SooutheasternCalifornia elects female Conference President.

[CyberGuy]

Cyberguy repeats a typical claim heard from the W.0. camp,

"So yes the churches are following the rules Ted Wilson set forth that only a Union can authorize ordaining of women. That is being done."

No, they are not.

They are not following the greater law nor are they following the spirit of the law. The greater law that applies is that the Unions will work in harmony with G.C. Clearly, many are not doing this.

This is EXACTLY the kind of work JUDAS did, make whatever inference you want there. But the principles are identical. He would very subtly introduce conflict and controversy into the discussions and thus lead the apostles into confusion. He constantly found "loop holes" in the law to exploit and justify his actions.

The issue here is no longer ordination, it is outright rebellion and disdain for the authority of those appointed by God over the Unions. By this fruit alone, those with spiritual discernment will be able to see what spirit drives W.O.

So when SECC voted to pay women the same as men before the Mary Kay lawsuit which was out of harmony with what the GC was doing that was rebellion right? In those Days Neil Wilson Ted Wilsons father was GC president. The Rebellion word was thrown around then as well. Now we are strangely silent about that part of our SDA History

One has to be very careful when one starts throwing the rebellion word into what conferences and Unions do.

Remember that Paul when he said that Greeks did not have to be circumcised was out of harmony with church leadership at that time as well. Was Paul in Rebellion as well?

What is called Rebellion today is considered moral and accepted principles tomorrow.

Anyway all these are moot points. As I pointed out. Sandy Roberts was elected SECC president. She has gotten her materials for voting at the GC Fall council. Monday we shall see how this all plays out. We shall see if The Union is right that Ted Wilson has to allow Sandy to vote as a Union delegate or if Ted Wilson was just trying to intimidate and failed.

All other name calling and calling people rebels is pointless and non productive.

[olger]

On a side note. Today on facebook we learned that Sandy Roberts SECC newly elected president received her GC folder with the voting materials. Maybe that is a good sign.

Many of those delegates would have voted for anything in a dress to further the cause. She hasn't been made President as much as she has been made the poster child of the issue du jour.

[cricket]

May God bless Sandy Roberts in her service for Him; and may He bless those in her conference and all the lives she touches.

[CyberGuy]

This post is to answer those that claim that by their spirit you will know them.

In the past SECC conference presidents have received death threats because of their support of WO.

One SECC president Had bricks thrown throw his car windows with a threatening note attached to the brick because of WO.

SECC president Had his cars paint job scratched with car keys because of WO.

Even today Sandy Roberts secretary takes some very nasty phone calls of which she handles in a very christain manner because her boss is a woman and conference president.

Some phone calls are very disgusting.

So do not tell me that by their spirit of the WO you know they are of the devil. I can say the same thing of some anti WO people. This proves nothing. There are unChristlike people on BOTH sides of this issue. So lets not bring that argument into the discussion.

[CyberGuy]

Originally Posted By: CyberGuy

On a side note. Today on facebook we learned that Sandy Roberts SECC newly elected president received her GC folder with the voting materials. Maybe that is a good sign.

Many of those delegates would have voted for anything in a dress to further the cause. She hasn't been made President as much as she has been made the poster child of the issue du jour.

Olger Sandy Roberts has served for nine years as Conference Secretary. That is second in command at SECC conference. She is very qualified to be conference president. That comment about voting for anyone with a dress is very demeaning to women in general and untrue.

Remember Sandy Roberts got 71 percent of the vote. That in a conference that no race is the majority. Whites are less than 50 percent and Blacks and Hispanics and Asians make up large voting blocks as well. Sandy had wide appeal to all the voting races who voted at the SECC constituency.

Poster Child? Someone had to be the first women conference president. It would have happened someday somewhere. Just happened first in SECC.

[CoAspen]

Originally Posted By: CyberGuy

On a side note. Today on facebook we learned that Sandy Roberts SECC newly elected president received her GC folder with the voting materials. Maybe that is a good sign.

Many of those delegates would have voted for anything in a dress to further the cause. She hasn't been made President as much as she has been made the poster child of the issue du jour.

Grapes are really tasting sour....eh?

[lazarus]

SECC president Had his cars paint job scratched with car keys because of WO.

Even today Sandy Roberts secretary takes some very nasty phone calls of which she handles in a very christain manner because her boss is a woman and conference president.

Some phone calls are very disgusting.

Wow!

Its amazing how often those that claim to have God in their side reveal that they really have the devil in their hearts. It seems as if there is a need on the part of those who are anti-WO to denigrate those who disagree.

[olger]

Originally Posted By: CyberGuy

SECC president Had his cars paint job scratched with car keys because of WO.

Even today Sandy Roberts secretary takes some very nasty phone calls of which she handles in a very christain manner because her boss is a woman and conference president.

Some phone calls are very disgusting.

Wow!

Its amazing how often those that claim to have God in their side reveal that they really have the devil in their hearts. It seems as if there is a need on the part of those who are anti-WO to denigrate those who disagree.

Remember Laz - this could be true, and it could also be exaggeration. Either way, I support treating others with dignity and honor as per Bible instructions. I can disagree with people and still love them.

By the way - did you ever know Major Evans?

g

[ClubV12]

Cyberguy, you keep making statements as if they were facts. Many of your statements are misleading, even outrageous. I suspect your just repeating what you've heard from the W.O. camp without stopping long enough to verify any of it or consider how ridiculous it sounds.

An approach that works well for used car and snake oil salesmem, as well as those who would incite a riot.

Consider your comment about Paul being in rebellion. Of course he was not, yet you suggest he was. What is the TRUTH Cyberguy?

The truth is some of the CHURCHES of his time were in rebellion, NOT Paul! Paul was in perfect harmony with the apostalic GENERAL CONFERENCE. Who met in session and were properly represented by men (MEN) from around the world to set doctrine for the Church of their day. Having determined that circumcision was no longer required under the law, they sent out Paul and Barnabus with letters instructing the Churches on the new doctrine.

The General Conference today is patterned after the apostalic General Conference. BOTH of them were the highest authority on earth.

Some of the CHURCHES were in rebellion, not Paul, not the General Conference.

Conclusion: Cyberguy comments are consistently exaggeration and/or misleading. Credibility of statements is nearing zero.

[olger]

Forsooth!

blessins,

G

[ClubV12]

"The church is God's fortress. His city of refuge, which He holds in a revolted world. Any betrayal of the church is treachery to Him who has bought mankind with the blood of His only-begotten Son."

Acts of the Apostles, chapter one.

Brothers and Sisters, consider carefully your position as it concerns the leadership of Gods chosen people, His Church on earth. Be very careful, lest you find yourself fighting against the very throne of God.

[CoAspen]

On this forum there have been and continue to be questions about the calling and character of women who have become ordained pastors. It is continually said that it is not of God, so what is the alternative? By inference, and no way around it, Satan. Now we are seeing the same rhetoric about being a Conference President. Of course it will be denied or wobbled around their statements, but it still remains, those women and their supporters are going against God.

A whole truckload of assumptions, back biting and just plain nasty words about the spiritual journey and relationship the women and supporters are having with God. It times to say it out loud and call it for what it is!!

[ClubV12]

It's not about women, CoAspen, it's about denying the authority of Gods appointed leadership of His chosen people, His Church on earth. A very serious thing to do.

If your comfortable with this rebellion against the authority of the Church, and see it as a righteous cause for "freedom" and "inclusion", then carry on. If you feel you cannot wait for a decision from the leadership and change must come immediately, no matter what, then pick up your sword and swing away!

As for me, I will exercise caution and stand with those whom God has appointed as the leadership of His people. I believe His is in control and is well able to guide His Church through the appointed agencies. I dare not oppose them without clear and convincing evidence, lest I find myself fighting against the throne of God who appointed them.

I have never bothered myself with the qualifications of the newly elected President, that is not an issue. Church law is the issue.

[Gregory Matthews]

The General Conference has spoken in regard to the election of a female as Conference President. You may read it here:

Quote:

The General Conference headquarters in Silver Spring, Maryland

Seventh-day Adventist world church officials today released a statement regarding a local conference that recently elected as president a person who is not recognized by the world church as an ordained minister. Ordination is one of the criteria for being a conference president. The statement, in its entirety, follows:

The Seventh-day Adventist Church has been called by God as an urgent, end-time voice proclaiming God’s love and last day message to the world. He has commissioned us to proclaim the three angels’ messages of Revelation 14:6-12 to people worldwide desperately looking for hope. The message and mission of the Seventh-day Adventist Church is unique and is heaven-sent. Our top priority as a church is knowing Jesus ourselves and sharing His message of redemption. Nothing is to stand in the way of this proclamation as we unite to reach every “nation, kindred, tongue and people” with the “everlasting gospel.”

The Seventh-day Adventist Church is a fellowship of believers bound together by a common commitment to Christ, the truths of the Bible, a worldwide church organization and a mission to the world. Each of these elements is vitally important in preserving the unity of the church and keeping it from fracturing. The Seventh-day Adventist Church is not organized as a collection of independent units. Although each Conference/Mission, Union and the General Conference (which includes the divisions) have their own constituencies, they are also united by common commitments, mutual trust and agreed upon policies. The Church, the body of Christ, is inter-related. Actions that affect one part of the body affect the whole. The Apostle Paul stated it succinctly in these words, “For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.”(1 Corinthians 12:12)

Working Policy, which is the recording of our agreements as to how we will work together to do the Lord’s work and mission, serves as one of the practical unifying agents that the Holy Spirit uses to bind the church together. Policy is not inflexible. It can be changed but it reflects the understanding of the collective group, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. When personal convictions are placed ahead of the collective policy decisions of the worldwide church, troubling precedents are set. God works in an orderly way and wishes His church to exemplify this sanctified behavior through the power of the Holy Spirit. Humility and submission to God for the good of the church body as outlined in the Word of God and the Spirit of Prophecy are fundamental Biblical principles for the benefit of the church.

At the 2012 Annual Council in a voted action entitled, “Statement on Church Polity, Procedures, and Resolution of Disagreements in the Light of Recent Union Actions on Ministerial Ordination,” the world church strongly indicated that it does not recognize as ordained ministers individuals who do not meet the criteria outlined in policy. It deeply concerns the world leadership of the church that recently a local conference constituency elected as a conference president an individual who is not recognized by the world church as an ordained minister. Ordination to the ministry is one of the criteria set forth for being a conference president. General Conference administration is working with the North American Division administration as they deal with the implications of this local conference action, which is contrary to the 2012 Annual Council action.

The world church is currently working together in a Theology of Ordination Study Committee with participation by all divisions to better understand the functions of ordination as well as the role of women in relation to ordination to the gospel ministry. A careful process is functioning and reports will be given to the 2014 Annual Council with the expectation that this subject will go to the 2015 General Conference Session for a decision under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

We have every confidence in the Lord’s leading of His precious remnant church. By God’s grace and through the Holy Spirit’s guidance, the church will find its way through this challenging time as we move forward with the unique message and mission entrusted to the Seventh-day Adventist movement. It is God’s plan that we proclaim His end-time, prophetic truth to every corner of the globe and especially the enormous metropolitan centers of the world through “Mission to the Cities” utilizing every form of comprehensive urban evangelism including comprehensive health ministry and many other methods. We urge all church members and leaders to pray that the Holy Spirit will unite us to fulfill Christ’s promise that “this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all nations and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14) United in Christ’s love, bound together in a common Biblical message, linked through a common church organization and committed to one another with mutual respect and trust through the power of the Holy Spirit, we are confident this church will triumph at last and proclaim Christ’s eternal message of truth to the ends of the earth in anticipation of Jesus’ soon second coming.

—The General Conference Executive Officers

[CoAspen]

Quote:

A whole truckload of assumptions, back biting and just plain nasty words about the spiritual journey and relationship the women and supporters are having with God.

Carefully read all of the posts condemning WO. It is about women! The statement I made about the atitutude on this forum needs to be addressed. Being for or against the issue is not the issue I am referring to, it is the attitude towards others.

The issue is also about each person journey with God vs what the .org says it should be. There is no way around it some people and some parts of the .org believe the .org supercedes and only they can make those decisions. As it has b een pointed out many, many, many times, ordination has been studied before, so to suggest this is the definitive 'study' is not accurate. The issue has been studied by many scholars over the years and to suggest they were wrong simply means the .org did not accept the results. Yes, this issue is bringing to the head, who is in charge, the .org or the Holy Spirit. It is about authority, mans or Gods.

We each have our own journey and must stop the constant suggesting that others are incorrect or being lead by satan. God looks at the heart and man at the outside. Right now I believe some are looking at the outside.

[LifeHiscost]

After reading this PDF, I'm not at all sure it's as much about WO as it is about putting someone in charge who is motivated by a very dangerous precedence at the top that is possibly going to lead astray many by introducing less than Jesus as the only Way to know our Father in Heaven and therefor the only way of salvation.

http://secretsunsealed.org/Downloads/Spiritual.Formation.paper.pdf

God cares!

[Naomi]

Matthew 24:24 . ... and they will give great signs so as to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

[CyberGuy]

Matthew 24:24 . ... and they will give great signs so as to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Do not take the bible out of context. A famous misquote says

And Judas hanged himself. Another quote. Go and do likewise.

Now of course neither is related to the other. My point is let us not quote the bible to try to demonize the other side. It is not what Christ would want us to do.

[Green Cochoa]

It should be noted that while EG White was raising her kids she did not have a single vision from God. After her kids were raised she started having the visions again and wrote most of her books.

Raising ones kids is a no higher calling from God. BUT after that is done then God has other callings for women.

This is patently false, but I am curious where you got this error.

Mrs. White most certainly did have visions while she had small children.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

My point is let us not quote the bible to try to demonize the other side. It is not what Christ would want us to do.

Point accepted, but is there ever any time, whether in context or not, we are instructed to demonize the other side? As to taking Scripture holding no viable reasoning without reading it in context, I would never have taken my first step towards Jesus as Lord had I not taken John 3:16 out of context.

Every text taken out of context has viable Truth contained in it.

Putting two texts together that leads to something only a blithering idiot would see as advice from God only proves the individuals lack of common sense, not the lack of Truth found in the out of context scripture.

"Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures."Luke 24:27 NASB

All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right.2 Timothy 3:16 NLT

God cares!

[LifeHiscost]

Matthew 24:24 . ... and they will give great signs so as to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

God cares!

[CyberGuy]

Originally Posted By: CyberGuy

It should be noted that while EG White was raising her kids she did not have a single vision from God. After her kids were raised she started having the visions again and wrote most of her books.

Raising ones kids is a no higher calling from God. BUT after that is done then God has other callings for women.

This is patently false, but I am curious where you got this error.

Mrs. White most certainly did have visions while she had small children.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Saw that in a documentary about Ellen White on Hope Channel. Narrated by an Australian. Ellen White did not have visions for many years during the young years of her children. She feared the gift of prophecy was taken from her but as soon as her children were older and did not need he constant care the Visions returned.

That is where I got that info.

[CyberGuy]

Cyberguy, you keep making statements as if they were facts. Many of your statements are misleading, even outrageous. I suspect your just repeating what you've heard from the W.O. camp without stopping long enough to verify any of it or consider how ridiculous it sounds.

An approach that works well for used car and snake oil salesmem, as well as those who would incite a riot.

Consider your comment about Paul being in rebellion. Of course he was not, yet you suggest he was. What is the TRUTH Cyberguy?

The truth is some of the CHURCHES of his time were in rebellion, NOT Paul! Paul was in perfect harmony with the apostalic GENERAL CONFERENCE. Who met in session and were properly represented by men (MEN) from around the world to set doctrine for the Church of their day. Having determined that circumcision was no longer required under the law, they sent out Paul and Barnabus with letters instructing the Churches on the new doctrine.

The General Conference today is patterned after the apostalic General Conference. BOTH of them were the highest authority on earth.

Some of the CHURCHES were in rebellion, not Paul, not the General Conference.

Conclusion: Cyberguy comments are consistently exaggeration and/or misleading. Credibility of statements is nearing zero.

No you misrepresent what I said. Paul was teaching that Greeks did not need to be circumsized BEFORE the church leaders at Jerusalem had made a decision on that point same as many Unions have made a decision to ordain women before the 2015 vote.

Yes Paul did later go to Jerusalem and James the brother of Jesus agreed with Paul after Paul made his argument BUT before that Paul was out of Harmony with the accepted truth in that all must be cicurmsized so was technically in rebellion as the term rebellion seems to be that you are not doing what the church leadership wants at that moment.

That is where I am coming from.

So if you want to follow that argument doing the RIGHT thing before the church votes on it is OK Same as what Paul did. So ordaining women are OK as that is the RIGHT thing to do.

[ClubV12]

At some point the NAD will have to be restructured to come into compliance and under the authority of the General Conference. That time will come. The root of this problem lays at the door of the leadership of NAD.

[CyberGuy]

The General Conference has spoken in regard to the election of a female as Conference President. You may read it here:

Quote:

The General Conference headquarters in Silver Spring, Maryland

Seventh-day Adventist world church officials today released a statement regarding a local conference that recently elected as president a person who is not recognized by the world church as an ordained minister. Ordination is one of the criteria for being a conference president. The statement, in its entirety, follows:

The Seventh-day Adventist Church has been called by God as an urgent, end-time voice proclaiming God’s love and last day message to the world. He has commissioned us to proclaim the three angels’ messages of Revelation 14:6-12 to people worldwide desperately looking for hope. The message and mission of the Seventh-day Adventist Church is unique and is heaven-sent. Our top priority as a church is knowing Jesus ourselves and sharing His message of redemption. Nothing is to stand in the way of this proclamation as we unite to reach every “nation, kindred, tongue and people” with the “everlasting gospel.”

The Seventh-day Adventist Church is a fellowship of believers bound together by a common commitment to Christ, the truths of the Bible, a worldwide church organization and a mission to the world. Each of these elements is vitally important in preserving the unity of the church and keeping it from fracturing. The Seventh-day Adventist Church is not organized as a collection of independent units. Although each Conference/Mission, Union and the General Conference (which includes the divisions) have their own constituencies, they are also united by common commitments, mutual trust and agreed upon policies. The Church, the body of Christ, is inter-related. Actions that affect one part of the body affect the whole. The Apostle Paul stated it succinctly in these words, “For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.”(1 Corinthians 12:12)

Working Policy, which is the recording of our agreements as to how we will work together to do the Lord’s work and mission, serves as one of the practical unifying agents that the Holy Spirit uses to bind the church together. Policy is not inflexible. It can be changed but it reflects the understanding of the collective group, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. When personal convictions are placed ahead of the collective policy decisions of the worldwide church, troubling precedents are set. God works in an orderly way and wishes His church to exemplify this sanctified behavior through the power of the Holy Spirit. Humility and submission to God for the good of the church body as outlined in the Word of God and the Spirit of Prophecy are fundamental Biblical principles for the benefit of the church.

At the 2012 Annual Council in a voted action entitled, “Statement on Church Polity, Procedures, and Resolution of Disagreements in the Light of Recent Union Actions on Ministerial Ordination,” the world church strongly indicated that it does not recognize as ordained ministers individuals who do not meet the criteria outlined in policy. It deeply concerns the world leadership of the church that recently a local conference constituency elected as a conference president an individual who is not recognized by the world church as an ordained minister. Ordination to the ministry is one of the criteria set forth for being a conference president. General Conference administration is working with the North American Division administration as they deal with the implications of this local conference action, which is contrary to the 2012 Annual Council action.

The world church is currently working together in a Theology of Ordination Study Committee with participation by all divisions to better understand the functions of ordination as well as the role of women in relation to ordination to the gospel ministry. A careful process is functioning and reports will be given to the 2014 Annual Council with the expectation that this subject will go to the 2015 General Conference Session for a decision under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

We have every confidence in the Lord’s leading of His precious remnant church. By God’s grace and through the Holy Spirit’s guidance, the church will find its way through this challenging time as we move forward with the unique message and mission entrusted to the Seventh-day Adventist movement. It is God’s plan that we proclaim His end-time, prophetic truth to every corner of the globe and especially the enormous metropolitan centers of the world through “Mission to the Cities” utilizing every form of comprehensive urban evangelism including comprehensive health ministry and many other methods. We urge all church members and leaders to pray that the Holy Spirit will unite us to fulfill Christ’s promise that “this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all nations and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14) United in Christ’s love, bound together in a common Biblical message, linked through a common church organization and committed to one another with mutual respect and trust through the power of the Holy Spirit, we are confident this church will triumph at last and proclaim Christ’s eternal message of truth to the ends of the earth in anticipation of Jesus’ soon second coming.

—The General Conference Executive Officers

Yes I read this today. Does not really say much. They cannot overturn the will of the SECC constituency. They do not have that power to do so. According to the GC own bylaws the Union can choose its own delegates made of of conference presidents and other high officials of the conferences and pastors of those conferences. Problem is nothing is said if a president is a women then what happens then. I do not think they ever thought that could happen so no remedy was made for that possibility.

To go back and take away the vote will seem vindictive. The GC is caught between a rock and a hard place. Best to just leave that hot potato alone which is what they are doing.