Raphael Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 The crisis of sin describe in the bible was & is so grave that its toll were innumerable lives (not mentioning the undescribable sufferrings), not only human but of angels and even God himself in the form of the Son of Man. The question is "Was God really ever endangered or was ever in a position where He was in real danger caused by Satans rebellion?" Love & forgiveness, Raphael Quote Test me with thy might but grant me safe passage. Now, who said that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Byers, N.D. Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Hi Raphael, Just out of curiousity, why do you want to know this? God knew this was going to happen ever since ever was. There was no threat to God. Jesus could have decided not to go through with the cross. The threat was and is to us. There was a chance that Jesus the man could have sinned but God is perfect and this has been taken care of a long time ago. God bless, Norman Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yong T Tay Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Question: "Was God really ever endangered or was ever in a position where He was in real danger caused by Satans rebellion?" The answer would be NO. Had Jesus committed a single sin, the whole human race including Jesus would be lost forever. God Himself would not be in danger because of His self-existence and cannot die. However, satan's accusations against God would be justified. The whole universe would be in total chaos. God would have to rule with the chaos or would have to wipe out all His creations(good and bad) and start allover again. This time without the freedom of choice given to His new creatures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lambert Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 The greatest danger to God and the universe, was that in the process of having a knowledge of evil, God might choose to embrace it. He who created freedom of choice surely had freedom of choice Himself. What we see on Calvary is God refusing to embrace evil, decisively putting it away from Himself, separating Himself from that part of Himself to which He imputed responsibility for the sin of Adam's race. God's nature has always been and remains perfectly pure and holy, without any stain of sin or tendency to evil. For Him to be intimately acquainted with our sins "from the inside out," as He must since He sustains our every breath ("in Him we live and move and have our being"--Acts 17:28), must cause Him the most acute agony. Call it divine angst on the cosmic level. God has always been faced with a choice between three alternatives for dealing with the pain sin causes Him. Either (1) give up the perfect purity and holiness of His nature which causes Him such a painful reaction to the knowledge of our sin; or (2) obliterate all those who are sinful so He no longer has to put up with it; or (3) endure the fullness of the pain, while He provisionally takes responsibility for our sin on Himself and executes justice against this sin by enduring separation within Himself, putting up with the pain as long as it takes for as many who will to repent. God chose the third alternative, which was always for Him the most dangerous. For at any point His resolve could waver, and He might choose self-love over self-denying love for His sinful creatures. God even consented to subjecting Himself in Christ to the temptations of degenerate human flesh lived in this damaged world, a world in which there was a powerful and skilled tempter desperate to lead Him into sin. Had Christ given in to sin, it would have been the end of the righteousness of God, and even the physical laws on which the universe depends would have come unraveled. The ultimate end of a universe inwhich evil prevails can only be complete destruction. Contrary to the theories of Yin-Yang common in Eastern religions, there can be no balance between good and evil. One or the other must ultimately prevail. Life can exist for awhile in a universe where both good and evil exist. But life cannot exist forever--without death--unless good prevails, and evil comes to a complete end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 Your question really perked my attention. YOu have really asked a good one here. I believe the answers given above are correct, the threat was to us and all creation. But when you hear of mothers throwing their babies into the river and hurricaines like Wilma, earthquakes like Pakistan, immorality etc. you wonder when God has had enough. How much it must hurt our sensitive Brother to feel and see what He sees. It hurts us to see it. Come soon Lord Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 Quote: Norman said: Hi Raphael, Just out of curiousity, why do you want to know this? Not sure why Raphael might ask the question. However there seems to me to be an easy explanation why many people might ask the question, other than just curiosity. Many already motivated to find the Way to eternal bliss in living, having been convinced our Father is the closest to the unexplaninable they have been able to find, would then wish to move to a position of security that preempts every possibility that, once achieving the kingdom, they can be sure beyond doubt there will never be possibility of another fall such as is witnessed on this earth. [:"red"] ""For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." [/] John 3:16 NASB [:"red"] "Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices shouting in heaven: "The whole world has now become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign forever and ever." [/] Rev 11:15 NLT [:"red"] " He will make an utter end of it.Affliction will not rise up a second time. " [/] Nahum 1:9 NKJV [:"red"] "He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus." [/] Revelation 22:20 KJV And all the who see their need, said, 'Amen!!' Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael Posted October 23, 2005 Author Share Posted October 23, 2005 The description of the battle between right and good as a crisis of universal dimensions in time and matter through out all realms of creation; Almost always portrayed with expressions of extremities as eternal death, catastrophies, eternal consequences etc. May we declare this mentioned great controversy to be an incidence of absolutely no threat to God our Creator. Stating this occurance to be just another unthreatening, unendangering, regular, routine, even mundane happening in the absence of real threat or real danger; therefore disapproving the word usage of crisis or other words of similar definitions. Because a crisis or like words must have the elements of real danger, otherwise it is not as said. In other words this great controversy of cosmic proportion should not be described as something alarming or heart wrreaking in any way and should be simply described as something alike to any regular or routine happening in Gods handiworks. What do you think, my brethren? May peace always abide, Raphael Quote Test me with thy might but grant me safe passage. Now, who said that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 This is a very interesting question... Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Sin was/is a real threat to God. He loves His children (us) very much. It pains Him to no end to see us hurting. Just as holding a gun to the head of a son or daughter would hurt a parent and pose a real threat, so does sin hurt God and pose a real threat. To say that this threat is not real, and that it wouldn't hurt God but only us, is a great underestimate of the love God has for us. Hurting us is hurting Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
there buster Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 It seems to me this whole question turns on your definition of "danger." Does danger mean there was some threat to God's existence? If so, the answer has to be no. But there can be real danger without that threat. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Quote: raphael said: What do you think, my brethren? May peace always abide, Raphael I would say definitely so. However it is not so among those who disbelieve, for when one does not have the Spirit of God there remains only a spirit of fear. [:"red"] "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love." [/] 1 John 4:18 NASB Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Quote: Christine Wall said: Sin was/is a real threat to God. He loves His children (us) very much. It pains Him to no end to see us hurting. Just as holding a gun to the head of a son or daughter would hurt a parent and pose a real threat, so does sin hurt God and pose a real threat. To say that this threat is not real, and that it wouldn't hurt God but only us, is a great underestimate of the love God has for us. Hurting us is hurting Him. I defer to your reasoning, Christine. I suppose that, at least for my own understanding, it is good for me to have "threat" defined. Certainly even Christ was threatened with loss to Himself while walking in this sewer down here. OTOH He still suffers loss when one of His creation is lost forever. Perhaps it could be somewhat explained by Job's losses, in which the Bible points out he was restored (fourfold?) all he had lost. No mention is made about the loss of his children. Although he had many more sons and daughters, as I recall, can the ones lost ever be replaced, although it does not say his first sons and daughters were lost eternally. Keep the faith! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael Posted October 27, 2005 Author Share Posted October 27, 2005 I do have answers to my own question. But that doesn't mean that that's the best & and only answer. If you compile the list of Gods biblical names and titles (pls help ministers, with that), you'll find definitions rendering God to be unendangerable or unthreatable. Simple as that. So, what is this all about? Well, in a way, one could say that it is an endless experience of growth and discovery in God on all matters. The story of God offerring to Moses to obliterate the Israelites and replace him in their place shows God could easily do the same thing with the whole universe and just as easily create another. But it didn't happen or He didn't do it which could be logically explained away ... His character of long sufferingness, etc. There may be many things unknown about God but wisdom advices one to look up to Him, because actually you've got no choice on where to go because there is no existance of any form without God, except you believe on a contrary. Love & forgiveness, Raphael Quote Test me with thy might but grant me safe passage. Now, who said that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Quote: raphael said: If you compile the list of Gods biblical names and titles (pls help ministers, with that), you'll find definitions rendering God to be unendangerable or unthreatable. threat: an expression of intention to inflict evil, injury, or damage. Not knowing all of the meanings ascribed through the name of the Lord of the universe, I could not reject any of the attributes He has that might be plausible. But seeing His story play out in the Scriptures I also can not dismiss the real threat that has been and is continuing to be perpetrated upon the Father, in the form of His creation, the children of men, as well as in the Person of His Son. [:"red"] "..it is impossible to restore to repentance those who were once enlightened--those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come-- and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people to repentance again because they are nailing the Son of God to the cross again by rejecting him, holding him up to public shame ." [/] Heb 6:4-6 NLT (Bold mine LHC) [:"red"] "And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends." [/] Zechariah 13:6 KJV Keep the faith! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
there buster Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 My daughter's fiance just returned from a second tour of duty in Iraq. His presence there was no threat to me personally. Nothing that happened there would endanger me personally. But if sometthing happened to him, it would in fact cause me distress. So there was a danger, not to my existence personally, but that someone I cared for would suffer loss. In that sense, sin was not only a real danger to God, it did in fact inflict harm. First, in that some of God's beloved Creation will be lost forever. Second, in that Christ became a human forever. Third, Christ's wounds will be visible forever. So it all depends upon what you mean by danger. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.