Landmark survey reveals in-depth beliefs, perceptions of Adventist members

[Textus Receptus]

http://news.adventist.org/all-news/news/...entist-members/

[kailooa]

It's so interesting to see the shift toward love and acceptance in the church body, at times despite church leadership and policies.

The one that's personal for me is the lack of follow-up with members who have stopped attending.

[ClubV12]

There's good new and bad news in the study. Bad news, devastating actually, is that half of young people would accept actively gay people into membership of the Church.

Love and acceptance is a substantial part of our primary message as Seventh-day Adventists as demonstrated in the three angels messages. His judgment has come, fear God, keep His commandments, for why will you die?

It is sad that many who have left, for whatever reason, are not followed up with. Each individual Church needs to be more active in that regard. In some cases, the inspired counsel has been, let them go. We cannot lower the standard of what it means to be a Christian, what it means to be a Seventh-day Adventist to the very dust.

Lots of folks call themselves Christians, the word has very little real meaning anymore. A number of people in my local Church actively fight against the organized Church. They refuse to join as official members of the Church. On occasion I have had to explain to my Sabbath School class (when visitors are present) that someone calling themselves a Seventh-day Adventist are not members of the Church. They don't reflect the beliefs of the Church, they don't speak for the Church. Obviously this has led to some serious disputes, so be it. Those preaching a false doctrine, handing out false doctrine literature in Church, need to be made aware. They are deceiving others. Each case must be handled carefully, but at some point, it MUST be handled. A recent case resulted in a man being asked to not return to Church. And that was the right thing to do.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

Bad news, devastating actually, is that half of young people would accept actively gay people into membership of the Church.

Sooo...which practising sinners should not be allowed in the church? Yes, I know we have been down this road many times on the forums....but.....

If we are talking about the .org, then the people have to abide by the rules of the .org. I have no problem with that. But if we are saying that sinners, practicing gays, can't be part of Christ Church, then what hope is there for anyone? We have no perfection of our own. We are held accountably to God for the understanding we recive as individuals. So, I do not see it as bad news or devastating that the younger generation is more accepting. They quite often feel less judgemental and more forgiving. They also see God and the individual as being the important issue rather than being in or out of the .org.

[kailooa]

I totally, 100%, completely agree with CoAspen. What I think is devastating is that there are still so many people in the SDA church who think their job is to judge and condemn rather than to love and accept. I guess they just don't trust God to do his job. If the SDA church is not the place where people can expect to be treated with God's love, well, that's truly devastating to the SDA church.

[JoeMo]

I am in total agreement with CoAspen and kailooa. If we excluded everyone with a character flaw or sin issue from membership,the church would be an empty and lonely place.

For those of you who disagree with me, are you saying sinners (especially GLBT's, for goodness sake!) must get their act together before they come to Christ? In other words, they must cleanse themselve from the outside in of their "sin"?

I believe we must realize the impossibility of being able to change ourselves (like a leopard changing its spots). When we realize the futility of self sin management, we turn to Christ, and trust His grace to change anything that needs changing from the inside out. And by the way, there are A LOT more sins out there than gay behavior - like self-righteousness, pride, condemnation, etc. Should gossipers and people who tell "little white lies" or talk about football on Sabbath be excluded from church membership too?

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

if we are saying that sinners, practicing gays, can't be part of Christ Church, then what hope is there for anyone? We have no perfection of our own. We are held accountably to God for the understanding we recive as individuals.

As a sinner, we ask for cleansing through the blood of Jesus, and then ask for repentance for our sinful conduct. If the gay individual cooperates with God on that score, he will be brought by Jesus into practiced behavior that will keep the kingdom safe for all.

God cares!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

there are A LOT more sins out there than gay behavior - like self-righteousness, pride, condemnation, etc. Should gossipers and people who tell "little white lies" or talk about football on Sabbath be excluded from church membership too?

And are you saying if I tell a little white lie or gossip now and then, it's OK for others to practice their sinful conduct with impunity, until I get my act together?

"Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things."Romans 2:2 NASB

God cares!

[Textus Receptus]

Accept all, love all without condoning the sin, and let the Holy Spirit convict.

[ClubV12]

Coming to Church and being a MEMBER of the Church are two different things.

The requirements for Church MEMBERSHIP are detailed in the Church manual. The Holy Spirit has already spoken, conviction, of the requirements. Through the counsel of the brethren, the rules of the Church. Along with the requirements for disfellowship. Loving someone does not mean you have to marry them!

This is typical for any Church, or the Moose Club or the Hells Angels, it's just common sense. If you don't like the rules, don't join the organization. If you want the benefits of the organization but prefer to murmur and complain and cause division, God will take care of the problem in due time. He will purify the Church. Just like He purified Israel for forty years as they wandered around the wilderness. Everyone over 20 years old, died.

Be careful what you ask for, He just might give it to you.

We can love someone living in "open sin", but we cannot allow them to become a member.

[Textus Receptus]

Coming to Church and being a MEMBER of the Church are two different things.

The requirements for Church MEMBERSHIP are detailed in the Church manual. The Holy Spirit has already spoken, conviction, of the requirements. Through the counsel of the brethren, the rules of the Church. Along with the requirements for disfellowship. Loving someone does not mean you have to marry them!

This is typical for any Church, or the Moose Club or the Hells Angels, it's just common sense. If you don't like the rules, don't join the organization. If you want the benefits of the organization but prefer to murmur and complain and cause division, God will take care of the problem in due time. He will purify the Church. Just like He purified Israel for forty years as they wandered around the wilderness. Everyone over 20 years old, died.

Be careful what you ask for, He just might give it to you.

I was actually going to mention that caveat but felt it was understood. Yes, membership is a tottally different can of worms so to speak.

[ClubV12]

"Should gossipers and people who tell "little white lies" or talk about football on Sabbath be excluded from church membership too?"

The Church Manual deals with exactly these kinds of issues. IT, apparently unlike some on this thread, actually does "draw a line in the sand". IT actually has acceptable and unacceptable standards of conduct and rules to deal with violations as may be required by the Church Board. Like an active gay lifestyle person desiring membership vs that jerk you don't like because he/she gossips to much.

From the study:

• Almost half of college students and recent college graduates said they would accept practicing homosexuals as church members in good and regular standing.

Very clear here they are talking about MEMBERSHIP, in good and regular standing. That is, they could be Head Elder, Sabbath School teacher, Primary leader even PASTOR!

[cricket]

Does it occur to anyone that the "half of college students and recent college graduates [who] said they would accept practicing homosexuals as church members in good and regular standing" may NOT consider homosexuality to be sinful behavior? It might just be that those young adults are not willing to accept open sinners into regular membership, but are willing to allow homosexuals into the church with full membership BECAUSE they do not believe that homosexuality is a sin in the first place.

[ClubV12]

Perhaps THAT is the question that should have been asked in the study! I ask it now.

IS homosexuality a sin, or not?

If it is, then those who are engaged in it, openly, are engaged in open sin. As such, they would not, by the Church Manual, be authorized to join as a member. If they were a member, they would have to be considered for disfellowship.

"Open sin" is not some gray area, it is open for all to see. Open sin demands action by the Church, as per Pauls counsel.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

We can love someone living in "open sin", but we cannot allow them to become a member.

Shall I love them so much that I allow them to go to all services of the church while permitting them to practice their deeds of sinfulness and don't warn others of the possibility of reaping the result of their misbehavior? What if they practice serial killing in their off hours, known to happen in general society in this United States.

God cares!

[phkrause]

Perhaps THAT is the question that should have been asked in the study! I ask it now.

IS homosexuality a sin, or not?

If it is, then those who are engaged in it, openly, are engaged in open sin. As such, they would not, by the Church Manual, be authorized to join as a member. If they were a member, they would have to be considered for disfellowship.

"Open sin" is not some gray area, it is open for all to see. Open sin demands action by the Church, as per Pauls counsel.

Absolutely it is sin! I believe that the Bible condemns the sin but not the sinner.

[ClubV12]

I think you mean, God hates the sin and loves the sinner.

The bible, the great law by which all men are judged, pronounces a sentence of death on the sin and the sinner.

God loves all the sinners who must perish because of their sin, but perish they will. Repentance is a requirement of salvation. Must the sinner wait until he/she can repent? Must this act of repentance become a barrier between God and man? No, no, even repentance cannot be found without the saving grace and mercy of our Lord. Come to Him, ask Him to help your unbelief, He will surely direct your steps into a repentance that needs not to be repented of. Trust Him, He loves you.

[phkrause]

I think you mean, God hates the sin and loves the sinner.

Yes Club, that's what I meant, thanks for clarifying my poor American language. :)

[OzarkWoman]

It's so interesting to see the shift toward love and acceptance in the church body, at times despite church leadership and policies.

The one that's personal for me is the lack of follow-up with members who have stopped attending.

Me too. Not one person, let alone the pastor has called, texted or come by since I left the church. That told me all I needed to know.

[Gail]

OzarkWoman, you do have many friends here... At times when you are not around I do miss you.

:)

[OzarkWoman]

OzarkWoman, you do have many friends here... At times when you are not around I do miss you.

Thank you Gail. I have been having Bible studies with a family who wanted to be baptized as an SDA, but they quit going to the church because of the way they were treated and how the church treated others. I must say it is the church I left. Tomorrow I am taking them to a different SDA church. The problem is that it is 1 1/2 hour drive. LOLOLOL

[Gail]

I kinda hear, I think, what Club is saying. Jesus said, Come unto me all ye who labour and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.

He tells us to take His yoke upon us and learn of Him, for He is meek and lowly of heart and He will give us rest. The reason He said is that His yoke is easy and His burden light.

He would like for us to trade our yokes, our burdens, with Him. Whatever that means to each one.

The burden of sin is far too hard for anyone to bear for very long. Either it will overtake us ourselves or it will overtake our relationships, our material goods and finally anything we might hold dear in this life.

I would hate to have the job of deciding who is in good and regular standing. But I guess someone has to do it. But I would like to see many more encouraged by words of Christ. I would be toast if not for them!

I don't think it a great idea to give prizes (such as membership) to the person who can best hide their faults. But I am very willing to be patient with those who confess their weaknesses, and encourage them to connect anew with the source of righteousness.

If I was in such a position that I needed it that is how I would like to be treated.

[Gail]

Originally Posted By: Gail

OzarkWoman, you do have many friends here... At times when you are not around I do miss you.

Thank you Gail. I have been having Bible studies with a family who wanted to be baptized as an SDA, but they quit going to the church because of the way they were treated and how the church treated others. I must say it is the church I left. Tomorrow I am taking them to a different SDA church. The problem is that it is 1 1/2 hour drive. LOLOLOL

Bless your heart for your kindness! May you be blessed as you sacrifice! In our area we have a few churches to choose from. There are some times when a particular one just doesn't work out due to human frailty or clash in personality. I am glad that you found the friends you have, because when relationships (even church ones) are not peaceful it can really affect one's spirituality. I hope that you and your friends will gain blessings from your church life. I am so glad you all have each other!

[kailooa]

OzarkWoman, I am happy to see you here. I appreciate your forthrightness and authenticity.

[kailooa]

As far as whether homosexuality is a sin: What if, through prayer and Bible study and in communion with the Holy Spirit as I experience it, I become convicted that homosexuality is NOT a sin? What then? Who can come between me and God?

Better to love people and respect their walk with God than to condemn and ostracize them. None of us have the corner on truth or enlightenment. Why must we believe in lockstep as a prerequisite to worshiping together as a community?

Yes, I realize that a function of organized religions is usually to draw dark lines around their definitions of sin, and to exclude everyone who differs in opinion on any matter whatsoever. Thanks for reminding me why I have so little use for organized religion and, sadly, the religion I love and largely agree with.