Beware of wolves in Sheep's clothing that come here.

[LifeHiscost]

 

Hope I didn't offend anyone....

 

Robert

As long as you didn't add your own words or deliberately take away His to push your own agenda, there is no reason for the disciple to be offended.

 

18I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book. 20He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.…Rev 22

 

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[Gustave]

It is not unusual for them to take early statements by EGW & not reflect what she grew and was shown later on in life.

 

At what point do SDA's believe that Ellen "became" a prophet?

...Was she considered a prophet when she made the early statements you speak of?

...Was there a different "source" providing her 'information' as she became seasoned or something?

 

It's a serious question. 

[hch]

They will often look and sound like practicing Adventists, often they have not attended Church for years, do not support it with Tithe and Offerings.

Often belong to an 'offshoot', for lack of a better word, that proclaim that the Church is Babylon and we are to come out of it and join them, which usually means send the Lord's Tithe to them.

It is not unusually for them to take early statements by EGW, and not reflect what she grew and was shown later on in life.

The condemn most leadership today, and will cause discouragement to as many as they can, in the name of 'love'.

 

One of the greatest deceptions that the master deceiver can accomplish is to get the sheep to think that the other sheep are wolves in sheep's clothing and to take their eyes off the Shepherd who is quite able to discern who's who.

 

Lest we forget how the Lord has led us in our past history.

 

Who were the wolves in 1888? And who were the sheep?

 

In Christ's Day, who were the wolves and who were the sheep?

 

In Jeremiah's Day, the folks had difficulty distinguishing between the true prophet and the false.

 

Should it be any different today when supposed differences arise?

 

Discernment is of the Lord.

[Kevin H]

And many of them do not believe that Ellen White was a true prophet.

in Christ,

Bob

 And there are those who believe that she was a true prophet, however they read her through the eyes of some of our leaders who tended to focus on parts of what she was saying, and missing parts of what she was saying. Who she and her son wrote letters to telling them that they were misrepresenting her and not understanding her. But their use of her writings has become very popular among some sub groups among us.

[Kevin H]

At what point do SDA's believe that Ellen "became" a prophet?

...Was she considered a prophet when she made the early statements you speak of?

...Was there a different "source" providing her 'information' as she became seasoned or something?

 

It's a serious question. 

She became a prophet with her first vision at age 17. However prophets are people to. She described her visions as seeing snapshots that she had to describe. She also received visions that would help the people where they were at that time and where they could grow. As she received more and more visions. As she became a speed reader and read widely and as she reflected more on the visions she had, she would grow in her understanding.

[Kevin H]

Also another issue is that while God's law is absolute, the Bible and Mrs. White makes applications that tend not to be absolute but that applies to specific situations. However people have a "One size fit's all" mentality. This is what we find some of the Pharisees trying to do in Jesus' day. Much of what they said was good in and of it self. But it became a one size fits all mentality.

 

Another illustration is Mrs. White wrote some things about the circus. There were people involved with circuses who held similar concerns and worked on trying to fix these. One was P. T. Barnum. [ When I was going through the White estate vault at Andrews I came across a paper on a time line of Mrs. White's work. It said that she and Barnum knew each other and that Barnum sponsored Mrs. White to give some health lectures.  I have been unable to confirm this statement. The closest that I could find was that when his program came into town that the church put up a near by tent to minister to those who were going to the show). Anyway, Willie understood Barnum's show not to fall under his mother's condemnation of the circus from earlier and was planning to bring his children to see it. However many church members quoted her earlier quote and said "How can her grandchildren go to the circus after she said this about the circus." Although Willie understood the difference between principle and application, he decided that it would confuse too many people so he decided not to bring the children to see the show.

 

Thus some of the "wolves" that come here are not really wolves in sheep's clothing as such, but just have a disproportionate application of a good principle, that they end up pushing on others.

[LifeHiscost]

Anyway, Willie understood Barnum's show not to fall under his mother's condemnation

... Because God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world,

but that the world might be saved through him. ... John 3:17

 

 

Neither did Ellen White bring anything to the table meant to condemn anyone. When our lives are not in conformity when Truth is uttered, our own conscience condemns us.

 

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18

 

When a police officer pulls me over to warn of a bridge washout, I feel condemned momentarily when I see the red flashing light, but would feel the consequences of failing to recognize the danger had I continued on until driving off into the river. Such is the danger of disregarding warnings in the Word, no matter the rational leading to my actions.

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[Gustave]

As she became a speed reader and read widely and as she reflected more on the visions she had, she would grow in her understanding

 

Ok, so what SDA's claim was that the visions were of a Divine origin however the prophets interpretation of them were subject to error....

...As Ellen became more well read her later interpretations of the same visions abrogated the prior interpretations.

...I.E. "Present Truth" ( what was once the truth is not any longer )?

 

Do SDA's believe that a Prophets Divine skill-set includes the supernatural ability to transmit accurately 'The Prophecy' and the meaning?

...I'm trying to understand the rubrics of SDA theological process here so please forgive the questions.

[LifeHiscost]

 

Do SDA's believe that a Prophets Divine skill-set includes the supernatural ability to transmit accurately 'The Prophecy' and the meaning?

...I'm trying to understand the rubrics of SDA theological process here so please forgive the questions.

When reading the Word I find earnest earstwhile people who don't always meet up to my expectations. While I've been convicted much on points of behavior listed for more successful living practices, I've never, speaking as a Seventh Day Adventist, found following E.G. White's advice harmful to my living standards, and to the contrary, when followed hope for daily life improved and sprang easier from my heart.

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[Gustave]

When reading the Word I find earnest earstwhile people who don't always meet up to my expectations. While I've been convicted much on points of behavior listed for more successful living practices, I've never, speaking as a Seventh Day Adventist, found following E.G. White's advice harmful to my living standards, and to the contrary, when followed hope for daily life improved and sprang easier from my heart.

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

 

 

For the sake of bereity, would you concede that a Mormon could say the same thing & be just as accurate?

[LifeHiscost]

For the sake of bereity, would you concede that a Mormon could say the same thing & be just as accurate?

I really don't think so, at least not one whose conscience has been convicted by the Holy Spirit. This below is a gift only coming from the Person Who asks total commitment and has that right as Creator.

 

6Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Phil 4

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[8thdaypriest]

Ellen White did not claim infallibility.  She would describe the "snapshot" that she "saw", or repeat the words that she "heard".  

 

I'll offer one example:

 

She describes what she believed were the 7 last plagues, but she wrote, "These plagues were not universal". 

 

If you read John's description of the 7 last plagues they ARE universal.  It is the trumpet plagues which are NOT universal.  They effect only 1/3 of things. 

 

Could it not be that she is describing the trumpets, and did not yet understand that the trumpet judgments precede the LAST bowl judgments?

This would mean that the second coming takes place at the 7th trumpet.  The 7 bowl judgments are poured out under that last trumpet. 

It would mean that the redeemed are rescued BEFORE the 7 bowl judgments are unleashed, just as Noah was safe before the universal flood hit, and Lot was "safe" before the fireballs hit.  Lot's wife, whose heart was in Sodom, typifies those who were once part of the family of God, who will be left to destruction.

 

I am at a place now, where I read the descriptions (the snapshots) very carefully, but take her interpretations of those snapshots with caution. 

Her interpretations were, I believe, sometimes influenced by her understanding of things at the time she wrote.

She may have "seen" the wicked at the Second Coming, and thought this snapshot belonged 1000+ years later.  

 

She "saw" children gathering flowers, and placed this in the final kingdom of Messiah on the earth. 

Which makes one wonder why were they still children, 1000+ years AFTER the SC. 

Did they not grow for 1000 years?  Will children be born in the new earth?? 

But her snapshot of children - on the earth - after the 7th millennium, DOES FIT with my belief that all children will be resurrected with "the rest of the dead" to grow up in a Kingdom ruled by Christ and his priests, to learn the ways of God and then choose whom they will serve. 

 

I read Mrs White's writings, but I try to be mindful of "snapshots" (both audio and visual) versus interpretation.

We've already had a log dialog concerning her "growth" from "The Father and Son alone are to be praised."  to  "three living beings of the heavenly trio". 

 

Respectfully

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[Gregory Matthews]

I could think of some responses to make to the above, but I will refrain from doing so.

[LifeHiscost]

They will often look and sound like practicing Adventists, often they have not attended Church for years, do not support it with Tithe and Offerings.

Often belong to an 'offshoot', for lack of a better word, that proclaim that the Church is Babylon and we are to come out of it and join them, which usually means send the Lord's Tithe to them.

It is not unusually for them to take early statements by EGW, and not reflect what she grew and was shown later on in life.

The condemn most leadership today, and will cause discouragement to as many as they can, in the name of 'love'.

Is it alright to quote something from another thread or forum when it seems to fit as an answer applicable? So here goes____________

 

 

 

You can be a good moral athiest person, and keep 9 of the 10 commandments, only one proclaims that you acknowledge publicly that you acknowledge him.  

 

Not to mention this reality as one answer to that quote.

 

10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all....James 2

 

And this helps identify who's side we are on.

 

36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.38This is the first and great commandment.39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.....Matthew 22

 

God is Love!  Jesus loves!  

[Rach]

Good thing the true body(church) of Christ will be choosen by the Father and not by men who bind others to man made doctrines.

[stinsonmarri]

I read many of the comments, but I want to response first to say, I am an Adventist since the fifties. I have seen changes in this church that are not based on the Bible, on men's tradition and doctrines. Many of the wolves the Bible said are the leaders who twist things up. Tithing is a farce and we are not doing it Biblically. We scream loudly against anyone who say that EGW is not a prophet but have not truly read or spoke about her very first vision. 144,000 is not a lot of Adventist. Some come here with stupid games about their avatar pictures, when these subjects are serious and life threatening. Pastor Matthew was heart warming.

Then my friend who once was an Adventist and mean well but is not correct when it concerns EGW. She stated: "If you read John's description of the 7 last plagues they ARE universal." No they are not; sea is not oceans, the saints water shall be sure, darkness was only on the beast and his kingdom. So all of the plagues as EGW said was not universal. Adventist has tares as well as wheat, we should be able to come and discuss are beliefs and to prove if they are correct. We need to be reminded they we are the Ladiodiceans and we are very blinded, high minded which mean we think we know everything for salvation and we don't! We are walking around in darkness because we don't take what's happening to us seriously. We are caught up in paganism ourselves and we are heading for a great fall. Humpdy Dumpty could not be put back together again and neither will this church!

Blessings and Happy Sabbath!

[LifeHiscost]

 

Blessings and Happy Sabbath!

I'm more satisfied to believe this Word to God's children.

 

…3While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 4But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;…1 Thess 5

 

The "they" alluded to in the scripture is properly defined as this below.

 

24Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27“The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28“ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29“ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’ ”....Matthew 13

 

And I'm also satisfied that God gives us endtime messengers that His elect can look forward with decided faith in deliverance.

 

Brethren, we must sink the shaft deep in the mine of truth. You may question matters with yourselves and with one another, if you only do it in the right spirit; but too often self is large, and as soon as investigation begins, an unchristian spirit is manifested. This is just what Satan delights in, but we should come with a humble heart to know for ourselves what is truth. The time is coming when we shall be separated and scattered, and each one of us will have to stand without the privilege of communion with those of like precious faith; and how can you stand unless God is by your side, and you know that he is leading and guiding you? Whenever we come to investigate Bible truth, the Master of assemblies is with us. The Lord does not leave the ship one moment to be steered by ignorant pilots. We may receive our orders from the Captain of our salvation.{1888 547.6}  

 

25Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.....Hebrews 7

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves!

[LifeHiscost]

So who actually gets to say which ones are "wolves" and which ones are "sheep?" Or does everyone just do that on their own?

15"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.…Matthew 7

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[LifeHiscost]

 

The best "false prophet" is false because it is so close to the original. It is possible to exhibit lots of fruit, yet still be "false;" so would "fruit bearing" be the only "test?"  It sounds like you are saying we should all just make this call on our own? Satan himself shall appear as an "angel of light" so when we are talking about wolves in sheep clothing. Should a church as a body decide who are the wolves/sheep? 

My response is to seek to have this promise fulfilled, to each individual who wishes o make sure they are not taken by surprise.

…12"I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14"He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.…John 16

Reading the Word consistently and following the instruction given as a follower of Jesus are sure to give the results sought.

…2You know that when you were pagans, you were led astray to the mute idols, however you were led. 3Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.....1 Corinthians 12

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[LifeHiscost]

I am sorry but this does not work either sometimes either.

You are right. Some of these groups/individuals are pretty nasty experiences. When I attended church I always used to wonder why they could not be honest and upfront about who they were and what they were up to. A lot of people didnt find out till it would be too late

I choose to see keeping our eyes upon Jesus, as opposed to collecting the failures of others, a key to eternal life without end. When one knows Him as a personal Friend, it is easy to see the Truth in the Word.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.....Romans 8

 

32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”....John 8

 

 15 No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you.....John 15

 

  30For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”....Matthew 11

Not wanting to end this measure of the Word on a negative note, but having just heard this from the Word this morning, it does seem to be appropriate.

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.....1 Corinthians 2

 

²³ For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; ²⁴  for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. ²⁵  But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.....James 1

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

 

[hch]

So who actually gets to say which ones are "wolves" and which ones are "sheep?" Or does everyone just do that on their own?

The Good Shepherd. 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

 ^{What an unfortunate and out of context use of scripture here.} 

lol .... don't be too hard on LHC...  you'll get used to what appears to be his out-of-context scriptures .... lots of the time, they don't seem to jive with the topic or comments, but they *do* to LHC...

[LifeHiscost]

 

 

One of the greatest deceptions that the master deceiver can accomplish is to get the sheep to think that the other sheep are wolves in sheep's clothing and to take their eyes off the Shepherd who is quite able to discern who's who.

 

Lest we forget how the Lord has led us in our past history.

 

Who were the wolves in 1888? And who were the sheep?

 

In Christ's Day, who were the wolves and who were the sheep?

 

In Jeremiah's Day, the folks had difficulty distinguishing between the true prophet and the false.

 

Should it be any different today when supposed differences arise?

 

Discernment is of the Lord.

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

 

Good thing the true body(church) of Christ will be choosen by the Father and not by men who bind others to man made doctrines.

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[hch]

lol .... don't be too hard on LHC...  you'll get used to what appears to be his out-of-context scriptures .... lots of the time, they don't seem to jive with the topic or comments, but they *do* to LHC...

It is amazing how Bible passages can look one way in one setting and take on a different hue in another context.

[ChildofChrist]

We are told to keep our eyes on Jesus. Even Peter would say that he was to be looked up to...except has he followed Christ. Yes, we can look to a human as a guide...but at some point we are to look upward and study for ourselves.