Beware of wolves in Sheep's clothing that come here.

[whbae]

I don't know if this is the right column, but I read the Pope Francis has a brother Jorge who is an SDA.  I do not know if I should trust the you tube.

[phkrause]

I believe Won, that this had been brought up in a thread a while back. Can't remember if it was laid to rest or not??

[Stan]

It was discredited....  he may have some relatives that are adventists, but not in his immediate family.  

 

I wonder how much the guy who did the video made on that.

[skyblue888]

On 2013-12-13 at 5:31 PM, Stan said:

Stan, while what you are saying is true there are others we must consider as wolves in sheep's clothing such as those who are usually considered to be in "good standing" by the multitudes but not necessarily so by the Lord. After all every single time the Lord has sent light to His people, who were the first to oppose it and to make it next to impossible for others to receive it? Those in positions of responsibility. At least this is what happened with Ancient Israel. "A nation's sin and a nation's ruin were due to the religious leaders." Desire of Ages, 738. So these religious leaders were wolves in sheep's clothing. And "The Lord has declared that the history of the past will be rehearsed as we enter upon the closing work." Selected Messages, vol.2,390; 1 Cor.10:11.

 

 

[skyblue888]

 

"Those who are really seeking to perfect Christian character will never indulge the thought that they are sinless." SL 7.

"We feel sad to see professed Christians led astray by the false and betwitching theory that they are perfect, because it is so difficult to undeceive them and lead them into the right path." SL 12

_________________

These statements are needed and they are priceless but they do not infer that it is impossible for one to live a righteous life. If we keep reading from SL, p.12 and 13, we read the following words which shed more light on the subject:

"A healthy man, who is able to attend to the vocations of life and who goes forth day after day to his labor with buoyant spirits and with a healthy current of blood flowing through his veins, does not call attention of every one he meets to his soundness of body. Health and vigor are the natural conditions of his life, and therefore he is scarcely conscious that he is in the enjoyment of such a boon. Thus it is with the truly righteous man." SL 12,13.

In other words, the overcomer (Rom.8:37) will be the last to parade his goodness for "The truly righteous man is unconscious of his goodness and piety. Religious principle has become the spring of his life and conduct, and it is just as natural for him to bear the fruits of the Spirit as for the fig tree to bear figs or for the rosebush to yield roses... His life is hid with Christ in God, yet he does not boast of this, nor seem conscious of it." SL 13.

Like the apostle Paul, the truly righteous man will always confess himself to be as the "chief of sinners" (1 Tim.1:15) and yet this man is overcoming through Christ by the Spirit. This is the spirit of the Gospel.

 

[Robert]

1 hour ago, skyblue888 said:

 

"Those who are really seeking to perfect Christian character will never indulge the thought that they are sinless." SL 7.

 

Very good...

[Raphael]

I think those treating the SDA practice in gender leadership preference that is based on continual consistency of entire span of Biblical records, as something modernizable to match modern times are clearly betrayers of the truth thus appropriate to term as wolves in sheep-skin.. I trully believe that they are highly aware of their wrongfullness but stay stubborn thus appropriate to call them the false gems in EGW's vision that made her weep.

[Musicman1228]

On 12/13/2013 at 2:31 PM, Stan said:

They will often look and sound like practicing Adventists, often they have not attended Church for years, do not support it with Tithe and Offerings.

 

Often belong to an 'offshoot', for lack of a better word, that proclaim that the Church is Babylon and we are to come out of it and join them, which usually means send the Lord's Tithe to them.

 

It is not unusually for them to take early statements by EGW, and not reflect what she grew and was shown later on in life.

 

The condemn most leadership today, and will cause discouragement to as many as they can, in the name of 'love'.

Greetings Stan, it's me again. I wonder? Will you treat me as you did many years ago by denigrating what I propose as truth without giving it a fair hearing, or will you now allow me to point out the things Jesus said IN HIS OWN WORDS that He gave to His disciples while He was here on earth, words that without a doubt (at least to me) are the same truth Jesus brought to earth from the Father? I will leave it up to you. If you are willing to test your faith against the truth of THOSE words (not mine) then I will stay and converse with you and the others on this forum. But if you reject this proposal I will leave, and you will be responsible for the lives of those you have kept from a truth that may be different from that which you are accustomed at present. Remember, my friend, even EGW whom you revere (but who I do not believe is a prophet of the Living God) said, "Time does not turn lies into truth". Just because you have believed something a long time does not make that belief true, unless it can be verified against an immutable standard. I propose we use that standard and see where it takes us. Your call.

[Stan]

Sorry, do not remember you.  You are not coming across that well right now.

[Musicman1228]

Stan, my name is Dennis. I would be surprised if you did not remember me, but it is OK if you don't. I do not mean to come across in an ill mannered way, but given some of the topics we sparred on several years ago, and your lead in for this particular topic, would lead me to believe that we will, at the very least (and if you permit it) have interesting and lively discussions. I am a 3rd gen Adventist but no longer identify with the church in which I grew up because it has moved off of the original message. I was reared in the church, went to church school through University (La Sierra), and I believe that the SDA church is seen in the prophecies of Jesus, and those of Daniel and Revelation. We live in a very challenging and unique time in earth's history, and our church still, after all these years, does not know who they are and what they have been charged by God to accomplish in the world before the end. We 'have a name for being alive, but we are dead' spiritually (Rev. 3:1) , because we have lost sight of true message that Jesus came to earth to teach, which is the Gospel of the Kingdom (Matt. 24:14). We have substituted and submitted to a 'different gospel' that was taught to the church by both a false Apostle and a false prophet, that has derailed the Kingdom of the Heavens (yes, the SDA church) into believing a lie as if it is the truth, by faith through grace. I can prove this using the words of Jesus Christ as He gave them to His own eyewitness disciples while He was here on earth, and by using the Law and the Prophets that Jesus came to restore (Matt. 5:17). I have been charged with this job because our church is on the brink of either greatness or ignominy. But I will not go where I am not wanted, nor will I express my understanding of these issues where there are not "eyes to see, and ears to hear". That is why I have made the effort to contact you as the administrator of this forum in a benign way, so that you can decide whether my presence here on the forum is worth the risk. And there is a risk, but where there is great risk there is also great reward. 

I am now the Managing Director of Spirit of Truth Ministry. Our motto is "Honoring the words and teachings of Jesus". We operate two Blog Talk Radio programs each week (Fridays at 10 AM Pacific, and Sabbaths also at 10 AM Pacific time. We have been 'on air' since 2007, and have recorded over 700 programs during that time. Our BTR web site: http://blogtalkradio.com/sot. (sot=spirit of truth). In 2007 Rick Sterling and I (Dennis Neufeld) published a book (Tate Publishing) titled The Spirit of the Church. This book now appears on our Wordpress web site: http://spiritoftruthministry.net. This book lays out the thesis for our ministry, and has been accepted by many people, but rejected by many more, because what it teaches and shows is that the entire Christian church (not just SDA's) have been led to believe a lie as if it is the truth, and based their salvation on this lie. Is it not worth the effort to learn whether or not what you believe to be true actually IS true? If what you believe to be true IS true then testing it will do nothing to change it. But IF the testing proves the point, and you find you have been deceived, then is it not better to find this out before the time comes when you can't change? Jesus statement to His own disciples shows His concern for this issue: 

And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many. Matt. 24:4-5.

My wish, prayer and hope is that you will take the risk of listening to what we at Spirit of Truth Ministry have learned over the past 20 or so years, not with the idea of proving anyone wrong, but proving Jesus right. Thank you for your kind consideration.

Dennis Neufeld

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Dennis, If you *do* decide to post here, I recommend the following:

1) do NOT copy and paste from your website...  

2) don't try to "teach", as if we are all a bunch of misguided ninnies who haven't studied, and you are the one with all the "answers"

3) simply put forth your statement of belief(s), along with your proof and/or concise explanation (again, do not copy and paste from your website) ...

4) be open to other opinions about the meaning of your various "proof texts" — not everyone sees the same thing in them.

[Gail]

I remember...

[Gregory Matthews]

Dennis:

I commend you for telling us exactly who you are and where we can access your teachings on the Internet.  In my thinking, that is a positive.

To me, the manner in which your have presented yourself in approaching Stan, is a negative.  This is both on a personal basis and on a general basis.  You challenge us to be willing to consider "new truth" and   willing to learn.   Yet, you come across as having truth and no need for you to learn.  There are also some other negatives that I could mention.

NOTE:  I do not remember you.  I have not visited your Internet sites at this time, however I probably will do so.  In any case, my comments here have noting to do with what you teach.  They are simply based upon my reaction to what you have posted here. 

[Gregory Matthews]

Dennis:  I have clicked on both of your listed URLS.  Neither work.  I did eventually find your website.  But, it should be noted that there appear to be a number of "Spirit of Truth Ministries" who are not associated with you.

If it is indeed you who wrote a PhD. thesis entitled: INTERACTION OF XENON RYDBERG ATOMS WITH CONDUCTIVE SERFACES THE EFFECTS OF STRAY FIELDS, you do have an interesting background.  I think that I did find your cited book online, at least I found a place that claimed to be your book, I think.  If so, it seems to be a work in progress with the most recent posting to have occurred on June 3.  In any case, it did not seem to be easier reading than your thesis probably was.

My recommendation:  If you wish to engage in dialogue here in CA, you should probably make some changes in the manner in which you seem to engage people.

 

 

[Stan]

6 hours ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

Dennis, I you *do* decide to post here, I recommend the following:

1) do NOT copy and paste from your website...  

2) don't try to "teach", as if we are all a bunch of misguided ninnies who haven't studied, and you are the one with all the "answers"

3) simply put forth your statement of belief(s), along with your proof and/or concise explanation (again, do not copy and paste from your website) ...

4) be open to other opinions about the meaning of your various "proof texts" — not everyone sees the same thing in them.

Good advise for everyone....  

[Femster]

On 12/14/2013 at 9:42 PM, Gregory Matthews said:

From Wikepedia:

 

 

Quote:

The Zygons are a fictional extraterrestrial race in the long-running British science fiction television programme Doctor Who.

 

* * * * * *

 

The Zygons have shape-shifting abilities, allowing them to replicate the appearance of another being, but they must keep the subject alive in order to use its body print. This skill was vital in their concealment and in their scheme to seize power despite their small numbers.

in that case, i am a dalek!

 

[Musicman1228]

Hi, everyone. 

I am sorry the first link did not function. Here it is again. I have checked it and it works: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sot

The reason I said what I said and the way in which I said it  was to let Stan and the rest of you know that I would never presume to teach you anything, that all I do (where appropriate) is tell people what I have learned. I did this in this way because it has been my experience both here (in the long past) and elsewhere where people speak of theological things that when I make comments that disagree with their perspectives they get a little testy. I am sorry that I presumed that you lovely people would be the same, and for that I apologize. I do think it prudent to warn you that my thought processes and conclusions vis a vis the doctrines and theology and prophetic interpretation are often very different that that which I was taught during my Adventist education. I will never say to you that you must believe in the same way as do I; that is for you to decide. I wanted to give you the opportunity up front to make the decision as to whether you even wanted to hear anything I have to say. If you agree to allow me to join your 'merry band' then I think we can have some exciting and challenging interaction. If not, then that would mean that I would not waste either your valuable time or mine in presenting things that you have no interest in hearing. It is as simple as that. I never meant to denigrate or impugn the beliefs of anyone, as I believe the Golden Rule applies in all belief systems. 

[JoeMo]

5 minutes ago, Musicman1228 said:

I do think it prudent to warn you that my thought processes and conclusions vis a vis the doctrines and theology and prophetic interpretation are often very different that that which I was taught during my Adventist education. I will never say to you that you must believe in the same way as do I; that is for you to decide. I wanted to give you the opportunity up front to make the decision as to whether you even wanted to hear anything I have to say. If you agree to allow me to join your 'merry band' then I think we can have some exciting and challenging interaction.

I think you will find several very open minds here, if you've been gone for a while.  Rudywoofs (Pam) posted excellent guidelines here.  I also have many "different" ideas about eschatology and salvation the one would find in traditional/historical Adventism.  My basic rule for posting some of my more "out there" stuff is that I NEVER (well - rarely) tell people they are wrong and I am right.  The harshest thing I usually say is that "I don't agree with you", and explain.  If you treat others here with the respect you would like, you shouldn't have any problems.

[Aliensanctuary]

 

Quote

But if you reject this proposal I will leave, and you will be responsible for the lives of those you have kept from a truth that may be different from that which you are accustomed at present.

It's either the red pill or the blue pill.

[Stan]

The purpose of this forum does not include providing an free audience so that others can try and make them non-adventist.

[Musicman1228]

Thanks, JoeMo, for your encouragement and council. As you have probably gathered from my opening statements I, too, present truth that is (as you put it) "our there", with respect to standard Adventist eschatology. But from what I gather, reading the past posts on this thread, we would be considered to be 'wolves in sheep's clothing' to those that toe the party line. Apropos of this and other discussions you might find it interesting to listen in to our radio broadcast each Friday and Sabbath at 10 AM PT: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sot

These programs will show you from where my perspective is generated, and why many here and other place 'might' consider these ideas to be subversive to the thinking that is currently present in the SDA denomination.

As to 'wolves' in sheep's clothing: the operation here is the fact that these people will LOOK like sheep, but speak as wolves. 

[Musicman1228]

When Jesus came to Israel and presented the Gospel of the Kingdom, they saw Him as a 'sheep in wolves clothing' (not a wolf in sheep's clothing), which is why they wanted to kill Him. The leadership of Israel believed lies as if it was the truth. When Jesus pointed this out to them He appeared to them as a wolf, not as a sheep (one of them). They saw Jesus as a sheep because of His works: 

"Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." John 3:2.

But when He spoke and told them the Truth come from God they then perceived Him as a wolf.

[Rick Sterling]

What about a sheep in wolf's clothing? Seeing and Perceiving are two different things. With our physical eyes we see that which has substance. With our heart (seat of understanding) we perceive spiritual reality. The Son of God is spiritually portrayed as a Lamb, and also as the Good Shepherd, but by the religious leaders He was perceived a wolf. To the scribes, priests and Sanhedrin He was a sheep in wolf's clothing. A sheep because He was teaching as someone with authority, attracting huge crowds; but a wolf, because by their understanding of the Law of Moses, a miracle working deceiver. The evil one successfully deceived the religious leadership of the Jews that Jesus was a wolf; but in reality He was the Lamb of God.

Ask yourself this question. If the Son of God appeared now, in the same way He did at His first advent, would His reception be any different? The Seventh-day Adventist organization have long-held beliefs which will withstand any challenge; or are they?

The reason I talk to them in parables is that they look without seeing and listen without hearing or understanding. So in their case this prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled: You will listen and listen again, but not understand, see and see again, but not perceive. Matthew 13:13-14 (JB)

My hope is that we will not repeat the mistakes made by those who heard His testimony at His first advent.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

@ Musicman1228 and Rick Sterling:   Why don't you fellows start your own thread on a topic you'd like to discuss, rather than take over this one?  And hopefully that topic will be one where the Adventist church is not denigrated, made to look foolish, or otherwise disrespected.

[LifeHiscost]

On 6/8/2016 at 8:17 AM, Musicman1228 said:

Hi, everyone. 

I am sorry the first link did not function. Here it is again. I have checked it and it works: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sot

The reason I said what I said and the way in which I said it  was to let Stan and the rest of you know that I would never presume to teach you anything, that all I do (where appropriate) is tell people what I have learned. I did this in this way because it has been my experience both here (in the long past) and elsewhere where people speak of theological things that when I make comments that disagree with their perspectives they get a little testy. I am sorry that I presumed that you lovely people would be the same, and for that I apologize. I do think it prudent to warn you that my thought processes and conclusions vis a vis the doctrines and theology and prophetic interpretation are often very different that that which I was taught during my Adventist education. I will never say to you that you must believe in the same way as do I; that is for you to decide. I wanted to give you the opportunity up front to make the decision as to whether you even wanted to hear anything I have to say. If you agree to allow me to join your 'merry band' then I think we can have some exciting and challenging interaction. If not, then that would mean that I would not waste either your valuable time or mine in presenting things that you have no interest in hearing. It is as simple as that. I never meant to denigrate or impugn the beliefs of anyone, as I believe the Golden Rule applies in all belief systems. 

I happen to live in a mobile home park entitled "The church of Jesus Christ of the golden rule" of which I've spent many (26) years and have been a recipient of many perks that indicate they truly believe that rule. Since the post above indicates the same source of wisdom, I'm expecting some strong indications of principles espoused by the King of Kings  from His Word. Whether they are cut and paste is irrelevant  as long as they're accurate. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

God is Love!~Jesus saves! Hope you have a