What is cooking on Sabbath

[AnotherMan]

What defines cooking on Sabbath, cooking nowdays is different.

What if we have precut oven potato chips to bake them in a oven is that cooking?

egw said reheating food is okay, So if it takes 10 min to cook oven chips vs reheating food where does God draw the line?

[Naomi]

[Gregory Matthews]

This question is one that each must decide for themselves. It is not for me to decide for another.

When I was a single parent, with two small children living with me, we attended a church that had a potluck every Sabbath. I did more cooking and baking Sabbath morning before I went to church than some people thought appropriate. I probably never spent more than 20-30 minutes. But, I had something of value to contribute to the potluck. To this day I do not consider what I did wrong. My contributions helped to continue the weekly potlucks which contributed to the congregation being considered a friendly congregation that welcomed visitors and others who needed a meal.

NOTE: I said others who needed a meal.

There were some times when I prepared dishes ahead of time. Sometimes I would bring my homemade Kimchi to the potluck. That took me 3 - 4 weeks to prepare and to reach the right level of fermentation. There was no last minute with that.

Yes, whenever I brought my Kimchi, the entire congregation would know that I had done so well before the dinner hour.

Yes, the Koreans in the congregation all ate my Kimchi.

Folks, there are many things in life and religion that are between the individual and God and are not to be decided by others.

[Gregory Matthews]

This thread has stimulated my thinking.

I will suggest that there are many aspects of our religious life that are between us and God. Let me mention a couple:

1) Sabbath morning I receive a telephone call from a family who has an emergent need for transportation to church. We own two cars. One is a small vehicle, with a full gas tank, but is will only hold my family. The second is a large 8-passenger car, that through no fault of my own does not have enough gas in the tank to get to church. If I am to take this family, with an emergent need for transportation to church, I will have to use the larger vehicle and purchase gasoline before I go to church.

2) Back to my previous post. My two children were with their mother. I go to a church service Friday evening. There is a large youth group who needs housing so they can do the service the next day. We, few people at that Friday evening service need to house them.

I take two after telling them that they are going to have to sleep on the floor. They accept. Then I have to go out and purchase some food for them to eat Sabbath morning because I was not prepared for two extra people. I was only prepared for the simple breakfast that I would have eaten myself. They needed better. It was not a lack of preparation on my part that resulted in we being asked to house them Friday evening.

[Gregory Matthews]

So, if I told my two guests that they would have to sleep on the floor, what did my two children sleep on when they were with me.

One slept on a camp cot, the other slept on the floor. They traded off each week.

With them with their mother, I no longer had the camp cot and my two guests each had to sleep on the floor.

Now you know.

People do what they have to do to survive and in my case to keep family together as much as possible.

[phkrause]

This question is one that each must decide for themselves. It is not for me to decide for another.

When I was a single parent, with two small children living with me, we attended a church that had a potluck every Sabbath. I did more cooking and baking Sabbath morning before I went to church than some people thought appropriate. I probably never spent more than 20-30 minutes. But, I had something of value to contribute to the potluck. To this day I do not consider what I did wrong. My contributions helped to continue the weekly potlucks which contributed to the congregation being considered a friendly congregation that welcomed visitors and others who needed a meal.

NOTE: I said others who needed a meal.

There were some times when I prepared dishes ahead of time. Sometimes I would bring my homemade Kimchi to the potluck. That took me 3 - 4 weeks to prepare and to reach the right level of fermentation. There was no last minute with that.

Yes, whenever I brought my Kimchi, the entire congregation would know that I had done so well before the dinner hour.

Yes, the Koreans in the congregation all ate my Kimchi.

Folks, there are many things in life and religion that are between the individual and God and are not to be decided by others.

exactly Gregory.

[phkrause]

This thread has stimulated my thinking.

I will suggest that there are many aspects of our religious life that are between us and God. Let me mention a couple:

1) Sabbath morning I receive a telephone call from a family who has an emergent need for transportation to church. We own two cars. One is a small vehicle, with a full gas tank, but is will only hold my family. The second is a large 8-passenger car, that through no fault of my own does not have enough gas in the tank to get to church. If I am to take this family, with an emergent need for transportation to church, I will have to use the larger vehicle and purchase gasoline before I go to church.

2) Back to my previous post. My two children were with their mother. I go to a church service Friday evening. There is a large youth group who needs housing so they can do the service the next day. We, few people at that Friday evening service need to house them.

I take two after telling them that they are going to have to sleep on the floor. They accept. Then I have to go out and purchase some food for them to eat Sabbath morning because I was not prepared for two extra people. I was only prepared for the simple breakfast that I would have eaten myself. They needed better. It was not a lack of preparation on my part that resulted in we being asked to house them Friday evening.

Again Gregory great post

[Gregory Matthews]

Just a personal note: My personal illustrations were taken from events in my life of many years back. They are not current. IOW, I do not want anyone to attach meaning to the present church I attend.

I am presently married for some 27 years to this woman.

[OzarkWoman]

This question is one that each must decide for themselves. It is not for me to decide for another.

Folks, there are many things in life and religion that are between the individual and God and are not to be decided by others.

[Gail]

I usually go by the rule of thumb of, whatever is merciful and good, do it, not EVEN on the Sabbath but ESPECIALLY on the Sabbath.

There are some things that can wait and there are some things that are merciful. Making something up to eat for unexpected company is more merciful than making them go hungry!

We have prayed that our small meal feed the whole group and that has worked for us, too! :)

[JamesOrlando]

Its not about legality... what we can and can't do.

Its about having a rest from the *mundane*.

Is it a chore for you to bake your chips? Does it feel like labor?

Or is it a treat?

The Jews used to ask:

Is it OK to pick up a rock on Sabbath? ...NO

Is it OK to pick up a baby on Sabbath? ...YES

Is it OK to pick up a baby that's holding a rock on Sabbath? ...NO.

As Christians, we are told that Sabbath was made for man. That doesn't mean we should abuse it.

But we don't have to be concerned with this type of questioning.

As long as it is restful and not mundane, then have a great time.

And whilst secular TV is restful...it is mundane and therefore just as wrong.

Both sentiments have to be there.

[JamesOrlando]

Also what feels like rest to one person, feels like a chore to another.

What feels special to one person, feels like the mundane to another.

Go figure how you can put a set of defining legislation to that!

[Miss Jessie]

Instead of hashing it out with your own opinions, you should all study it out in the Bible to find out what is appropriate, and what is not.

And keep in mind these things:

1. In the end, when Christ comes again, it doesn't matter how justified you are in the eyes of others, or how condemned you are in the eyes of others. What matters is whether or not you are justified in the eyes of Christ/God. So you should not be trying to justify your Sabbath activities, or anything for that matter, to the internet world or anyone else.

2. Take it up with the Lord, instead of trying to convince others that your views on this subject are okay. The Lord may not have revealed to you what He has revealed to others, and you may convince others, or give them excuses, to go against what God actually as convicted them of, and it's never safe to go against your God-given convictions, especially if you know they measure up to the Bible. Even if you can do certain things on the Sabbath, other people may not be safe doing the same things.

3. The Sabbath is about acknowledging the creator, as well as spending time with and getting to know Him. He has laid out plans for how His Sabbath should be kept. On top of that, it shouldn't be spent doing anything that takes your mind off of Christ, or your time away from getting to know Him and His words/requirement, as well as witnessing to others, sharing your faith and your relationship with Christ, or doing good for others. It should not be spent in personal gain or personal profit, advertising, business, etc. If you would like to see Scripture and Ellen White sources, please say so. I would be looking for some if I had more time to give a study on it. I, too, am guilty of violating God's Sabbath, so I do not speak as one who is perfect, but as one who is learning, and to whom God has revealed much.

4. There are things God says not to do, and those things we should not do. But besides not doing those things, we should be learning of Him, sharing Him, and helping the less fortunate.

5. There are things that God has not been so specific about. Some things may be "safe" for some, while not safe for others, but these are not things that God has told us specifically not to do.

6. God says to "remember the Sabbath". We should be preparing for the Sabbath ahead of time, and doing what is possible to get done before Sabbath, and laying aside the things that can wait. This does not excuse things that people think can't wait, and surviving and/or preserving your life is not a good excuse to violate the Sabbath. After all, isn't there a law coming where people who do not violate God's law, who prefer to keep God's law, will be in danger of losing their lives? What does the Bible say about how the people should react? They should keep God's law, even at the danger of losing their lives...So if we buy food on the Sabbath now, or work on the Sabbath now, for survival, how will we be able to drop those habits or excuses when our lives really are in danger? Plus, it's also about trust, we should trust God to provide. And people aren't usually going to starve to death over night or even in the morning. They can wait a few hours if you really don't have any food. If they are to the point of dying from starvation, they are most likely also at the point where they need the nutrients pumped directly into their veins and stomach, and need a hospital. If it's about hospitality, I believe it will be a better witness to explain that you hadn't been expecting company, to explain your convictions on the Sabbath, and do your best to put together something for them if you do have food. If you really only had enough for breakfast for yourself, you could try to divide it up. However, if you had enough money to buy food for them on Sabbath, it means you're probably not too poor to have some other food in the pantry. You can dig up something that might not usually be eaten for breakfast, such as a lunch item or something, and get creative. Maybe grilled cheese and tomato soup?

Even if such an excuse can be justified in that isolated case, and maybe some other cases, God is the judge, and He may not accept that excuse for others who are not well enough prepared, but who could have been, and this could be made into an excuse for many to willfully violate or not be prepared for the Sabbath. Such thinking can be dangerous.

If you need to see supportive Bible verses and Ellen White quotes, I will supply them, but that may take some time. I recommend studying it out yourself, however. God cannot be outsmarted with human logic.

[Miss Jessie]

Okay...Here are some references, so that we don't have to be hashing it out with our own opinions.

Exodus 20: 8-11, Deuteronomy 5: 12-14, Nehemiah 10: 31 and 13: 15-22, Psalms 92, Isaiah 58: 13-14, Isaiah 66:23, Jeremiah 17:21-22, Read all of Matthew 12. Jesus talks about what is okay to do on the Sabbath, but He isn't saying that man can do whatever he wants on the Sabbath. Matthew 24:20, Mark 2: 28, Christ was saying that He is Lord of the Sabbath. He was not saying that the Sabbath was a day where men could do whatever they wanted. Mark 3: 4, Mark 6, 2. Jesus actually observed the Sabbath, and He showed how it could be done, in teaching and healing. But nowhere here does He say that buying (although it could seem like a good thing) anything is okay. If you notice in the gospels, the Jews were accusing Christ of breaking the Sabbath day. These Jews were the ones that persecuted Christ. Will we do the same by saying that Christ broke the Sabbath, when He came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17).

There's so much more, plus the prophecies in Revelation and Ellen White has a lot to say on the subject. God had told people in Exodus to prepare their manna that they picked double of (which He ordered them to) on the day before Sabbath, and He preserved it on Sabbath. He didn't remove that law when He allowed His disciples to pick grain. Picking a handful of grain for a snack is considerably less time consuming than harvesting manna and baking bread or making porridge. They were walking and talking with Christ, and nibbling at the same time. They had that fellowship with Christ while they were eating, and the picking and eating wasn't much different, from my understanding, than cracking some walnuts while you listen to Jesus/read your Bible.

And it's about knowing Christ. Luke 13: 26-27. If you are wasting that Sabbath in bed, or watching Animal Planet, you are still wasting the Sabbath. That's not saying that you shouldn't take a nap if you are exhausted, but if you aren't getting to know Christ, you are breaking His Sabbath.

And following your heart is not the way to go, according to the Bible. Jeremiah 17:9, Proverbs 14: 13.

[Gregory Matthews]

Background: My wife and I own (some years ago) two automobiles. One is an 8 passenger vehicle and the other is a 4-passenger small car. We have two sons.

My practice is to have both vehicles full of gasoline early on Friday afternoon. But, this weekend, due to not wanting to purchase gasoline near sundown, our small car is full and the other vehicle is running on fumes. Well, the small car is enough for our 4-person family to go to church.

Sabbath morning we get a telephone call from a family (Just before we are going to leave for church.) that would like to attend church and need transportation.

What do you think that I should do?

Well, I could take my family to church, and come back to pick them up. They would miss Sabbath School if I did that.

I can't call others and ask them to take them to church as others are already on the way to church.

I guess that I could tell to stay home and read the Bible verses on proper Sabbath keeping?

I could put a gallon of water in the tank and ask God to convert it to gasoline, and then tell my story in church?

Or, I could do what I think a reasonable God would expect me to do, which is what I did.

[Green Cochoa]

Over here, cooking happens on Sabbath. There's really no way around it. You simply do not have tasty rice if you cooked it the day before. It's very difficult to reheat rice and have it still be palatable (not too dehydrated and cruchy (hard as rocks, more like), and not too sopping wet either).

And what do you do with blanched vegetables? Even trying to cut them on Friday doesn't work well, because then they become very wilted by the next day and/or totally dessicated or browned, or they begin to spoil, having had their life-support cut-off from them.

People here do not have microwave ovens, much less an oven of any sort. So, no reheating of a Sabbath loaf or baking of tater tots.

Yes, God is reasonable. We do try to minimize the work on Sabbath, but some things simply cannot be helped ahead of time.

For those of you who live with modern conveniences, be thankful for the greater relaxation you can afford on Sabbath. Take advantage of it.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Miss Jessie]

I'm trying to say it's really not something you should be trying to explain to everyone else, because God is your judge. Even if those are exemptions for you, they may not be for others, but if you have others who are more convinced, they might try to apply those to themselves.

I don't know if this text applies to this context, but here...

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:" ~Colossians 2:16!

" When the Sabbath commences, we should place a guard upon ourselves, upon our acts and our words, lest we rob God by appropriating to our own use that time which is strictly the Lord's. We should not do ourselves, nor suffer our children to do, any manner of our own work for a livelihood or anything which could have been done on the six working days. Friday is the day of preparation. Time can then be devoted to making the necessary preparation for the Sabbath and to thinking and conversing about it. Nothing which will in the sight of Heaven be regarded as a violation of the holy Sabbath should be left unsaid or undone, to be said or done upon the Sabbath. God requires not only that we refrain from physical labor upon the Sabbath, but that the mind be disciplined to dwell upon sacred themes. " ~ Child Guidance, around page 530~

This is really something that each individual has a responsibility to study out, but by trying to justify the things you do on Sabbath, you are giving others (whether you realize it or not) the excuse to do the same, when even if you are excused by God to do those things, others may not be.

If you feel a need to explain why you do things on Sabbath, then you shouldn't be explaining it to everyone else, unless you cause them to stumble, but instead should be explaining it to God and asking God that, if you are wrong, to show you a better way, but if you are not wrong, then you are not breaking God's Sabbath, and there isn't a sin there to be forgiven.

Our opinion isn't what condemns or gets you into heaven. It's how God sees it, and whether or not God accepts that excuse, so it's a matter that should be taken privately to the Lord.

[cricket]

What defines cooking on Sabbath, cooking nowdays is different.

What if we have precut oven potato chips to bake them in a oven is that cooking?

egw said reheating food is okay, So if it takes 10 min to cook oven chips vs reheating food where does God draw the line?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Friday is the day of preparation. Time can then be devoted to making the necessary preparation for the Sabbath and to thinking and conversing about it.

That's fine, but lots of people have jobs that require them to be working on Fridays at their employment, and many don't get home until after sundown.

I think it's best to let people be convicted in their own minds as to what's good and proper to do on the Sabbath..

[Gregory Matthews]

Miss Jessie:

Certainly this is an issue that is between the individual and God and we should not judge another.

Yet, the Bible tells Christians that there is value in fellowship.

I will suggest that there is value in people discussing how they have come to a conclusion and understanding.

I find that to be personally true for me.

People sometimes give me something to think about that I have not previously considered.

[Aliensanctuary]

The "no gathering of firewood to cook food on Sabbath" command just points to the next life when there will be no need to prepare or cook food on the Sabbath day. While it may be unclear what we should do in this life, it will be crystal clear in the next.