Our thinking on bacon has "evolved."????? SAY WHAT??

[Stan]

Florida Hospital ends bacon ban with opening of Panera Bread

Big News Network (UPI) Tuesday 7th January, 2014

ORLANDO, Fla. -- An official with Florida Hospital in Orlando said the facility's thinking on bacon has "evolved" to allow an eatery on restaurant property to serve it.

Florida Hospital, run by Adventist Health System, has banned a Wendy's restaurant on hospital property from serving bacon for more than a decade due to religious reasons, but a Panera Bread restaurant opened on the hospital's property across from the Wendy's is being allowed to serve bacon and other pork products, the Orlando Sentinel reported Tuesday.

David Banks, senior executive for the campus, said the hospital's thinking on bacon has "evolved."

"Those are two decisions separated probably by about 20 years," he said. "We really wrestled with the issue."

"We deeply believe in the things we believe in," he said of Seventh-day Adventists, whose beliefs include the Old Testament's banning of pork and shellfish.

However, he said "we also want people to have choice."

"While it's an important part of the Adventist subculture, it's not the thing we want to be known for... It's a little bit of a shift in thinking," he said.

Banks said the bacon ban at Wendy's may be revisited when the eatery next seeks to renew its lease.

- See more at: http://www.bignewsnetwork.com/index.php/...h.i6Pv4f58.dpuf

[phkrause]

Well that's interesting, but sad. Another hospital, that got in bed with pork, went downhill until they had to close there doors. Its one thing to go ahead and serve meat, but to go against our own health laws, not sure I can agree with that.

[olger]

Veddy interesting.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I wonder why they couldn't have said to use beef bacon and other beef products instead of pork?

[Gail]

Quote:

"While it's an important part of the Adventist subculture, it's not the thing we want to be known for...

Well, it IS one thing Adventists are known for, and now no one will forget its connection to this place

[olger]

What next? Abortion on demand at our hospitals???

`G

[Johann]

At my latest visit to Elmshaven it struck me that Ellen White had items on the menu for the staff which she did not use herself, and she also had more meals for them than for herself. Was she too "liberal" for the Adventist Church today?

[Gerr]

Giving people the freedom to choose is commendable, but I wonder if they will also give them the choice to serve wine or other alcoholic beverages on hospital property? A theater? A strip club? A slippery slope?

[Naomi]

Florida Hospital, run by Adventist Health System, has banned a Wendy's restaurant on hospital property from serving bacon for more than a decade due to religious reasons, but a Panera Bread restaurant opened on the hospital's property across from the Wendy's is being allowed to serve bacon and other pork products, the Orlando Sentinel reported Tuesday.

My first instinct was surprise, then I revisited the issue. They are leasing the property to Panera & Wendy's. If I lease my farm to someone and they chose to raise hogs instead of cattle, or sheep do I have the right to forbid the hog on my property that they lease? I realize that in the example of the hospital it is a provision of a legal lease agreement ...

However, would it not be better PR if they had forbid pork products for modern health reasons (not religious reasons). Many secular Dr's recommend not eating pork for various diseases.

Certainly it is a complex issue ... God allows us to make our personal lifestyle choices

[olger]

Well, the Sabbath applies to our oxen and ass, and the stranger that is "within our gate."

Just sayin'

G

[Tom Wetmore]

The distinction there would be that the Sabbath is one of the ten commandments, a matter of moral significance. The rules of clean vs. unclean are not.

[Johann]

The distinction there would be that the Sabbath is one of the ten commandments, a matter of moral significance. The rules of clean vs. unclean are not.

I am in agreement with you.

On the less clear rules I wonder if they apply in the same way to you and to me?

[Tom Wetmore]

The modern health reasons might not be all that helpful either. In the pork vs. beef comparison, beef has twice as much fat and saturated fat as pork. Since the fat content of meat is the single worst culprit in adversely effecting cardiovascular health, pork wins. And pork is a better source of protein. Other health aspects of the comparison are pretty much a toss up. Granted we are talking about bacon primarily which has more fat than other pork products. But the bacon added to sandwiches is usually a fairly small portion compared to the other ingredients.

Let's compare the cheese on the average sandwich vs the bacon. Again, the cheese has more calories and fat than the bacon.

And then let's compare the health comparison to the pastries also sold by Panera or ice cream that few Adventists would object to.

The bottom line is that clean vs. unclean diet, if all else is equal, simply does not offer a significant health advantage. More importantly, there are far better alternatives to achieving an optimum healthy diet. Vegetarian for example. Substantial reduction in refined carbohydrate consumption would likely be far more beneficial to many folk that just avoiding unclean meat.

[Johann]

These days the message via Harvard University going to the whole world is that nuts is what you need for good health and longevity. We should know that.

Just beware of too much salt on your peanuts. It may cause trouble for your heart.

[olger]

So clean and unclean foods are not a moral issue...? I suggest a Ryan-Bell type experiement of your own. You spend a year eating Schwein (pork) lobster, shrimp and all manner of unclean foods and see if affects you morally. If you are correct, that it isn't a moral issue, you should be fine. Report back.

`G

[OzarkWoman]

Giving people the freedom to choose is commendable, but I wonder if they will also give them the choice to serve wine or other alcoholic beverages on hospital property? A theater? A strip club? A slippery slope?

Why not, since it would make them more money?! I mean, they don't have any problems with committing murder by performing elective abortions. Double talk and speak and money and what else?

BTW, eating unclean and/or clean meats and such is not a moral issue.

[Tom Wetmore]

Someone to whom I look for moral guidance once said that what goes into my mouth isn't morally corrupting, it is what comes out that is the moral problem. As I recall he elaborated on that a bit by saying that what I eat goes into my stomach and eventually out the other end thereby purging my system of such things. But what comes out of my mouth is from a different part of me that has more to do with my moral values.

By the way, do you have a pet dog or cat?

[CoAspen]

So clean and unclean foods are not a moral issue...? I suggest a Ryan-Bell type experiement of your own. You spend a year eating Schwein (pork) lobster, shrimp and all manner of unclean foods and see if affects you morally. If you are correct, that it isn't a moral issue, you should be fine. Report back.

`G

Its not an expermient! We have people walking around everyday that are doing just that. So.....please explain how that is affecting them 'morally'?

Moral

adjective

adjective: moral1. concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character.

noun

a person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do.

[olger]

Someone to whom I look for moral guidance once said that what goes into my mouth isn't morally corrupting, it is what comes out that is the moral problem. As I recall he elaborated on that a bit by saying that what I eat goes into my stomach and eventually out the other end thereby purging my system of such things. But what comes out of my mouth is from a different part of me that has more to do with my moral values.

By the way, do you have a pet dog or cat?

No!

I got you, what more could I want?

:)

[Johann]

In principle I agree with you, Gerry. I have never during my 80 years tasted a piece of uncleaned meat, and I have always taught my baptismal candidates to keep away from meat, if at all possible, and definitely unclean meat.

On the other hand it was not a test of fellowship in the Seventh-day Adventist church in the early years of my ministry. That was based on the following statement of Ellen White:

Quote:

We are not to make the use of flesh food a test of fellowship, . . .{9T 159.3}

In the general notes in Manuscript Releases you find the following statement about the views of Ellen White:

In 1905 she again expounded favorably on the distinction as given to the Jews, this time mentioning, in addition to pork, “other animals and birds whose flesh was pronounced unclean.” The passage goes on to enumerate other aspects of Jewish health laws which Seventh-day Adventists have never sought to enforce, so that in summary it can be said that Mrs. White never explicitly declared that the general distinction between clean and unclean meats was one which Seventh-day Adventists were still bound to observe. Her statements commending the Jewish practice certainly encourage that position, but never make it explicit. {MR852 3.1}

That is the main reason why we teach people to abstain from unclean meats as an important health principle, but not as a moral obligation like keeping the ten commandments.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Giving people the freedom to choose is commendable, but I wonder if they will also give them the choice to serve wine or other alcoholic beverages on hospital property? A theater? A strip club? A slippery slope?

Why not, since it would make them more money?! I mean, they don't have any problems with committing murder by performing elective abortions. Double talk and speak and money and what else?

BTW, eating unclean and/or clean meats and such is not a moral issue.

Maybe to you, but to me, if I God says not to touch or eat something and I do it, it's a moral issue.

[Gerr]

The distinction there would be that the Sabbath is one of the ten commandments, a matter of moral significance. The rules of clean vs. unclean are not.

Was the fruit of the tree in the Garden among the 10c? Was it a moral issue?

[olger]

For

Sooth,

G

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore

The distinction there would be that the Sabbath is one of the ten commandments, a matter of moral significance. The rules of clean vs. unclean are not.

Was the fruit of the tree in the Garden among the 10c? Was it a moral issue?

At first look that seems like a "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" sort of question. But really it is more of an apples to oranges comparison thing.

I think there was a major moral paradigm shift that happened as a result of that event in Eden. And then another at Sinai. And it wasn't until Moses that the ten were carved in stone. DId they exist prior to that point? And it also seems relevant to this discussion that the rules, other than the ten commandments, changed again at Calvary. Some might say that was more than a paradigm shift. It was a game changer. See Paul's writings on that.

[olger]

plagiarized from the internets:

"I am fascinated by the casual comment that closes chapter two of Genesis. “The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.” With this comment, Moses drops a pin marker in pre-fall paradise and then moves into the story of sin in chapter three. Here we see disgrace for the first time (v. 7), and they weren’t glorying in it either (Philippians 3:19).

When the flush of forbidden excitement faded into monochrome reality, Adam & Eve first saw themselves in the cold light of conviction. They were not just naked; they were now the raw edge of genetic vulnerability. And they were... ashamed. It was a flashing “check heart” light on the dashboard of their tender conscience.

Six thousand years later (give or take a week), we seem to have entered a different time in history. Shame is no longer an approved tool in society's toolbox. And it’s actually a shame. Shame can keep people from making many dumb decisions.

`G