Beware of wolves in Sheep's clothing that come here.

[Gregory Matthews]

I feel that we should allow considerable freedom in the direction that posts go.

I listed my post as off topic as I felt that some would so consider it.  I commented because I waned to do so.  

 

[stinsonmarri]

15 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Why should their skin color matter? Since we are being so honest here about skin color, mine is white. And guess what? White is a color too.  The Bible has never made the point of skin color for any reasonable understanding of any text.

If that is true, then why did the Bible explain in detail the three sons of Noah and their children? Remember names have meaning as well. Why is it that the Europeans claim Egypt under their nation, including all the great Empires. Why do you see THE SAVIOUR and THE MOST HIGH depicted as White? Why do we today make all to believe that the Gentiles include Afrikan Americans and other color nations? The Bible in Genesis Chapter 10 states clearly who the Gentiles are:

And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. Gen 10:4, 5 

But here is something important you MUST know, if you are to understand the Bible. The word GENTILE is not used in any of the ancient manuscripts, simply because there was no such word in the Hebrew or Greek languages. Who Are The Gentiles?by Lt. Col. Gordon "Jack" Mohr AUS Ret.

Wanderer you said: "The Bible has never made the point of skin color for any reasonable understanding of any text."

I humbly disagree with you! Here are two texts that states it:

And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman. Num 12:1 

Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. Jer 13:23 

The Bible states that Abraham married Keturah after Sarah died. She was a Canaanite and through this marriage he had six sons. One of them was named Median and he moved between Sudan and Egypt. I feel that his wife was a Cushite since the Scriptures actually stated a Kushite. The Egyptians color were lighter even though they mixed with their Kushite cousins a lot! My point is Ham's children are not White! 

From the shades of the sky, trees, birds, plants etc. we see a spectrum of color! We are the ones who were gifted to be made in the RESEMBLANCE of ELOHIYM, why do we have a problem discussing this! Wanderer what if I told you that YAHSHUA was mixed with Ham and Shem and that HE escape to Egypt for a reason? The Egyptian were not White, the were light brown to dark ebony! So, HE fitted well in this country! Would that make a difference to you? How about Rahab, she was a Canaanite, and Ruth who was mixed with Canaanite and Semitic. Bathsheba was a Canaanite! I would like to provide what the SDA Commentary stated:

The Hebrew people were more intimately associated with the Hamitic races than with the descendants of Japheth. Cush, or Kush, is ancient Ethiopia, which was in classical times called Nubia. It was not Abyssinia, but included a part of Egypt and a part of the Sudan, extending from the first cataract of the Nile, at Aswan, as far south as Khartoum. In Egyptian inscriptions this land is called Kash, in Assyrian cuneiform texts, Kusu. Cush, however, included not only African Nubia but also the western part of Arabia bordering on the Red Sea. Some of the sons of Cush are known to have settled there.The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary Vol. 1, p. 273

To me I think it is very important for us to discuss this! I feel it is important to our soul salvation. It was put in the Bible for a reason and that sinful reason is racism and bigotry. We cannot expect to love HIM when we hate each other. Sure you may have friends from different nationalities but that's not it! Why was their slavery, why did a person made the remark here about me, why? It is not just ignorance, it is sin too! It was place there for us not to avoid it but to make changes in our lives. Racism is not just a White problem, it a Black problem. Its a problem with realizing that the Ashkenazi's themselves declared they were not Hebrews, or Khazars! Why? We truly need to understand about the mismisuse word gentile. Paul did not write a letter to Afrikan people! He actually wrote letter to the Greeks and Europeans who are Japheth children. The Bible does give a reason why? Can I ask humbly does anyone else know why?

Finally, when we give respect to all of the people in the Bible and yes based on their nationality that does have to do with the color of their skin. None of us can change our skin color and that's a good start in appreciating who made us! When our change comes can see each other's color as we can see that ELOHIYM is LOVE!

Be bless everyone!

[JoeMo]

19 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Since we are being so honest here about skin color, mine is white.

I'm kind of a pinkish light brown myself.  In the summer I will be browner.

[B/W Photodude]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

I appreciate all of your scripture knowledge, but when I look at these texts, I do not see anything about skin color.

One of the things I have noticed that when a disagreement comes up between people of different colors, usually in America it is black, the assumption is made that the problem is racism. Then the other person, often white, is stuck trying to prove he likes black people and/or is not racist! Some people seem to be unable to grasp the idea that the person may just not like the other person! But guess what? A lot of white people don't like other white people. Now what are you going to blame it on? And apparently, it you look at the gang shootings in Chicago, a lot of black people don't like other black people! 

When we consider Miriam, we have no idea what inspired Miriam to dislike the wife of Moses. It is too easy to blame it on skin color. It could have been cultural differences, style of dress, or maybe Miriam just didn't like the way Moses's wife cooked her manna! But I do think it is time to stop injecting current American  culture and race relations into a situation that happened 3600 years ago approximately.

[B/W Photodude]

3 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

I listed my post as off topic as I felt that some would so consider it. 

I thought at first you had clicked wrong and wanted this in the "#metoo" thread!

[stinsonmarri]

20 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I appreciate all of your scripture knowledge, but when I look at these texts, I do not see anything about skin color. That is not the context, nor the intent of the authors. I agree, important lessons can be gleaned from these.

Aggressive debating of the  potential fact that some Bible characters may or may not have been "white" can be considered as racist itself, if one tries to subvert the scriptures to the racist card in their exegesis thereof.  The Bible nowhere makes skin color the drawing card. Mentions about race, nation, or tongue in scripture is always centered around the fact that Jesus loves and accepts all kinds, and works with them at the point of their felt need. (see John 6:37)  You may continue scolding me if you wish.

Wanderer: I was not scolding you at all! What I was hoping was for you to understand that ELOHIYM did made people of different skin colors. By denying this fact, I am sad to say to you you have deny creation. Hatred of skin color is not a mirage, it is real! I do not feel that a discussion of truth should be aggressive. What is racism my friend is when one cannot realize that their is a problem.

Let's talk about slavery, and the definition if I may:

The English word slave comes from Old French sclave, from the Medieval Latin sclavus, from the Byzantine Greek σκλάβος, which, in turn, comes from the ethnonym Slav, because in some early Medieval wars many Slavs were captured and enslaved. Encyclopædia Britannica, History of Europe – Middle Ages

Racism is not only the color of a person skin but a person nationality or religion. This word should not be found in the Bible. Yet, the modern translators use it even more! The original Bible languages used the word servant and their is a reason.

Servant: One that serves others; one that performs duties about the person or home of a master or personal employer. Merriam-Webster Dictionary

I would ask you to read Ex 21:1-10 how a Hebrew should treat a Hebrew servant or any servant. I want you to understand that the same requirements is what we owe to THE MOST HIGH. It is exactly how we  should treat each when it comes to debt. YAHSHUA had to redeem or to buy us back and if Israel had truly understood this requirement their lives would have been so much different. They would have known how to treat the poor, the widow and children and then those not of the true faith.

YAHWEH Spoke to Abram:

And HE said unto Abram, Know of a surety In knowing, know that thy seed shall be a stranger sojourner in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall humble them four hundred years; Gen 15:13  exeGeses ready research Bible

Why was the word afflict used? In the Strong Dictionary "‛ânâh," it states; A primitive root (possibly rather identical with H6030 through the idea of looking down. That's why I used exeGeses ready research Bible because it use the correct wording or understanding which is the word humble. YAHSHUA gives the example to Peter as HE, THE MASTER can also be THE SERVANT and wash Peter's feet.

Now I would like you to view the other Scriptures and how it should have stated:

Therefore they did set over them vassal governors to humble them with (porterage) labor. And they built for Pharaoh Storehouse cities, Pithom and Raamses Rameses. Ex 1:11 exeGeses ready research Bible

When I saw this word in Strong Dictionary, I too wonder what it meant and was truly schock!

Porterage: a porter's work; also the charge for it.

And the sons of Israel did according to the word of Moses. And they asked from the Egyptians articles of silver and articles of gold, and clothing. And YAHWEH gave favor to the people in the eyes of the Egyptians. And they granted their requests. And they plundered Egypt. Ex 12:35, 36   Hebraic Roots Bible

The Israelites were not slaves but because of the war with the Hykos; the Egyptians realize the nationality of  Israel were related based on the land. The Hykos were  Asians and related to the Canaanites. Israel also came from Canaan and they thought they might join up with the Hykos, their enemy. They didn't and Israel were a humble people and the Egyptians did not have taskmaster but governors over them. These governors gave Israel the straw to make the bricks but when Aaron and Moses requested that they be allowed to celebrate YAHWEH, Pharoah change the order. Their Hebrew supervisors talked and complained about the extra labour. To make it short a lot of wrong English words were used to make it appear that the Egyptians were extremely cruel to Israel. It does not make sense if a princess found Moses and had his mother to raise him for twelve years. They came out of Egypt with payment they asked for their servitude and they receive even more.

It was YAHWEH who told Abram that this was going to happen for a reason; which I provided above. But instead we have turned this into racism and it was not! Their are so many things that have been taught to teach hatred of each other in so many ways. Miriam was struck immediately with leprosy of her action with Moses Cushite wife. You may not believe it but it was put there for us to know that YAHWEH is no respect of person, nationality, or skin color! It is us that have used Scriptures in the Bible to put the nations of Afrika down. You say is not skin color then why would another man take and debase another man to the point of making him to become a cattle, not even a so call  slave? I say it is sin and it is all because of what was wrongly taught from the Bible.

Blessings to everyone!

[stinsonmarri]

19 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I think its important for you to recognize that I did not deny this. What I denied, and still deny is that we need to depend upon knowing the persons skin color in order to understand scripture. But, I will say, you did provide some interesting info in your post, so thank you And thank you for the flower.

Wanderer: Then please explain to me why have the people in the Bible being presented as one skin color White? Why was it told to me growing up that because of the curse supposedly be on Cain and Ham had to do with Black skin:

The Southern Baptist group used the curse of Cain as a justification for slavery. Some 19th- and 20th-century Baptist ministers in the Southern United States taught the belief that there were two separate heavens; one for blacks, and one for whites. "Land of the Till Murder." Ebony. April 1956

My Parents and I moved in the 90's to the country 47 miles south of Atlanta. Both my aunt and mother became friend with their neighbor who's had a large amount of acreage (100+) to my mother's 56+ acreage. She was nice in her own way but, she told my mother and my aunt that she would visit them on the Black Heaven side. This was in the 90's!

The Curse of Cain was often conflated with the Curse of Ham. According to the Bible, Ham discovered his father Noah drunk and naked in his tent, but instead of honoring his father by covering his nakedness, he ran and told his brothers about it. Because of this, Noah cursed Ham's son, Canaan by saying that he was to be "a servant of servants". (Genesis 9:20-27) One interpretation of this passage states that Ham married a descendant of Cain, who was black, so that the descendants of Canaan were both marked with black skin and cursed to be servants of servants. While there is no indication in the Bible of Ham's wife descending from Cain, this interpretation was used to justify slavery and it was particularly popular in America during the Atlantic slave trade. John N. Swift and Gigen Mammoser, 'Out of the Realm of Superstition: Chesnutt's 'Dave's Neckliss' and the Curse of Ham, American Literary Realism, vol. 42 no. 1, Fall 2009, 3

Perhaps the worst form of mental slavery Blacks were subjected to was the pseudo-theological kind. That is the kind that was supposedly based on the Bible, the kind that said God had cursed Blacks and ordained them to forever be on the bottom of mankind’s ladder of progress and productivity. There were two major lies told to Blacks to promote this idea: the so-called “Hamitic Theory’’ or “Curse of Ham’’ and the “Mark of Cain.’’ Neither of them was ever in the Bible, but the slave masters told Blacks they were.

Thankfully, these lies are no longer as prominent as they once were, but they still influence the way some people - both Black and White - view the Black race. Also, on college campuses and in prisons, Blacks who are opposed to Christianity and the Bible use those false theories to say the God of the Bible, and the Bible itself, are against Blacks. These lies are major reasons many have been fooled into believing Christianity is “the White man’s religion’’ and why many have rejected the gospel. Debunking the Myth That Christianity Is The White Man’s Religion: Part III- August 26, 2016; by Chris Broussard

Wanderer it is still here and it cannot be deny. Even the above writing the person said Black race. Race is not in the Bible either, it is mankind. Let show you how far prejudice goes even with men not respecting women. I was taught that Eve wander away from husband, but that is not true. He was standing right next to her. Gen 3:6 You see the word racism is deceptive, really is should be prejudice and biasness. The reason "Me Too," Movement has taken place to women of all nationalities; because of the lies that told against the Bible. It was YAHSHUA that created the Adams, both male and female. Gen 1:27; 5:2 Yes, the woman was made from the man's rib, so what they both came from dirt! Then Adam name the woman Eve after sin and not before. Gen 3:20 Yes she was cursed in childbearing; but she was his wife! But again beware of the English language and the changes it covers up. The woman was told that her husband was actually "to direct, keep straight, guide," her as his wife. Make sense to me, since she took it upon herself to guide him into sin!

This does not mean that men were to dominate over woman and to treat women in such prejudice manner. YAHWEH is no respect of person, that also accounts for women. We need to realize what prejudice and bigotry is and how wide of a spectrum it covers. When this sin can be discuss clearly then we can pray to remove it out of our lives, then a change will come between all of us. The problem we must face it started through religion and teaching false things that the Bible never said at all. I tell you just because you translate from one language to another is not the problem. I will supplement with EGW that she saw that words were changed in the Bible. Early Writings p. 220, 221 If the context or the sentence do not provide the correct understanding and leads to misconceived ideas; then we have been deceived. Individually we must discuss and make these changes. You know I was upset about what was said about my skin color. But no more! The reason is THE HOLY SPIRIT is our LEADER into all truth. I thank those who stood up for me because of their sincerity! But to me wolves in sheep clothings provide the way to uncover lies and sin. I feel this sinful thing has gone on much too long. It is time to discuss it and realize that it is a mountain that need to be removed out of all of our lives.

Blessings to everyone!

PS:  Ham's brothers were standing outside of the tent. The Hebrew word: "chûts," means: properly separate by a wall, that is, outside, outdoors.

[stinsonmarri]

3 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

People are not presented in this kind of way in the Bible. Neither is skin color, in the Bible, ever made out to be something we need to know to understand any given text.

What you seem to be talking about in your posting are personal experience you have had with people who did not know what they were talking about, and I am sorry you had to endure that.

Wanderer have you ever heard walk a mile in my shoe. You haven't so you don't know what it is like but can try to learn and understand. Skin color is in the Bible and I gave you the two Text but it is you who choose not to accept it. You never answer the questions I asked you and I wonder why? The Commandment said to love our neighbor, but how can you when can't understand that their is skin color. It is skin color that has made the difference in our society. It is skin color that makes one skin color person feel that his/her is superior over others. It even goes further with the skin color brain and other features as well. Yes you are right; Black experience things that your skin color have never experience. But it is not personal, it scream out when those who don't have my skin color feels my pain. The young lady in Charlottesville felt the pain of Black people and lost her life. I truly do not understand why is it so hard for people who claim to YAHSHUA, have a problem dealing with this awful sin. This sin covers a multitude of other sins, that is why I stated a spectrum! The Bible said if you have fault with one another we are suppose to go to each other and work it out. Here it is and it is not personal, it is universal. It ties up nationalities, religions, people tongues because we try to escape from facing it!

If color was not important to all of us we would truly be lifeless! THE ALMIGHTY ONES enjoy color, it put in the sky as a promise that the world would never be destroyed by a flood. It is in Heaven and description of color is all throughout the Bible!

Finally, it appears that everyone else understood it had to do with the Afrikan people skin color but you!

A black man cannot change the color of his skin, and a leopard cannot change its spots. In the same way, Jerusalem, you cannot change and do good. You always do bad things. Jer 13:23 World Bible Easy-to-Read Version

Can Ethiopians change the color of their skin or leopards change their spots? Can you do good when you're taught to do wrong? Jer 13:23  God’s Word

Can the Ethiopian change the color of his skin? or a leopard take away his spots? Nor can you who are so used to doing evil now start being good. Jer 13:23 Living Bible

Can a person from Cush change the color of his skin?  Can a leopard change his spots? In the same way, Jerusalem, you cannot change and do good, because you are accustomed to doing evil. Jer 13:23 New Century Version

I understood it when the KJV just said skin.

Happy Sabbath and be bless everyone!

[stinsonmarri]

18 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Of course no one can walk in your shoes. Only you can. And I have said that I am sorry you have had to experience racial prejudice problems in your life.

I also explained that those two texts you keep quoting do not really make the point that knowing a persons skin color is essential to understanding even one text in the Bible. Jer 13:23 is not a text about skin color, it is part of that surrounding verses dealing with how it is impossible for us to change our prideful heart on our own power. It is not making the point of any skin color, except in the metaphorical sense to show how useless our own efforts are in changing our prideful heart and sinful ways on our own, without God's help. For eg, just as you cannot change the color of your skin, in the same way, you cannot change your own heart, by yourself. It is easy to see here that Jer 13:23 is not telling us that we must know a persons skin color in order to understand any text in the Bible. 

This passage in Jeremiah is telling us that not even the threat of captivity could move the people to repent. The people had become so accustomed to doing evil that they had lost their ability to change. God never rejects those who sincerely turn to him. God was warning them to repent before it became impossible to change.

The lesson to be learned here has nothing to do with race, skin color or creedal intersections of any culture or religion. God is simply telling us here we must never put off until tomorrow those changes God wants us to make. Our attitudes and patterns for living can become so set that we will lose all desire to change and will no longer fear the consequences.

I am sorry I did not make myself clearer before.

Wanderer: You see, you still see it as me personally. Walk a mile in any Black, Indian, Chinese person shoes! I also know that YAHWEH was dealing with Jerusalem and her sinful ways. Yet, HE choose to also make an important point that you really do not see. The point was Kush skin color and the leopard spots could not be changed because THE CREATOR created them both that way! Also, Jeremiah knew what Miriam had done and there was no excuse for her action of prejudice then Jerusalem sinning now. YAHWEH did not tolerate her actions of bigotry which was sinful then HE would change the color of the Kushite people or removing a leopard's spot. YAHWEH wanted all to know that HE would not tolerate sin. HE demanded obedience and respect on what HE says and how HE creates. When YAHWEH speaks about anything it is to bring attention to all of what HE is presenting. Whether it is a metaphor or not, the Kushite skin color demands respect because HE created Kush that color. Yes, you cannot attempt to change the spot of a leopard as well! 

So many people will be lost because they refuse to see through the metaphor the full picture. Sin is the problem and refusing to debase any nationality was given with the lesson to Jerusalem. We even do the same thing ourselves teaching our children lessons of the hear and now with a problem (that was corrected), in the past. Classrooms, sermons, counseling all work in the same order using pass corrected examples to help correct future mistakes.

Happy Sabbath everyone!

[JoeMo]

If this is gonna turn into a discussion on racism, let's try to keep it on the subject and not make it personal.  I enjoy discussions about culture and ethnicity.  In this case, I find stins' stories educational.  I've never been black; so I would not know how constant racial discrimination impacts people.  I do know (from discussions with friends of color) that African Americans are much better versed on racism and ethnic sensitivity than us white folks.

While discrimination according to skin color may not explicitly be addressed in scripture, racism according to ethnicity is rampant in the Old Testament.  Skin color is directly correlated with ethnicity.  Skin color is only skin deep. we all look the same under our skins.  We all bleed the same when someone (black, yellow, red, brown, or white) wounds us.  Let's put our efforts towards learning about one another's cultures and appreciating our diversity rather than allowing it to divide us.

[stinsonmarri]

On 1/6/2018 at 3:02 PM, The Wanderer said:

Perhaps you need to walk a few miles in a white person's shoes. That seems to be the color you are making racist comments about.

Now that's very interesting! How quickly the table is turned. Now I am making racist comment about White's? Really, because I ask questions and stated we who profess to follow THE MOST HIGH can not discuss the problems that have negatively taught! I also stated that both Blacks and White have a problem and unless we openly discuss it with THE POWER of THE HOLY SPIRIT it remains. It appears when questions cannot be answered then we come to this. Wouldn't be better to say, you didn't know or I thought it that way, but maybe we should pray and discuss it. Not doing this! I truly would loved to walk in a White person's shoe if all possible! There are a lot of things would be granted to me so much easier! I not poor, or uneducated and I was raised by good parents. My father died early, and my mother gave her five children a good SDA education as children. But, there were things held back, yes do to the color of my skin. Not me only, but the American Indians, the Japanese, Chinese, Italians living in this country! Truth were not told correctly in the Bible and that needs to be change! Sin is sin a lie is a lie and we need to make it right. If we are preparing to see YAHSHUA coming in the clouds we must remove all sin out of our lives. I also told you that the word racism in incorrect, it should be prejudice and bigotry.

You be bless and everyone also!

On 1/6/2018 at 3:07 PM, The Wanderer said:

Your comments to me are racist and unreasonable and I find them very offensive to be treated as though just because of my skin color I dont know what I am talking about. Your racist, ant-white skin stance should be against forum rules. I would hope it is

 

On 1/6/2018 at 3:07 PM, The Wanderer said:

Your comments to me are racist and unreasonable and I find them very offensive to be treated as though just because of my skin color I dont know what I am talking about. Your racist, ant-white skin stance should be against forum rules. I would hope it is

I guess, I see that it is to you. My mother always told me when a person becomes angry, there is a problem. I call myself reaching out to you and appears you see what you want to see. I did try but I will not be a shame for hoping we could make a difference through THE HOLY SPIRIT! No on said you do not know what you are talking about! What I provided to you, including what you stated, what actually was actually meant by YAHWEH about the skin! OK, apparently you did not like it. I was not expressing that you personally was racist at all. If you go back and read what I wrote was that the problem is sin. I provided Miriam as an example, that YAHWEH do not tolerate us hating each other over the color of our skin!

There's a song that is call "Each one reach one," that I was praying could start with me and you. I am sorry to waste your time. But, I am not sorry for trying to get those who want to be save to discuss this sinful problem. It's about healing and I believe that their are those who will read this one day and deal with this most difficult sin! I will move on and will not trouble you any longer!

Be bless Wanderer and everyone!

[stinsonmarri]

53 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

If this is gonna turn into a discussion on racism, let's try to keep it on the subject and not make it personal.  I enjoy discussions about culture and ethnicity.  In this case, I find stins' stories educational.  I've never been black; so I would not know how constant racial discrimination impacts people.  I do know (from discussions with friends of color) that African Americans are much better versed on racism and ethnic sensitivity than us white folks.

While discrimination according to skin color may not explicitly be addressed in scripture, racism according to ethnicity is rampant in the Old Testament.  Skin color is directly correlated with ethnicity.  Skin color is only skin deep. we all look the same under our skins.  We all bleed the same when someone (black, yellow, red, brown, or white) wounds us.  Let's put our efforts towards learning about one another's cultures and appreciating our diversity rather than allowing it to divide us.

Thank you so much brother Joe Joe. But I want us to know that they did not have this problem back then. It is a Johnny come lately sin! The Bible shows clearly that YAHWEH use people of all nationalities and HE love color. THEY created it in everything! You see we are all actually cousins! 

My point is that YAHSHUA came through both Shem and Ham and we need to recognize the truth! Is that so bad? Who do have wooly hair? If Afrikans have that type of hair does that make me superior over others? Should we portray YAHWEH, THE FATHER? Now I think it causes problems! If only we could just discuss it without becoming angry and truly pray. Then we could actually hear one another! Anyway thanks a lot for your comment!

Blessings everyone!

[Gregory Matthews]

Moderator Comments:

*  As Jo Mo said, let all of us attempt to participate in this conversation without being personal.

*  I consider the subject to be of importance.   In addition,  I want for the discussion to involve people who see it differently.  This includes having people articulate enough to be able to speak their minds.

*  I understand the comments of those who have implied that I, or another Moderator, should step in and act on specific comments that have been made.  My position, as I read the posts, is that if I were to do so, in order to be  fair,  I would have to act on more than one post, and on more than one poster.

*  So, I am still letting the conversation  unfold as it goes.  I simply ask for all who post to carefully consider both what they post and who others will understand (react) their post.

 

[stinsonmarri]

On 1/3/2018 at 3:54 PM, JoeMo said:

I'm kind of a pinkish light brown myself.  In the summer I will be browner.

Hey, Joe Joe I overlook this! I am reddish brown, I use to be reddish yellow but after I moved to Georgia I got a little tan we call it getting darker. My oldest brother is ebony and I wanted so bad to be that color. I hated my color for a long time! The THE HOLY SPIRIT  showed me that I did respect THE MOST HIGH how I was created and that included my skin color. YAHWEH do not make mistakes at all! I repented and now I am so happy for my color because it is how I was suppose to be. Now my mother and father have a spectrum of color from White to Ebony which include their five children, then the five children, then their grandchildren and their great grandchildren. We are through Ham and Japheth isn't that awesome! I think it great! I took my DNA twice and it is a wow thing!  Love it Joe Joe this what we have to do to erase sin!

Blessings!

[stinsonmarri]

7 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

YOU told me. Really? And why are you my authority, or anyone else's on the forum? I have no trouble including these additional words into what I said in my comments, because your comments to me are prejudice biggotry 

You dont get to say how I feel; I do, and I am not angry just because I respond in a way that you dont like. I am actually quite relaxed and feeling calm. How is it that you get to see me thousands of miles away and know what emotions I am experiencing?

You definitely did say I was unable to know the "true" answer to any of this because of my skin color  Trying to weasel out of how you said that by back-tracking and saying you only meant it as a sin problem, not me personally is the worst kind of raicism, because the person wont even admit they have a problem. If you were here to simply discuss, instead of set people straight on what you are calling a race or prejudice problem this conversation would be going differently.. The only racist comments I see anywhere on the forum are your comments against white people. Its offensive and disgusting and no one has to put up with it.

PS Your Mom sounds like a nice lady, a wise lady. 

I said was not to say anymore. You stated this: "You definitely did say I was unable to know the "true" answer to any of this because of my skin color." Can you please if you will, provide me where I stated this. I don't try to weasel out anything, but I will try to move away from those who let it be know that they are becoming angry! I try not to continue to angry that person.

Blessings! 

[B/W Photodude]

I previously said:

Quote

When we consider Miriam, we have no idea what inspired Miriam to dislike the wife of Moses. It is too easy to blame it on skin color. It could have been cultural differences, style of dress, or maybe Miriam just didn't like the way Moses's wife cooked her manna! But I do think it is time to stop injecting current American  culture and race relations into a situation that happened 3600 years ago approximately.

But maybe I should say it again. There is no direct statement of why Miriam was upset with the wife of Moses. And as been pointed out, some people see racism where there is none! It is also not good to continue to make statements that are mostly made up of preconceptions of what is thought the Bible said when it didn't say any such thing.

[Gregory Matthews]

O.K  

Let us all take a rest, relax a bit, and enjoy God's creation (Even if cloudy and overcast.) .

I will open this thread tomorrow.  All are welcome back.

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Ah, the clouds are gone.  The sun is shining.  Let the conversation continue in the joy of our Lord.

 

 

[B/W Photodude]

Reading Waggoner, he noted that we are all dirt and will return there. Some may think they are better, but we are all vanity or shadows. Solomon was also very good at pointing out how little we are. I used to think of the mayflies who came and went over a period of hours, but to God, so is our existence a very short period of time.

[stinsonmarri]

On 1/8/2018 at 12:54 PM, The Wanderer said:

I am sorry to inform you that i am not even close to being "angry" I am questioning, NOT you, but your comments which are racist towards people who are white. 

If you think there is racism in the Bible, thats one thing, but to denounce forum members who dont agree with you as "angry" and "racist" is far from the truth. BTW  The so called "racism" in the Bible had no "whites" involved

Let me say this kindly! I too get angry but I have worked on it and have become a better person through prayer. Remember the old saying: "sticks and stones can hurt your bones but words can never hurt you." That my friend was a lie! You do not have to see a person to know he is not happy. Just listen to what that person says or writes. Again, I will say that racism or racist is not correct, because there are no such thing as race. We all are mankind and the Bible did state clearly that we were divided "after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations." What I claim is prejudice and biggotry

[stinsonmarri]

I feel Wanderer is gone and that is sad. I will say that just reason, Trump proved my point. This is not political but sinful. If all do not see that the time of the end is at our face, then something is wrong with you. Are all going to outright lie, like the two Republicans who heard exactly what he said? Now here is prejudice just like EGW warned before the coming of THE SAVIOUR! I even notice the way he raise his hand too! So, I was only trying to get us to face one of the hardest sin to deal with.

We don't want to talk about or deal with it. We need to lay it on the line and check out each of our hearts. EGW did not just talk about the Whites, she include those who are Black that have hatred as well. We cannot enter the kingdom with hatred in our hearts. THE HOLY SPIRIT reads each of our minds and what is hidden there. You cannot say you love HIM whom you have not seen, but hate each other base on our skin color that we see everyday. That include all my White brothers and sisters that YAHSHUA was not White and you must accept that with love. You cannot feel that everybody should look White in the Bible. Most of all we should not even attempt to draw a picture of THE MOST HIGH!!!! None of us should!

YAHWEH came to the Canaanite and blacks first, remember Melchizedek was a Jebusite and a priest of THE MOST HIGH ELOHI! They rejected HIM and Abram was called and Israel was told to wipe them out. YAHWEH would not have done that if they did not know HIM! They didn't and it cause Israel downfall. In Isaiah the Bible said now it time to give it to Japheth and that is exactly what Paul did. Japheth children has fail also and now we all must come to HIM individually. That's it and love how HE created all of mankind in a rainbow of color!

Blessings to everyone! 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

3 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

I will say that racism or racist is not correct, because there are no such thing as race. We all are mankind and the Bible did state clearly that we were divided "after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations." What I claim is prejudice and biggotry

[B/W Photodude]

15 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Again, I will say that racism or racist is not correct, because there are no such thing as race. We all are mankind and the Bible did state clearly that we were divided "after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations."

Actually, there is. In other animals you may call them breeds. Take dogs, as an example. An English Springer Spaniel can breed true to a standard and so can a Vizla. But leave them along together during breeding season and you will have a cross breed. They are both dogs, but they are very different dogs. They will both have red blood. They are similar in having a dog temperament. However, there will be breed differences in temperament. A Border Collie has a very different perspective on their reason for being than say a Saluki. But they are all dogs. It would be foolish to say that there is no such thing as "breeds". Any groups of animals, even to humans, will "breed" true to a certain standard after a time. A person from Sweden can have children with someone from the Congo or Beijing also, and commonly they may be called bi-racial.

Within certain groups, a dog breed can be established after eight generations of true breeding. What this means is that there are breeds of dogs that did not exist at the end of WWII. You may not like the fact that there are races of people, but we are a physically based unit with similar genetic behaviors to animals. The weird thing about it is that even in the wild, some animals have separated into what we even call species of animals. We commonly think that a lion and tiger are separate species of cats, but they can interbreed and produce ligers and tigons! < http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ligers >  Some different animals can reproduce together, but with sterile offspring. This occurs when a donkey has a good time with a horse, then you have a mule which is not capable of reproducing. Female liger are said to be able to reproduce, but not the males.

The problem with it all is that humans like to start imputing value to those different than themselves. No matter what anyone claims, just about all races consider themselves to be better than another. And even some, who have lived under some form of oppression from another race, start reacting against that race in a derogatory manner. Sadly, in Heaven, all of God's children will shine with His glory. When the New Jerusalem comes down to earth, none of the resurrected wicked will be able to come to the gate to speak with their saved family members. They will not be able to tolerate the glory of God which will no longer be hidden. So, whatever your race, if you are behaving in an unChristian manner, your will not bewaring the glory of God!

[Gregory Matthews]

Race:  Scientists who study humanity agree that the word "race" is a word that does not have clearly defined, objective boundaries.  That is the truth behind what Stinsonmarri says when she says that "race" does not exist.  

Regardless, of what the experts say, most English speaking people use that word, believe that they have some sort of and idea as to what it means and how it is defined.  In their use of that word they apply it to many groups of people.  

I can understand how one might say that the use of that word is racist,  but, I cannot say that everyone who uses that word is racist.  There is a point where we use words most familiar to those with whom we wish to communicate,  In common conversations, outside of scholarly circles that word may be one that we will use.

But, this does not preclude either us listening to what Stinsonmarri has to say about it or to her listening to what others have to say about such use and granting each an assesment that does not consider them to be racist due to their use of that word.

 

[LifeHiscost]

In the near future, this will be the result of "breed". 

6 “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, The leopard shall lie down with the young goat, The calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little child shall lead them. Isaiah 11

Since the animals will get along this well on the new earth, I cannot believe that he/she who were made in the image of God would be any less well off, despite the example of the tower of Babel.

18 For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see My glory.  Isaiah 66

God is Love!~Jesus saves!