has become a 'catch-all' for anything people disagree with, waiting for the nodding of heads! Really??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted October 20, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 20, 2013 Ah Steve Wohlberg, he's one of those preachers, that whatever he says, is pretty much right on. And being a Jew, he has great insight into the Hebrew roots of the Bible. Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Even SUNDAY keeping Churches are becoming concerned with this "movement". May I suggest it would not be a good idea to wait for the Sunday keeping Churches to inform us as to whether this a good or bad idea or what,if anything, we should do about it? But I could be wrong... The very best lies contain a large amount of truth, mixed with error. Devil tested, it's a guarenteed method to fool even the very elect. "...the “emerging” (lowercase “e”) movement has a huge number of facets, and isn’t easy to clearly define—but in an effort to breakdown what the emerging church is all about, here’s an abbreviated history and explanation of its common beliefs." More on this from CBN: http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/churchandministry/carey_emerging_church.aspx My preferred source for this kind of info would be someone like Steve Wolhberg, but thats just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 To any Again...we are dishing out condemnation of 'emerging church' with definition! If one wishes to condemn something, be specific as to what exactly one finds wrong. To through out the phrase in such a manner is to cast doubt on many people having an experience with God. The phrase has become a 'catch-all' for anything people disagree with, waiting for the nodding of heads! Really??? Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Quote: Devil tested, it's a guarenteed method to fool even the very elect. That of course is , if it were possible. "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Matthew 24:24 KJV If one is reading the Word with intent to glorify God and depending on His Holy Spirit to fit them into His plan for them, no worry. "For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. "1 Thess 5:3-5 NKJV God cares! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Thanks LC. I am downloading this right now. Great talk -- from the heart. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Had to chuckle... I wondered if anyone would catch that... "That of course is , if it were possible." Perhaps the question should be, who ARE the "elect" and are you one of them? What if your not? What if you will be, someday, but your not when the devils time tested methods come to visit? How do you know? Lest, you find yourself deceived, some things to consider! Rhetorical questions of course. Deceptions will be SO difficult to discern the bible and the testimony will not always readily work for you. No matter how good a scholar you think you are! Nope, your ONLY hope will be the Holy Spirit working within you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rev184 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Good sermon, I've seen this stuff push people in the direction of jumping out of the boat toward SDR. Watched it on you tube. The elect in those days : 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.32 Remember Lot's wife.33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. Luke 17:29-34 Quote comeout ofher mypeople Rev18:4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Had to chuckle... I wondered if anyone would catch that... "That of course is , if it were possible." Perhaps the question should be, who ARE the "elect" and are you one of them? Rhetorical questions of course. Deceptions will be SO difficult to discern the bible and the testimony will not always readily work for you. No matter how good a scholar you think you are! This helps a person to know whether they are one of the elect. "Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. " Colossians 3:12,13 NKJV If this is the fruit one is bearing, he can be assured the Holy Spirit is working in his/her life. Being a good scholar hasn't as much to do with it as where the heart lies, the scribes and pharisees being good scholars but the murder in their heart led them to murder the Lord of glory. Also this below are telling attributes of the elect. "In Him you also who have heard the Word of Truth, the glad tidings (Gospel) of your salvation, and have believed in and adhered to and relied on Him, were stamped with the seal of the long-promised Holy Spirit. That [spirit] is the guarantee of our inheritance [the firstfruits, the pledge and foretaste, the down payment on our heritage], in anticipation of its full redemption and our acquiring [complete] possession of it—to the praise of His glory."Ephesians 1:13-15 AMP brackets parenthesis their's LHC Just as the serpent has his mark, our Father has His seal on His elect. What one needs to be assured of his place among the elect, is trust in what Jesus says. Eve believed the serpent and was led to disbelieve her Creator. It isn't any different today except for the intensity and proliferation of the deceit. Trust God first with all the knowledge you do have, and the knowledge you don't have will be made up for by the grace of Jesus. "And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me." 2 Corinthians 12:9 NASB I guess what every person must ask themselves is whether they are going to trust their Father to fulfill what He has promised. "Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness, in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago, but at the proper time manifested, even His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior," Titus 1:1-3 NASB God cares! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rev184 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Every one who has passed from death unto life is able to “set to his seal that God is true.” John 3:33. He can testify, “I needed help, and I found it in Jesus. Every want was supplied, the hunger of my soul was satisfied; and now the Bible is to me the revelation of Jesus Christ. Do you ask why I believe in Jesus?—Because He is to me a divine Saviour. Why do I believe the Bible?—Because I have found it to be the voice of God to my soul.” We may have the witness in ourselves that the Bible is true, that Christ is the Son of God. We know that we are not following cunningly devised fables. Faith I Live By Ellen White we do not need a experience to be saved we need to be saved to have the experience. Steve Wohlberg Quote comeout ofher mypeople Rev18:4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Good sermon, I've seen this stuff push people in the direction of jumping out of the boat toward SDR. Watched it on you tube. Did you mean SRA? G Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted October 21, 2013 Moderators Share Posted October 21, 2013 I wish my church would do some more emerging. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Indeed you do, Sir. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 21, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 21, 2013 That raises an interesting thought. What would be the opposite of an emerging church? Without regard to all of the pejorative meanings ascribed to "emerging" in this discussion here is the dictionary meaning: emerging (adjective) : newly created or noticed and growing in strength or popularity : becoming widely known or established And here are some antonyms for "emerging" - abandoning, decreasing, disappearing, dropping, falling, going, hiding, leaving, lessening, ending, finishing, trickling, fading There is a real sense of an emerging church as one coming out of another, as in "Come out of her my people." So, the opposite would seem to be a sense of complacency or remaining where or as one is currently. Wasn't the Reformation and Protestantism in general an emerging church? Perhaps much of the resistance to the emerging church movement has more to do with being resistant to change or progress and a preference for clinging to tradition. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted October 21, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 21, 2013 Quote: "Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. "- Colossians 3:12,13, NKJV I really like this! Johann 1 Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted October 21, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 21, 2013 the false system puts humanity, human thought, human action, human wisdom, human power in place of the divine. it lowers the ceiling and glorifies humanity. it can use all the vernacular of the scriptures while doing this. when Jesus left the earth and entered the heavenly sanctuary, all believers looked to the heavenly sanctuary where Christ was, and directed their prayers to heaven, and were empowered from heaven. and all believers were a kingdom of priests, all believers..... offering spiritual sacrifices, dying on the alter daily with Christ, and serving in heavenly places. the enemy has been devising and establishing systems of "christian" worship and devotion, forgiveness, and healing with an earthly high priest, a "holy spirit" that gives "power and light", and a system of priesthood that follows the order of an earthly high priest. placing humanity and human efforts in the place of God's divine order. the worship of Christ as Creator, Sustainer, Redeemer, Intercessor, and cleansing High Priest in heaven ministering the final atonement in the life of every believer has been greatly lost. the replacement of human effort in the name of Christ, for the work of Christ in the heart and life is only increasing in popularity. Christ endured the contradiction of sinners against Himself. God is forbearing and merciful to all who get involved in these forms of vain worship. He will make known the truth Of the salvation in Jesus alone to all, and all who are willing will respond. The glory of man will be laid in the dust, and if we are willing, individually we can have this marvelous experience now. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted October 21, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 21, 2013 Thank you, Deb, for saying what I have also thought... This idea about doing something in order to produce a God-experience, to bring down God, so-to-speak, is quite different from approaching God's throne in faith of the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour in humility. The question I have considering each case is, Who is claiming the power? I think of the EC concept as a "conjuring up" of God, which differs from, say, the quick prayer of Nehemiah or the simple prayer of Elijah on the mount. I could be wrong- one can only judge as well as the information one has. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Sooooo.......we could say that a peril of an emerging church is that people still want status quo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 In the 1840's the advent movement may have been the emerging church.. just a thought. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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