Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted January 7, 2022 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2022 Humble Disciple said in the quote below. My response: Because it is highly unlikely that a devout Adventist would have had the experience and acting skills to have portrayed Elen White in the film. In addition, the General Conference does not have the ability to identify and select people to perform in such roles. Quote With over 20 million Adventists in the world, why couldn't the General Conference have found a devout Adventist, . . . to portray Ellen White? phkrause 1 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustave Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Quote Humble Disciple said: Here's something other than the topic of abortion. Why did the General Conference hire an actress to portray Ellen White who, in previous films, drank, smoked cigarettes, promoted lesbianism, and simulated sex acts? http://adventmessenger.org/porn-lesbian-actress-played-the-role-of-ellen-g-white-in-the-seventh-day-adventist-film-tell-the-world/ Couldn't they have found someone else to portray Ellen White, the most revered figure in Adventist history besides Jesus Christ Himself? Was the acting bad? I would think it would be difficult to play Ellen White in a movie without the actress having some real "edge". The conventional wisdom inside Adventism suggests that Ellen White "grew" in her spiritual / theological understanding. Ellen started off as a Trinitarian, devolved into an anti-Trinitarian, claimed that breeding between human and animal produced sub races of hominids, for a period of time she was an alcoholic was she not? Many of these things Ellen rectified over time ( at least I think she did). The point I'm trying to make is provided that the actress played the role of Ellen well its irrelevant if the actress smokes cigarettes when she's not on the clock portraying Ellen for the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble Disciple Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 4 hours ago, Gustave said: Was the acting bad? I would think it would be difficult to play Ellen White in a movie without the actress having some real "edge". The conventional wisdom inside Adventism suggests that Ellen White "grew" in her spiritual / theological understanding. Ellen started off as a Trinitarian, devolved into an anti-Trinitarian, claimed that breeding between human and animal produced sub races of hominids, for a period of time she was an alcoholic was she not? Many of these things Ellen rectified over time ( at least I think she did). The point I'm trying to make is provided that the actress played the role of Ellen well its irrelevant if the actress smokes cigarettes when she's not on the clock portraying Ellen for the movie. I would have hoped for the female, Adventist equivalent of Jim Caviezal, who portrayed Jesus in the Passion of the Christ. Not only is he a Christian in real life, but he turns down roles that he considers immoral. Regarding your claims about Ellen White, can you please point me to some articles, especially about her being an alcoholic and her being an anti-Trinitarian? The idea that she was a racist has been debunked a million times over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble Disciple Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 The underlying question is by what criteria is the 7th Day Adventist church to be judged as God's remnant on earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted January 7, 2022 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2022 Gustave said the following quote: * Ellen White came from a religious background that was Trinitarian. As to what her understanding was at that time is unknown. Certainly, at a later time, she was not Trinitarian. With the passage of time, as she developed in her theological understanding, she moved to a more Trinitarian theological position. * I am not aware of any suggestion that she was ever an alcoholic. Please provide documentation that she ever used alcoholic beverages. * As to an EGW statement related to human and animal breeding: The statement to which you probably refer is confusing and not clear as to actually what she was saying. Ellen started off as a Trinitarian, devolved into an anti-Trinitarian, claimed that breeding between human and animal produced sub races of hominids, for a period of time she was an alcoholic was she not? Many of these things Ellen rectified over time ( at least I think she did). phkrause 1 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted January 7, 2022 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2022 I have found the following on the issue of EGW and alcohol. I will continue to look for more information. Ellen White and her Vinegar Addiction (nonsda.org) Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble Disciple Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said: I have found the following on the issue of EGW and alcohol. I will continue to look for more information. Ellen White and her Vinegar Addiction (nonsda.org) Doesn't the Desire of Ages say that when Jesus turned water into wine, it was really unfermented grape juice, and wasn't Ellen White a vocal supporter of the temperance movement? It would be hypocritical if she had an alcohol problem herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble Disciple Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 There are SDA leaders who say that abortion is a sin but that women should have the freedom of choice. I was a Democrat until Joe Biden flip-flopped on the Hyde amendment, after decades of supporting it, just to win the Democratic primaries. The Democratic Party used to say that abortion should be safe, legal and rare. Now they say that women should proudly shout their abortions, with federal tax dollars paying for it. I voted for the Libertarian candidate for president, who might support abortion rights, but at least she didn't insist on tax dollars paying for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHansen Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 21 hours ago, Humble Disciple said: Here's something other than the topic of abortion. Why did the General Conference hire an actress to portray Ellen White who, in previous films, drank, smoked cigarettes, promoted lesbianism, and simulated sex acts? HD, The "trial by ordeal for suspected adultery" (Numbers 5) would lead to abortion for women who became impregnated through adultery. What was essentially an abortifacient was administered by the priest. In our society, people are outraged by abortion. The immorality leading to unwanted pregnancy is the greater sin. Fornicators and adulterers were put to death in ancient times. There was little unwanted pregnancy. Illegitimate children were banished from the Lord's congregation. Now, rather than living moral lives, people would have their offspring killed. It's a horrible commentary on the modern world. Proper diet would postpone maturation in young women, thereby preventing some unwanted pregnancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 On 12/13/2013 at 5:31 PM, Stan said: They will often look and sound like practicing Adventists, often they have not attended Church for years, do not support it with Tithe and Offerings. Often belong to an 'offshoot', for lack of a better word, that proclaim that the Church is Babylon and we are to come out of it and join them, which usually means send the Lord's Tithe to them. It is not unusually for them to take early statements by EGW, and not reflect what she grew and was shown later on in life. The condemn most leadership today, and will cause discouragement to as many as they can, in the name of 'love'. This is interesting. Hey to all. I have to comment and vanish. So it makes me wonder: Did they drift away from the church or did they come closer to Christ while the church drifted closer to the world? Laodiceans only comes in two varieties: 1) Those "rich men," who have need of nothing because they know it all, i.e., they would rather fight to uphold their beliefs rather than to look outside the box and consider the possibility that they may not have everything just right. Was not that the group that led the church to reject righteousness by faith in 1888. It would be horrible if the church leadership were still in that mindset. Jesus spews "rich men," out of His mouth and the fate of the rich men is not so good according to Revelation 6:15. 2) Those who follow Jesus and overcome their need of nothing. I hear so many practicing Adventists sound like republicans. Their politics seem more important than the souls that Jesus came to rescue. Those practicing Advents are turning people away from the church quicker than the Lord can bring them in. If people feel like they have to become republicans to join the church or to be comfortable in it, is it a wonder that the church is having a retention problem. As far as using EGW quotes that are older, (which avoid copyright issues) that is not the "Mark of the Beast." The leadership today is 180 degrees different than that of only a few years ago (Jan Paulsen vs Ted Wilson). And to think that there might be difficulty having unity in the flock? I know a man who gave a faithful tithe, faithful offerings, and faithful donations to the World Budget every week for 30 years (as well as special projects) that literally put his family in debt. And then he learned how the church was wasting his contributions, it broke his heart. I did not know how to console him. But I can understand why he only gives to special projects now and sponsors needy kids etc. And I had an SDA friend that died recently. She left a less than a hundred thousand to her SDA church and split some $ between 2 or 3 supporting ministries and gave 3 times those amounts to ministries that most SDA's would not listen to. Why was her SDA Church given so little and other ministries so much? I even contacted ____ and told him how important it was for him to get in touch with this lady and let her know what IIW is doing for God, and how her gifts were being used, but he never made contact for whatever reason before she died. Almost $1,000,000 from her estate did not go to the SDA Church. It is difficulty to distinguish the wolves, in their humble disguises from sheep in the church, who do not appear to be following the Shepard. I could get into this topic, but I no longer can afford internet service and since I had my stroke (on Friday 13 LOL) I find it best to limit the projects that I put on my plate. If I have access and time, I'll check in now and again. I would like to hear the conclusion When you all get this topic solved so that no one will be led away from following Jesus (the established church in His day knew that He was one of those wolves in sheep's clothing, who was receiving money from people that they thought should go into the church's treasury). Blessings His Child Henry phkrause 1 Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theophilus Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 On 1/5/2022 at 2:30 PM, Humble Disciple said: I am okay with that, but who can we contact in the General Conference to get straight answers on the church's official position on abortion, as well as the amount of abortions performed in Adventist hospitals? This is the same leadership which forced Facebook to shut down a pro-life Adventist Facebook group, claiming copyright ownership over the name "Adventist." I would like to have a kind, polite conversation with someone in the leadership who can answer these questions and concerns. Grab a pencil and write all your complaints down. Then go pick up the phone and call the General Conference!!! Gee Wilikers! 1 (301) 680-6000 Ask them. phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theophilus Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 3 hours ago, hch said: I hear so many practicing Adventists sound like republicans. Their politics seem more important than the souls that Jesus came to rescue. Those practicing Advents are turning people away from the church quicker than the Lord can bring them in. If people feel like they have to become republicans to join the church or to be comfortable in it, is it a wonder that the church is having a retention problem Tell me about it! I know exactly what you mean!!!!! I am anathema because I have been vaccinated!!! Sorry about your stroke. May God Bless you. Prayers. phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 7, 2022 Members Share Posted January 7, 2022 3 hours ago, hch said: I could get into this topic, but I no longer can afford internet service and since I had my stroke (on Friday 13 LOL) I find it best to limit the projects that I put on my plate. If I have access and time, I'll check in now and again. Hi hch, was wondering if you were still around!! Sorry to hear about your stroke! Will add you to my pray list!! Take care of yourself and Happy Sabbath!! Theophilus 1 Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble Disciple Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 54 minutes ago, Theophilus said: Grab a pencil and write all your complaints down. Then go pick up the phone and call the General Conference!!! Gee Wilikers! 1 (301) 680-6000 Ask them. I would have reason to complain if I called them and wasn't able to get straight answers or got answers that were clearly contradictory to what the Bible teaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theophilus Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Humble Disciple said: I would have reason to complain if I called them and wasn't able to get straight answers or got answers that were clearly contradictory to what the Bible teaches. Why are you on here asking for answers? If you have a question and you want to know what the GC hasn't done this or that, ask them. Nobody here is GC. You have been complaining and now you say you would have a reason to complain if you called them? You also complain if you don't. phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble Disciple Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Theophilus said: Why are you on here asking for answers? If you have a question and you want to know what the GC hasn't done this or that, ask them. Nobody here is GC. You have been complaining and now you say you would have a reason to complain if you called them? You also complain if you don't. I am going to share on this forum whatever answers I receive from the General Conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustave Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 21 hours ago, Humble Disciple said: I would have hoped for the female, Adventist equivalent of Jim Caviezal, who portrayed Jesus in the Passion of the Christ. Not only is he a Christian in real life, but he turns down roles that he considers immoral. Regarding your claims about Ellen White, can you please point me to some articles, especially about her being an alcoholic and her being an anti-Trinitarian? The idea that she was a racist has been debunked a million times over. I'd say the odds are that it would be extremely difficult to find the equivalent of Jim Caviezal in Hollywood - be it male or female. It probably came down to a short list of actresses who looked enough like Ellen White, had acting talent and were willing to do the movie. I can't refer you to any articles of Ellen White being an anti-Trinitarian but can produce what her own husband said about that subject. "We invite all to compare THE TESTIMONIES of the Holy Spirit THROUGH Mrs. White with the word of God. And in this we do not invite you to compare them with your creed. That is quite another thing. The TRINITARIAN may compare them with his creed, and because THEY DO NOT AGREE WITH IT, CONDEMN them [ the testimonies of Mrs. White ]. James White / The Adventist Review & Sabbath Herald June 13, 1871 I couldn't produce a more contemporary example of anti-Trinitarianism than that unless perhaps I directed you to an anti-Trinitarian article Ellen White revised / edited herself 7 years after James White affirmed that her testimonies were anti-Trinitarian. The Article (The Personality of God) can be found here: RH18780829-V52-10.pdf (adventistarchives.org) Ellen claimed that God and Christ were ONE in the same manner that Christ and God were ONE, in other words Ellen defined the ONENESS of God identically to how Mormonism defines it - separate beings who are perfectly united in purpose and action and most MATERIAL (assert that God the Father has a flesh body with parts / organs). I can absolutely assure you this is a most radical departure from the Trinity. Additionally, the Council of Nicaea specifically condemned the peccability of Christ as being one of the more blasphemous teachings of Arius. Ellen White vigorously taught the peccability of Christ, repeatedly. I've been rather open here in this forum about my dislike of that particular teaching. I'm not saying these things to again grind on ground already covered but to simply say everyone here on planet is a "work in process" and even in the case of Christians the best many if not most of us can reflect is pure water running though rusty pipes - despite the fact this actress smokes and played parts in movies that goes against our religious understandings the real question is if this actress portrayed those activities in a way that would lead one to believe she was a smoker, or gay, or whatever. A good actress would make you believe they were gay when they aren't, are a smoker when they aren't or even a 19th century religious mystic who helped found a large religion. I purchased a book written by Steve Daily called "Ellen White A Psychobiography" Mr. Daily claims that a few years back that a hacker caused certain writings of Ellen White to become known, part of these hacked materials were acknowledgements that Ellen White drank actual wine & other spirits and drank quite a bit of vinegar which at that time indeed contained alcohol. One does NOT have withdrawals from vinegar. Vinegar from that time period contained around 3% alcohol - drinking a glass of vinegar would have approximated drinking a beer. If Ellen had withdrawals from vinegar to the point she wasn't functional and believed she was going to die it was withdrawals from alcohol she was experiencing, NOT vinegar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustave Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 13 hours ago, hch said: I could get into this topic, but I no longer can afford internet service and since I had my stroke (on Friday 13 Oh man! Sorry to hear this happened to you - hopefully you will make a great recovery. phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 9 hours ago, phkrause said: Hi hch, was wondering if you were still around!! Sorry to hear about your stroke! Will add you to my pray list!! Take care of yourself and Happy Sabbath!! Hi to you as well. I have been so blessed. Went to the ER dragging my left leg and left the hospital a few days later skipping and jumping praising the Lord. Had a full recovery with the knowledge that I am mortal. I had a elderly friend who had wrecked her truck. She was taken to the nursing home for rehab after her hospitalization and I was doing too much to try to help her. Driving to her home twice daily to care for her pets, wrangling with the insurance company to keep her in the NH until she had a full recovery, and getting stressed out. The day after a very stressful event on her behalf, I started having symptoms that I tried to ignore. But I could not ignore that my left leg was not working correctly. If I did not concentrate on walking, I would fall on my face. This topic interests me because of the difficulty to recognize who are the wolves and who are the sheep. That is not an easy task. Lots of folks called Christ a false prophet and rejected the Truth. If people in His day had trouble dividing the sheep and goats, how are we to do it? Having been called so many unkind things(worse than a wolf in sheep's garb) by pious SDA church members and having to struggle with Bible truths that have been trampled into the ground by well meaning brethren and sisters. I spend several hours a day studying the word and writing books that very few people have read. Occasionally, I go to my daughter's place and access the internet to post something on youtube. Right now I use slide show presentations. And I do not always try to align the pictures with the topic. Sometimes it is random pictures and sometimes pictures that seem off the wall. And I have my weekly half-hour radio program on Sunday morning. FYI here are some links to my youtube site Am I a sheep or a wolf? 1. https://youtu.be/QvJOHp3cyBg 2. https://youtu.be/po4XCKX3NGc 3.https://youtu.be/5mLGzS6w2Rk 4.https://youtu.be/ZHBKa2ojUeE 5. https://youtu.be/jxGSoerbCzI God has been so good to allow me to increase in knowledge as the time of Christ's appearing draws near. And He has allowed me to stop wasting time on unimportant bickering that wastes the little bit of time remaining. I'm not getting any younger. And having encountered Gregory Lang (SDA). Mark Biltz (non SDA) and John McFarlane (SDA), who all have come to the conclusion that this world will have its 6,000 year birthday (2027, 2029, 2031) and reading that Christ will cut the Time of Trouble short or the saints would not survive, I have concluded that it is time for me to focus on Jesus and focus on His victory over those sins that beset me. The sheep and the wolves will co-mingle until the Mark of the Beast or the seal of God does the appointed work. Then we will know who is who and it will be to late to change our final decision or the destiny that we have chosen for ourselves. using the hot spot on the phone so I must sign off Blessings His Child Henry Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustave Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Quote Humble Disciple said: The idea that she was a racist has been debunked a million times over. I've never maintained Ellen White was racist, she was simply uneducated and misinformed as to biology. In Ellen's time it was commonly understood by the lower class that over the ages Apes would abduct negresses and pack them deep into the jungle to add to their existing harem - if the woman survived the ordeal she would give birth to a man or a woman with LESS THAN 100% Adamic blood. It was believed this was possible because it was believed that Apes and Humans were "Allied Species". Members of other religions publicly lambasted Ellen White and the SDA's for suggesting an Ape could rape a woman and that act could result in the woman giving birth to a hybrid between an Ape and a Human. The SDA Church through it's general newspaper defended Ellen's visions by citing what the "Naturalists" had been saying about the subject. What had the Naturalists been saying? That Apes indeed had been breeding Negresses in the jungle. On page 1 of the following link is an article titled "THE VISION.....OBJECTIONS ANWERED" read objection #37: RH18660731-V28-09.pdf (adventistarchives.org) The article is quite clear that it ISN'T the fault of an individual who is the result of "THE SIN OF AMALGMATION" because that individual STILL HAS some Adamic Blood in their body. 12 years after the above article demonstrated Ellen White's definition of "Amalgamation of man and beast" another article was produced by the Church paper defending Ellen's Ape/Man hybrid teaching. "Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 1, page 78, was referred to and • ridiculed by the Baptist minister. He said that what Sister White said about amalgamation of man and beast was utterly impossible. I referred him to Johnson's New Cyclopedia, pp. 1040, 1042, that lie might learn for the first time, if he never knew it before, that "Allied species are capable, as a rule, of pairing and producing offspring; " and that, " under the influence of man, mongrel races readily arise and are indefinitely sustained,"—just exactly what Sister White says. The elder said her teachings were worse than Darwinism.But I showed that her teachings were correct (Lev. 18:23, 24), and that his were worse than nonsense. It is not likely that he will be profited' by what I referred him to; for he did not come to hear his discourse reviewed, although before the public I invited him to do so." Here is the link: RH18781128-V52-22.pdf (adventistarchives.org) The section is called "BLIND GUIDES", its after Ellen White's article "SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES". The point is the guy QUOTES Leviticus 18:23,24 which is the prohibition of having sex with animals. The question than would arise about the difference in a negress seeking Ape sex or being abducted by Apes? This is well covered in the book "IMAGES OF SAVAGES" which covers the ancient history of racism back to pre-Roman empire ages. The author makes the point that the naturalists surmised that ONLY females of the Hottentot Tribe would actually seek out Ape partners for sex - females from other tribes were generally abducted against their will. So, this has nothing at all to do with Racism, there was a point in Europe's & American history where this stuff was thought to be "science". I'll go on the record here and say I don't believe Ellen White was a racist at all - she was simply a product of her time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theophilus Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 I found this information on EGW and the Trinity from an SDA forum. It is complete with documents. It appears that EGW may have been a trinitarian after all. Worth looking at. https://whiteestate.org/about/issues/trinity/?fbclid=IwAR3JxW4FDKWTawid-ZREJ5ZoHqNRk_z52KAwU-a_dwYIMBnrFUB3izhKNoc phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustave Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 4 minutes ago, Theophilus said: I found this information on EGW and the Trinity from an SDA forum. It is complete with documents. It appears that EGW may have been a trinitarian after all. Worth looking at. https://whiteestate.org/about/issues/trinity/?fbclid=IwAR3JxW4FDKWTawid-ZREJ5ZoHqNRk_z52KAwU-a_dwYIMBnrFUB3izhKNoc You can't be a Trinitarian while claiming God has composite parts. You can't be a Trinitarian while claiming Jesus could have sinned and lost His salvation. Unless of course you redefine what the Trinity is and claim to believe the new definition. Momon's could do this and validly claim they believe in the Trinity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustave Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Quote Gustave said: Ellen claimed that God and Christ were ONE in the same manner that Christ and God were ONE, in other words Ellen defined the ONENESS of God identically to how Mormonism defines it - separate beings who are perfectly united in purpose and action and most MATERIAL (assert that God the Father has a flesh body with parts / organs). I can absolutely assure you this is a most radical departure from the Trinity. I didn't mean to type the highlighted part. What I intended to say was that "Ellen claimed that God and Christ were ONE in the same manner that Christ and His Disciples were ONE, in other words Ellen defined the ONENESS of God identically to how Mormonism defines it - separate beings who are perfectly united in purpose and action and most MATERIAL (assert that God the Father has a flesh body with parts / organs). I can absolutely assure you this is a most radical departure from the Trinity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theophilus Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 7 hours ago, Gustave said: You can't be a Trinitarian while claiming God has composite parts. You can't be a Trinitarian while claiming Jesus could have sinned and lost His salvation. Unless of course you redefine what the Trinity is and claim to believe the new definition. Mormon's could do this and validly claim they believe in the Trinity. I just presented a paper I found. You are welcome to believe as you wish. I am not responsible for what you believe. It was posted because it came from the white estate, and thought folks would like to see it. The trinity question doesn't bother me. phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustave Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/8/2022 at 4:04 PM, Theophilus said: The trinity question doesn't bother me. I can see that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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