Doctrines of Devils and Seducing Spirits, Spiritual Formation

[Reddogs]

I came article in the Review and Herald, by Ellen White which really hit home of what is happening today in the ideas and changes coming into our churches in the last few months. When I read it, the events and issues I have seen or come across came into focus, especially as at the Conference level they are fully aware of the Spiritual Formation and other non Biblical concepts and processes being let into and openly done and applied in many Adventist schools andchurches. Those who try to oppose it are being held up and described as the Conference told us as a few 'more conservative members' while some have used the words 'fanatics' and 'extreme' for holding on to Adventist views on proper worship and church oversight, with even harsher words from others once considered friends or even worse from family members.

The excerpt below is from the R&H and goes into how many true followers of God must suffer at the end as "False accusers," and "despisers of those that are good," will attack those who are faithful:

The apostle Paul warns us that "some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils." This is what we may expect. Our greatest trials will come because of that class who have once advocated the truth, but who turn from it to the world, and trample it under their feet in hate and derision. God has a work for his faithful servants to do. The attacks of the enemy must be met with the truth of his word. Falsehood must be unmasked, its true character must be revealed, and the light of the law of Jehovah must shine forth into the moral darkness of the world. We are to present the claims of his word. We shall not be held guiltless if we neglect this solemn duty. But while we stand in defense of the truth, let us not stand in defense of self, and make a great ado because we are called to bear reproach and misrepresentation. Let us not pity ourselves, but be very jealous for the law of the Most High.

Says the apostle, "The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." On every side we see men easily led captive by the delusive imaginations of those who make void the word of God; but when the truth is brought before them, they are filled with impatience and anger. But the exhortation of the apostle to the servant of God is, "Watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry." In his day some left the cause of the Lord. He writes, "Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world;" and again, he says, "Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words."

Prophets and apostles experienced similar trials of opposition and reproach, and even the spotless Lamb of God was tempted in all points like as we are. He bore the contradiction of sinners against himself.

Every warning for this time must be faithfully delivered; but "the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient; in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves." We must cherish carefully the words of our God lest we be contaminated by the deceptive workings of those who have left the faith. We are to resist their spirit and influence with the same weapon our Master used when assailed by the prince of darkness,--"It is written." We should learn to use the word of God skillfully. The exhortation is, "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." There must be diligent work and earnest prayer and faith to meet the winding error of false teachers and seducers; for "in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." These words portray the character of the men the servants of God will have to meet. "False accusers," "despisers of those that are good," will attack those who are faithful to their God in this degenerate age. But the embassador of Heaven must manifest the spirit that was displayed in the Master. In humility and love he must labor for the salvation of men.

Paul continues concerning those who oppose the work of God, comparing them to the men who made war against the faithful in the time of ancient Israel. He says: "Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth; men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was." We know that the time is coming when the folly of warring against God will be revealed. We can afford to wait in calm patience and trust, no matter how much maligned and despised; for "nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest," and those who honor God shall be honored by him in the presence of men and angels. We are to share in the sufferings of the reformers. It is written, "The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me." Christ understands our grief. Not one of us is called to bear the cross alone. The suffering Man of Calvary is touched with the feeling of our woes, and as he has suffered being tempted, he is able also to succor them that are in sorrow and trial for his sake. "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned."

God has provided abundant means for successful warfare with principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places; for "all Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." The Bible is the armory where we may equip for the struggle. Our loins must be girt about with truth. Our breastplate must be righteousness. The shield of faith must be in our hands, the helmet of salvation shine on our brows, and the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God, be wielded to cut our way through the ranks of our bitter foes. We must be ready, at the command of our Captain to follow where he may lead. We must be doers of his word, not deceiving our own selves.

If we look to self, and trust in self, we shall surely fall from our steadfastness. The terrible tempest that is gathering will sweep away our sandy foundation, and leave our house a wreck on the shores of time; but the house that is built upon the rock shall stand forever. We must be "kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation." The apostle spoke some plain words to his Hebrew brethren, that meet the condition of many of those who profess the truth for this time. "We have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. [They were not quick to discern the things of the Spirit of God.] For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness; for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." It is positively necessary for those who believe the truth, to be making continual advancement, growing up unto the full stature of men and women in Christ Jesus. There is no time for backsliding and indifference. Each one must have a living experience in the things of God. Have root in yourselves. Become grounded in the faith, so that having done all you may stand, with unwavering confidence in God, through the time that will try every man's work and character. Exercise your powers in spiritual things, till you can appreciate the deep things of God's word, and go on from strength to strength.

There are thousands who claim to have the light of truth who take no steps in advance. They have no living experience, notwithstanding they have had every advantage. They do not know what consecration means. Their devotions are formal and hollow, and there is no depth to their piety. The word of God offers spiritual liberty and enlightenment to those who seek for it earnestly. Those who accept the promises of God, and act on them with living faith, will have the light of heaven in their lives. They will drink of the fountain of life, and lead others to the waters that have refreshed their own souls. We must have that faith in God that takes him at his word. We can have no victory without cloudless confidence; for "without faith it is impossible to please" God. It is faith that connects us with the power of Heaven, and that brings us the strength for coping with the powers of darkness. "This is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith." "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." In order to exercise intelligent faith we should study the word of God. The Bible, and the Bible alone, communicates a correct knowledge of the character of God and his will concerning us. The duty and the destiny of man are defined in its pages. The conditions on which we may hope for eternal life are explicitly stated, and the doom of those who neglect so great a salvation is foretold in the most forcible language.

Had the Bible been received as the voice of God to man, as the book of books, as the one infallible rule of faith and practice, we would not have seen the law of Heaven made void, and the swelling tide of iniquity devouring our land.

As men wander away from the truth into skepticism, everything becomes uncertain and unreal, No thorough conviction takes hold of the soul. No faith is exercised in the Scripture as the revelation of God to men. There is nothing authoritative in its commands, nothing terrifying in its warnings, nothing inspiring in its promises. To the skeptic it is meaningless and contradictory.

There are many among us who are not cultivating faith. They have a vacillating experience. They are "like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed." Sometimes they seem strong in faith, then a blast of unbelief sweeps over them, and they are filled with gloom and doubt. They make no decided efforts to recover themselves out of the snare of the Devil, but are taken captive by him at his will. There are others who, when assailed by temptations of unbelief, flee to the word of God and to earnest prayer, and they are not left to the power of the enemy. The day is coming that will reveal whether we are building on the solid rock or the sliding sand.

If men could realize the blighting influence of doubt upon their minds, if they could but see into the future, they would realize the imperative need of cultivating firm trust in God and implicit confidence in his promises. They would not sow one grain of unbelief; for every single grain blossoms into fruit. Satan is a living, active agent. It is his business to encourage skepticism, and every word of doubt is carefully nourished by the adversary of souls. While men sleep in indifference, suggestions that weaken faith are insinuated into the heart. Influences that confuse the perception of truth are brought to bear upon the life. In every way possible, Satan strives to turn souls from the narrow path that leads to heaven; and because men love darkness they follow the voice of strangers, and reject the call of the Good Shepherd who gave his life for the sheep. The plain, authoritative "Thus saith the Lord," is refused for some winding sophistry of error. Infidelity has increased in proportion as men have questioned the word and requirements of their Maker. They have taken up the work of cheapening character, and lessening faith in the inspiration of the Bible. Men claiming great wisdom have presumed to criticise and cut and cull the words of the living God, and have started questions to make shipwreck of the happiness of their fellowmen and to ruin their hopes of heaven. This is a work that is pleasing to the enemy of all righteousness. The arguments that men bring against the Bible are the result of the counsels of the evil one. The door of their minds was opened to his suggestions, and the more they drifted into error, the greater grew their desire to draw other souls into the same channel of darkness.

Many claim to believe the Bible, and their names are enrolled on the church records, who are among the most influential agents of Satan. The work they are doing they will not consider an honor to them in the day of Judgment. It will then be seen that every effort that weakened faith was made at a terrible loss. The tremendous price that must be paid will sink them into everlasting shame and ruin. The only safety is in rejecting instantly every suggestion of unbelief. Do not open your mind to entertain doubts, for even an instant; bid them a decided refusal as they come to you for admission. Fasten the mind upon the promises of God. Talk of them, rejoice in them; and the peace of God will rule in your hearts.

The fruits of doubt are not desirable. Oh! look around you and see what havoc has been wrought by the machinations of the evil one. Error and falsehood and heresy have held high carnival in the deceived hearts of men. From century to century the adversary has repeated his experiments with growing success; for in spite of the sad records of lives that have gone out in darkness, as moths fly to the fire, so men rush on into the ruinous deceptions that he has prepared to entrap them. If you desire salvation, I entreat you to shun his insinuations concerning the truth of God's word. Come to the "sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place." If that is not authoritative, what is? If the word of the Lord of heaven and earth is not solid rock upon which to build, then it is in vain to look for a sure foundation. "Heaven and earth shall pass away," but "the word of the Lord endureth forever;" and unwavering faith in his word is the only faith that will endure through the perils of the last days.... By Mrs. E. G. White. R&H "The Faith That Will Stand the Test" Vol. 65, #2

[Reddogs]

In his keynote sermon, Ted N.C. Wilson, the President of the Seventh-Day Adventist church counseled,

“Stay away from non-biblical spiritual disciplines or methods of spiritual formation that are rooted in mysticism such as contemplative prayer, centering prayer, and the emerging church movement in which they are promoted.”

Why would Elder Wilson ask us to stay away from spiritual disciplines or formation? But it appears there are whole conferences who are going full force into these dangerous practices. The spiritual formation movement is spreading in our church but it is a move away from the truth of God's Word into a mystical form of Christianity, and it has infiltrated, to some degree, nearly all Christian denominations.

Our little group trying to become a company and then full fledge church, had a meeting with the Conference and the Pastor of the church the Conference has selected to sponsor our growing group so that we can go through the process of becoming a church. Well it began with the Pastor of the sponsoring church going from a list he had prepared to go over the steps in the process which we all know as many in our group as retired pastors or elders. But there was a additional step which was in the list which appeared or struck us to be a bit odd. On the list and I will try to put it verbatim as I gave the list to one of the others to compare to what had been sent to our group prior to the meeting, was a requirement for us to have the conference to go through 'training with the leaders (Spiritual Bonding}'.

When we questioned the Pastor from the sponsoring church he told us it was not from his church board, but was requested specifically to be inserted by the Conference. So we asked the Conference leader that had been sent down and he stated 'we were not being singled out' but that some new churches and groups had not been following 'guidelines' and so all of them were being required to go through 'training with the leaders (Spiritual Bonding}'. We asked why as life long or well established members we would have to be 'trained' and why this 'training' had not been shown to church members in the conference so they could see what it was and review its purpose and methods, and the Conference leader told us this 'training' would be sent to all the church's so the members get trained as they wanted all to be 'Spirit Led' not just the new churches and groups.

My question to everyone here is has anyone heard of this 'training with the leaders (Spiritual Bonding}'. Some of our members had been shown 3 books as part of the Spiritual Formation coming into our church and not told what it was or what they contained, but that 'they should read it'. When I went back then to the church board, a special 'training' was being planned for the members as part of the Spiritual Formation and is one of the reasons we formed our group. I cannot say till we see what the Conference uses for materials as the Conference leader says it would go over proper church management and procedures such as from the church manual, so we shall see. But it is worrisome to say the least that 'training' is going to be spread to "every church" in our conference, be vigilant and be aware of what is happening, it seems this 'Spiritual Bonding' is part and parcel of Spiritual Formation being forced upon church members.

[Reddogs]

But let me back up and give a history of why we are forming a company to become a church. We were in our new church which we had just built and the new pastor the conference had sent started to tell us some 'ideas' he wanted to implement. He started planning on forming groups in our church and it looked like it was for teaching us spiritual formation from what leaked out, but no one was talking. So we put our ears to the ground, staying wise as serpents, and harmless as doves, and opened our eyes to see what was happening.

Then out of the blue, the pastor made a presentation right in the middle of the sermon, literally of the 'groups' that would be formed in the church for 'spiritual formation'. The pastor stopped his sermon and brought up the 'leaders' of each group and urged everyone to join one of the groups, needless to say our members (who tend to be more conservative and believe in the SOP) in the church were apprehensive.

Well, they formed the groups and the response was not what they considered 'overwhelming' and so the pastor continued to promote the groups. So he had some of the 'group leaders' come up to the front and tell us about it, and when they came to the part of when they meet, I almost fell over. They had the meeting on 'Wednesday', and well

their was only one little problem, the church had a strong Wednesday night bible study and has been trying to encourage people to come even those from outside the church especially as we were into a great study on Revelation. But this 'group' thought nothing of holding their meetings in direct conflict with the church meeting, and they didnt see the irony at all.

Then it happened in direct conflict to proper procedure the pastor discarded the recommendations of the per-nominating committee, and put his own 'choices' to be the nominating committee. They basically wiped out all the long time elders and church leaders as a lot the new leaders were those leading these spiritual formation 'groups' and they given positions in the church so they could be in the church board. Then with these people on the church board they ran roughshod over any opposition and many faithful board members and leaders were taken out of their positions. So they just weeded out the faithful members, and by slowly stuffing the church board with 'people unfit for the position' as one of the old elders told me, they were able to make it stick. Slowly it dawned on the members what had happened but it was too late they voted themselves in and then again for another year with no changes and basically forced 'spiritual formation' onto our church. The faithful members went to other churches and our little group sadly formed as it was our brand new church being taken over that we had worked so hard to build and gather every penny to make it happen, and now we were being forced out. You may say it was just a isolated case, but whole conferences and their churches are being affected. Be ready as you may be seeing this at your church sooner than you think........

[Reddogs]

My wife went on vacation and went to the churches her father had pastored in and those nearby and they had all been affected, and she was told that the conference there had been been split by those pushing some of these things and those resisting, and she was shocked and saddened by the extent it had spread.

We now understand much more clearly what the President of the GC was saying:

'After cautioning against adopting unscriptural fads in end-time ministry, Wilson mentioned some specifics: "We must be vigilant to test all things according to the supreme authority of God's Word and the council with which we have been blessed in the writings of Ellen G. White. Don't reach out to movements or megachurch centers outside the Seventh-day Adventist Church which promise you spiritual success based on faulty theology. Stay away from non-biblical spiritual disciplines or methods of spiritual formation that are rooted in mysticism such as contemplative prayer, centering prayer, and the emerging church movement in which they are promoted."

Instead, he said, believers should "look within the Seventh-day Adventist Church, to humble pastors, evangelists, Biblical scholars, leaders, and departmental directors who can provide evangelistic methods and programs that are based on solid Biblical principles and The Great Controversy theme."

Believers were also cautioned to use discernment in worship styles: "Use Christ-centered, Bible-based worship and music practices in church services," Wilson said. "While we understand that worship services and cultures vary throughout the world, don't go backwards into confusing pagan settings where music and worship become so focused on emotion and experience that you lose the central focus on the Word of God. All worship, however simple or complex should do one thing and one thing only: lift up Christ and put down self."

http://news.adventist.org/all-news/news/go/2010-07-03/wilson-calls-adventists-to-go-forward/

One of the driving force behind these megachurches and movements is Willow Creek. I came from a conservative Spanish church, moderate English church, and I went with most of my college friends to a 'Celebration' church we had started, so had seen all sides of the spectrum. But I noticed that my college friends were being taken by one of the pastors to Willow Creek so I started to look to see what it was. Adventist pastors and laymen and youth were being taken to this place which did not teach any of our doctrines or hold our Adventist beliefs and it wasnt just a few.

"Adventists, both pastors and laypeople, consistently make up one of the largest groups at Willow Creek's half-dozen annual seminars—including church leadership conferences in May and October and a leadership summit in August."—Adventist Review, Dec. 18, 1997.'

..from Adventist Today:

'In the last 15 years or so, New Spirituality (or "emerging church, "spiritual formation," etc.) by whatever name its followers choose, has flooded Protestantism, especially Evangelical churches. In the last 5-7 years, the waves have been rolling over many in the Adventist Church.

We all know well how, for the last 25 years, ministerial excitement and tons of Adventist money has focused on Willow Creek in Barrington, IL..

...from Spectrum:

'This is the Willow Creek Community Church in Chicago which is an evangelical association that runs workshops, conferences, and seminars and Adventists, both pastors and laypeople, consistently make up one of the largest groups at Willow Creek's seminars.'

So when I looked closer they were teaching what can only be called 'mystical' spiritual formation practices and techniques, clearly 'spirtualism' in my mind.

[M. T. Cross]

I would just like to examine some of the phrases you have used here......

Quote:

mys·ti·cal (mĭs′tĭ-kəl)

adj.

1. Of or having a spiritual reality or import not apparent to the intelligence or senses.

2. Of, relating to, or stemming from direct communion with ultimate reality or God: a mystical religion.

3. Enigmatic; obscure: mystical theories about the securities market.

4. Of or relating to mystic rites or practices.

5. Unintelligible; cryptic.

That pretty much sums up anything that relates to deity - period. Powerful, immortal being(s) that can create at will or whim, that can take many different forms......... pretty mystical. That goes for your biblical god as well. Yet it is used in such a negative term, when truly it is the very thing that draws humans to God(s)

Spiritual success: what is that even supposed to mean? Spiritual growth, spiritual living, those terms make sense, but its not a race, its not a career where there is a target position, its a relationship. Simply by immersing yourself in being spiritual is the success.

I still, and I have had this conversation many times, do not get the great fuss over this so called "spiritual formation". If you can use a technique to get closer to your god, to better understand his teachings, to grow in your relationship with him - where is the downside?

[CoAspen]

[Bravus]

The fact that an organisation is riven with schisms - women's ordination, origins, investigative judgement, spiritual formation, emerging church - is evidence that the organisation is full of cognitive dissonance.

My own view is that this arises because evidence and reason are deprecated.

Once that position is arrived at, all there is left are people's individual interpretations, driven by their individual obsessions.

If there is no ability to say 'this is what the evidence shows', then there is no way of deciding between views except politicking... which is what the SDA Church is reduced to.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

My question to everyone here is has anyone heard of this 'training with the leaders (Spiritual Bonding)'

the "spiritual bonding" phrase has been used in SDA circles for over 20 years.. I don't think it's anything *new*...

but it *is* a rather abstract term -- which is the same problem with "emerging church," "spiritual formation," etc. I think a lot of nonproductive debate happens and people cross-talk.... because there's not been a consensus of what the terms mean.

Kinda boils down to context and semantics...

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

If you can use a technique to get closer to your god, to better understand his teachings, to grow in your relationship with him - where is the downside?

Using a technique of some sort or another originating from mans' supposed superior intellect, that gives one an edge over the path chosen by another to find closeness to the Divine, removes the simplicity of the Creator's revelation for making it possible for the most simple of minds to grasp His hand, which keeps man's works from being the platform to gain salvation.

"..giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, "Colossians 1:12-13 NASB

"..being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;"

Romans 3:24 NASB

God cares! Jesus saves!

[CoAspen]

Quote:

Using a technique of some sort or another originating from mans' supposed superior intellect, that gives one an edge over the path chosen by another to find closeness to the Divine, removes the simplicity of the Creator's revelation for making it possible for the most simple of minds to grasp His hand, which keeps man's works from being the platform to gain salvation

Proof! You made a statement, now support it! No partial texts out of context, but in your own words.

A relationship does resolve many issues, and each person relation ship is a bit different. What works for one can and is often different for another. God meets each persons needs, individually.

Where are you finding 'works' in MT's post? Bringing in an issue not talked about is distracting....on purpose?

[M. T. Cross]

Using a technique of some sort or another originating from mans' supposed superior intellect, that gives one an edge over the path chosen by another to find closeness to the Divine, removes the simplicity of the Creator's revelation for making it possible for the most simple of minds to grasp His hand, which keeps man's works from being the platform to gain salvation.

Again, it is NOT a competition. Some people find one way to the Divine, others find a different way. Some only want a certain level of relationship, some can only handle a certain level, some can handle and want more.

No works involved LHC, simply different approaches. Its like prayer. One person may always kneel when they pray, others don't. Some pray the same prayer daily, others may just talk to their Gods. Approaches are different, and if one finds a way that gets them results then they should use it, should be able to use it without fear.

But if you are so very against using anything that a human came up with, be sure to throw out your church manual, your EGW books, while you are at it - your Bible, and just go to God.

[Reddogs]

I would just like to examine some of the phrases you have used here......

Quote:

mys·ti·cal (mĭs′tĭ-kəl)

adj.

1. Of or having a spiritual reality or import not apparent to the intelligence or senses.

2. Of, relating to, or stemming from direct communion with ultimate reality or God: a mystical religion.

3. Enigmatic; obscure: mystical theories about the securities market.

4. Of or relating to mystic rites or practices.

5. Unintelligible; cryptic.

That pretty much sums up anything that relates to deity - period. Powerful, immortal being(s) that can create at will or whim, that can take many different forms......... pretty mystical. That goes for your biblical god as well. Yet it is used in such a negative term, when truly it is the very thing that draws humans to God(s)

Spiritual success: what is that even supposed to mean? Spiritual growth, spiritual living, those terms make sense, but its not a race, its not a career where there is a target position, its a relationship. Simply by immersing yourself in being spiritual is the success.

I still, and I have had this conversation many times, do not get the great fuss over this so called "spiritual formation". If you can use a technique to get closer to your god, to better understand his teachings, to grow in your relationship with him - where is the downside?

It is not God they are drawing to, it is to another which you can find if you dig into the mysticism of the mystics in Egypt of the third and fourth centuries, and from Ignatius Loyola's Spiritual Exercises. When it comes into the churches the name has been changed to "spiritual development" or more subtle brought in piecemeal as "spiritual direction" or as we saw in our meeting with the conference, "spiritual bonding", but they are the same sophistries from in my opinion, seducing spirits.

They will come to your church and begin by offering spiritual formation classes in weekly small-group, home-based meetings where they will then introduce and study books by authors such as Jan Johnson, who holds a Doctor of Ministry degree in Ignatian spirituality and spiritual direction and other Catholic mystics. And if you challenge them they will say they there's nothing wrong with mysticism and meditation, or its not contrary to Adventism. But then they start moving against those who stand up to them and discarding the manual as happened to us and by any subterfuge or church board maneuvering take over the church.

Open your eyes, Ellen White told us that before Jesus Christ would return there would be an omega based upon the Alpha, (Kellogg's pantheistic deception), but the omega would be so much worse that she "trembled" when it was shown to her.

"Be not deceived; many will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. We have now before us the alpha of this danger. The omega will be of a most startling nature. (1 Selected Messages 197)... I knew that the omega would follow in a little while; and I trembled for our people. I knew that I must warn our brethren and sisters not to enter into controversy over the presence and personality of God. (203)

"The experience of the past will be repeated. In the future, Satan's superstitions will assume new forms. Errors will be presented in a pleasing and flattering manner. False theories, clothed with garments of light, will be presented to God's people. Thus Satan will try to deceive, if possible, the very elect. Most seducing influences will be exerted; minds will be hypnotized.

"Corruptions of every type, similar to those existing among the antediluvians, will be brought in to take minds captive. The exaltation of nature as God, the unrestrained license of the human will, the counsel of the ungodly-these Satan uses as agencies to bring about certain ends. He will employ the power of mind over mind to carry out his designs. The most sorrowful thought of all is that under his deceptive influence men will have a form of godliness, without having a real connection with God ...

"Satanic agencies are clothing false theories in an attractive garb, even as Satan in the Garden of Eden concealed his identity from our first parents by speaking through the serpent. These agencies are instilling into human minds that which in reality is deadly error. The hypnotic influence of Satan will rest upon those who turn from the plain word of God to pleasing fables.

"It is those who have had the most light that Satan most assiduously seeks to ensnare. He knows that if he can deceive them, they will, under his control, clothe sin with garments of righteousness, and lead many astray." 8 Testimonies 293-294

We have come to it, and most Adventist are ignoring the warning given in the SOP or are asleep at the switch....

[Reddogs]

The fact that an organisation is riven with schisms - women's ordination, origins, investigative judgement, spiritual formation, emerging church - is evidence that the organisation is full of cognitive dissonance.

My own view is that this arises because evidence and reason are deprecated.

Once that position is arrived at, all there is left are people's individual interpretations, driven by their individual obsessions.

If there is no ability to say 'this is what the evidence shows', then there is no way of deciding between views except politicking... which is what the SDA Church is reduced to.

Satan has done a good job in infiltration and sowing confusion, but this goes all the way to the conference levels and new pastors coming out of this 'Willow Creek' training. Be ready when they come is all I can say........

[Stan]

Notice

>>>> spiritual disciplines or methods of spiritual formation that are rooted in mysticism such as contemplative prayer, centering prayer,

Most people stop thinking at spiritual formation, and do not read read "that are rooted in mysticism such as contemplative prayer"

This particular forum is for original thoughts, not quotes, or copy and paste.

[Reddogs]

Originally Posted By: reddogs

My question to everyone here is has anyone heard of this 'training with the leaders (Spiritual Bonding)'

the "spiritual bonding" phrase has been used in SDA circles for over 20 years.. I don't think it's anything *new*...

but it *is* a rather abstract term -- which is the same problem with "emerging church," "spiritual formation," etc. I think a lot of nonproductive debate happens and people cross-talk.... because there's not been a consensus of what the terms mean.

Kinda boils down to context and semantics...

Well how is this for context, the church board that is sponsoring our little group made a list of the process, and it did not have 'Spirtual Bonding' on it. The pastor before the Conference got to our meeting told us it was not his idea nor his church board, but they had been 'specifically directed' to insert this into the list to be presented to us. I am not at liberty to say what he told us of his thoughts on this 'forced insertion', but I can say my impression was he and their church board 'distanced themselves' from it. It is being implemented at conference level, very troubling sign.......

[Reddogs]

Notice

>>>> spiritual disciplines or methods of spiritual formation that are rooted in mysticism such as contemplative prayer, centering prayer,

Most people stop thinking at spiritual formation, and do not read read "that are rooted in mysticism such as contemplative prayer"

This particular forum is for original thoughts, not quotes, or copy and paste.

Well we have seen the books they are pushing and let me give you a original thought, 'It has no basis in Adventism', and I have a few more which I cannot express in good company........

[M. T. Cross]

They will come to your church and begin by offering spiritual formation classes in weekly small-group, home-based meetings where they will then introduce and study books by authors such as Jan Johnson, who holds a Doctor of Ministry degree in Ignatian spirituality and spiritual direction and other Catholic mystics. And if you challenge them they will say they there's nothing wrong with mysticism and meditation, or its not contrary to Adventism. But then they start moving against those who stand up to them and discarding the manual as happened to us and by any subterfuge or church board maneuvering take over the church.

Open your eyes, Ellen White told us that before Jesus Christ would return there would be an omega based upon the Alpha, (Kellogg's pantheistic deception), but the omega would be so much worse that she "trembled" when it was shown to her.

"Be not deceived; many will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. We have now before us the alpha of this danger. The omega will be of a most startling nature. (1 Selected Messages 197)... I knew that the omega would follow in a little while; and I trembled for our people. I knew that I must warn our brethren and sisters not to enter into controversy over the presence and personality of God. (203)

"The experience of the past will be repeated. In the future, Satan's superstitions will assume new forms. Errors will be presented in a pleasing and flattering manner. False theories, clothed with garments of light, will be presented to God's people. Thus Satan will try to deceive, if possible, the very elect. Most seducing influences will be exerted; minds will be hypnotized.

"Corruptions of every type, similar to those existing among the antediluvians, will be brought in to take minds captive. The exaltation of nature as God, the unrestrained license of the human will, the counsel of the ungodly-these Satan uses as agencies to bring about certain ends. He will employ the power of mind over mind to carry out his designs. The most sorrowful thought of all is that under his deceptive influence men will have a form of godliness, without having a real connection with God ...

"Satanic agencies are clothing false theories in an attractive garb, even as Satan in the Garden of Eden concealed his identity from our first parents by speaking through the serpent. These agencies are instilling into human minds that which in reality is deadly error. The hypnotic influence of Satan will rest upon those who turn from the plain word of God to pleasing fables.

"It is those who have had the most light that Satan most assiduously seeks to ensnare. He knows that if he can deceive them, they will, under his control, clothe sin with garments of righteousness, and lead many astray." 8 Testimonies 293-294

We have come to it, and most Adventist are ignoring the warning given in the SOP or are asleep at the switch....

I'm really not to worried about "them" coming to my church......

[CoAspen]

I'm not sure who 'them' is but if you were closer I might take a 'peek' just to see what you are all about!

[Reddogs]

Originally Posted By: Reddogs

They will come to your church and begin by offering spiritual formation classes in weekly small-group, home-based meetings where they will then introduce and study books by authors such as Jan Johnson, who holds a Doctor of Ministry degree in Ignatian spirituality and spiritual direction and other Catholic mystics. And if you challenge them they will say they there's nothing wrong with mysticism and meditation, or its not contrary to Adventism. But then they start moving against those who stand up to them and discarding the manual as happened to us and by any subterfuge or church board maneuvering take over the church.

Open your eyes, Ellen White told us that before Jesus Christ would return there would be an omega based upon the Alpha, (Kellogg's pantheistic deception), but the omega would be so much worse that she "trembled" when it was shown to her.

"Be not deceived; many will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. We have now before us the alpha of this danger. The omega will be of a most startling nature. (1 Selected Messages 197)... I knew that the omega would follow in a little while; and I trembled for our people. I knew that I must warn our brethren and sisters not to enter into controversy over the presence and personality of God. (203)

"The experience of the past will be repeated. In the future, Satan's superstitions will assume new forms. Errors will be presented in a pleasing and flattering manner. False theories, clothed with garments of light, will be presented to God's people. Thus Satan will try to deceive, if possible, the very elect. Most seducing influences will be exerted; minds will be hypnotized.

"Corruptions of every type, similar to those existing among the antediluvians, will be brought in to take minds captive. The exaltation of nature as God, the unrestrained license of the human will, the counsel of the ungodly-these Satan uses as agencies to bring about certain ends. He will employ the power of mind over mind to carry out his designs. The most sorrowful thought of all is that under his deceptive influence men will have a form of godliness, without having a real connection with God ...

"Satanic agencies are clothing false theories in an attractive garb, even as Satan in the Garden of Eden concealed his identity from our first parents by speaking through the serpent. These agencies are instilling into human minds that which in reality is deadly error. The hypnotic influence of Satan will rest upon those who turn from the plain word of God to pleasing fables.

"It is those who have had the most light that Satan most assiduously seeks to ensnare. He knows that if he can deceive them, they will, under his control, clothe sin with garments of righteousness, and lead many astray." 8 Testimonies 293-294

We have come to it, and most Adventist are ignoring the warning given in the SOP or are asleep at the switch....

I'm really not to worried about "them" coming to my church......

Neither was I, until I saw the church or its manual or beliefs meant nothing to "them" and saw what was behind it. We carefully vetted the new Pastor and he told us everything the church board wanted to hear, was committed to Adventist principals, and SOP and never would 'drums' and other strange 'music' be allowed, etc.. we were I can only say, trusting. After all I knew the Conference man to way back, who brought the Pastor before us at the church board, they would never purposely mislead, well it happened and I went to 'my friend' the Conference man and lets just say I never imagined the answer I got.

Its the wheat and the tares in the church and I know we will always have the tares, but now the new Pastors and the Conference have joined and are the ones directing what can only be called apostasy, and we even found out a lot of the new leaders who are ADVENTIST were going to a Sunday church before they came and took over and as far as we know continue to go and now they have rented out our church to other Non-Adventist churches so they can make money. After all the bake sales, car washes, and hard work we did to raise funds to build it and now we cant even be in our own church we built. Sad...

[CoAspen]

Sad....yes, that all you can do is criticize because others don't agree with your 'version' of 'truth'. Have you ever considered that 'tares' may include those that are just fault finders?

[M. T. Cross]

Neither was I, until I saw the church or its manual or beliefs meant nothing to "them" and saw what was behind it. We carefully vetted the new Pastor and he told us everything the church board wanted to hear, was committed to Adventist principals, and SOP and never would 'drums' and other strange 'music' be allowed, etc.. we were I can only say, trusting. After all I knew the Conference man to way back, who brought the Pastor before us at the church board, they would never purposely mislead, well it happened and I went to 'my friend' the Conference man and lets just say I never imagined the answer I got.

Its the wheat and the tares in the church and I know we will always have the tares, but now the new Pastors and the Conference have joined and are the ones directing what can only be called apostasy, and we even found out a lot of the new leaders who are ADVENTIST were going to a Sunday church before they came and took over and as far as we know continue to go and now they have rented out our church to other Non-Adventist churches so they can make money. After all the bake sales, car washes, and hard work we did to raise funds to build it and now we cant even be in our own church we built. Sad...

How do you really determine the tares though?

Does the Bible anywhere specifically forbid meditation and contemplative prayer?

Does the Bible anywhere specifically forbid drums and other types of music?

Did the early church, and I mean at the time of Christ and after his death, have a hymn book with praise songs?

Jesus went into the desert wilderness and fasted for 40 days. Was he not out there depriving his body of food, and getting in a "spiritual" frame of mind? How does this differ really from this so called spiritual formation?

Why would you deny others a place of worship by forbidding them to rent your church for their Sunday service? They may have a somewhat different theology than you, but they are still just as likely to be God fearing, gospel searching Christians just like you. Just the fact that they are going to an SDA church for their Sunday worship may inspire them to look and why you worship on the day that you do.

And really, trust me when I tell you that I have ZERO fear of these people coming into my place of worship to try and push anything on our group.

[M. T. Cross]

Sad....yes, that all you can do is criticize because others don't agree with your 'version' of 'truth'. Have you ever considered that 'tares' may include those that are just fault finders?

This! Totally this.

It is the problem with ever thinking you have THE TRUTH.

[LifeHiscost]

Notice

>>>> spiritual disciplines or methods of spiritual formation that are rooted in mysticism such as contemplative prayer, centering prayer,

Most people stop thinking at spiritual formation, and do not read read "that are rooted in mysticism such as contemplative prayer"

This particular forum is for original thoughts, not quotes, or copy and paste.

I'm hoping I'm not one of your biggest troublemakers, Stan, since that is the way I communicate most of the time. I'll probably stop using that method, since others also have a problem with that method.

God blesses! Time for Jesus to come!

[Reddogs]

Originally Posted By: Reddogs

Neither was I, until I saw the church or its manual or beliefs meant nothing to "them" and saw what was behind it. We carefully vetted the new Pastor and he told us everything the church board wanted to hear, was committed to Adventist principals, and SOP and never would 'drums' and other strange 'music' be allowed, etc.. we were I can only say, trusting. After all I knew the Conference man to way back, who brought the Pastor before us at the church board, they would never purposely mislead, well it happened and I went to 'my friend' the Conference man and lets just say I never imagined the answer I got.

Its the wheat and the tares in the church and I know we will always have the tares, but now the new Pastors and the Conference have joined and are the ones directing what can only be called apostasy, and we even found out a lot of the new leaders who are ADVENTIST were going to a Sunday church before they came and took over and as far as we know continue to go and now they have rented out our church to other Non-Adventist churches so they can make money. After all the bake sales, car washes, and hard work we did to raise funds to build it and now we cant even be in our own church we built. Sad...

How do you really determine the tares though?

Does the Bible anywhere specifically forbid meditation and contemplative prayer?

Does the Bible anywhere specifically forbid drums and other types of music?

Did the early church, and I mean at the time of Christ and after his death, have a hymn book with praise songs?

Jesus went into the desert wilderness and fasted for 40 days. Was he not out there depriving his body of food, and getting in a "spiritual" frame of mind? How does this differ really from this so called spiritual formation?

Why would you deny others a place of worship by forbidding them to rent your church for their Sunday service? They may have a somewhat different theology than you, but they are still just as likely to be God fearing, gospel searching Christians just like you. Just the fact that they are going to an SDA church for their Sunday worship may inspire them to look and why you worship on the day that you do.

And really, trust me when I tell you that I have ZERO fear of these people coming into my place of worship to try and push anything on our group.

Have you ever heard the words desecrate, making it a 'den of thieves' or offering 'strange fire', God cares about what goes on in His temple.

Now while some may try to say there are good points or uses for the spiritual formation message and point to its meditation or other parts of it, it really comes from ancient heathen religions and pagan mystics. The contemplative/centering prayer, or breath prayers, where the participants are taught to listen to their breathing and to empty their minds through the repetition of a word or phrase brings into mind more of ancient eastern religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism than Christianity.

It is the same technique used by ancient pagans, New Age proponents, and spiritualistic mediums when they go into séances. The person goes into an altered state of consciousness through self ­hypnosis, the mind is opened to spiritual impressions and messages, and Satan can come in and take control of the mind. I don't think that has any business in our churches much less being forced on members by the Pastors and Conference leaders.

[Reddogs]

Originally Posted By: Reddogs

Neither was I, until I saw the church or its manual or beliefs meant nothing to "them" and saw what was behind it. We carefully vetted the new Pastor and he told us everything the church board wanted to hear, was committed to Adventist principals, and SOP and never would 'drums' and other strange 'music' be allowed, etc.. we were I can only say, trusting. After all I knew the Conference man to way back, who brought the Pastor before us at the church board, they would never purposely mislead, well it happened and I went to 'my friend' the Conference man and lets just say I never imagined the answer I got.

Its the wheat and the tares in the church and I know we will always have the tares, but now the new Pastors and the Conference have joined and are the ones directing what can only be called apostasy, and we even found out a lot of the new leaders who are ADVENTIST were going to a Sunday church before they came and took over and as far as we know continue to go and now they have rented out our church to other Non-Adventist churches so they can make money. After all the bake sales, car washes, and hard work we did to raise funds to build it and now we cant even be in our own church we built. Sad...

How do you really determine the tares though?

Does the Bible anywhere specifically forbid meditation and contemplative prayer?

Does the Bible anywhere specifically forbid drums and other types of music?

Did the early church, and I mean at the time of Christ and after his death, have a hymn book with praise songs?

Jesus went into the desert wilderness and fasted for 40 days. Was he not out there depriving his body of food, and getting in a "spiritual" frame of mind? How does this differ really from this so called spiritual formation?

Why would you deny others a place of worship by forbidding them to rent your church for their Sunday service? They may have a somewhat different theology than you, but they are still just as likely to be God fearing, gospel searching Christians just like you. Just the fact that they are going to an SDA church for their Sunday worship may inspire them to look and why you worship on the day that you do.

And really, trust me when I tell you that I have ZERO fear of these people coming into my place of worship to try and push anything on our group.

I will explain it to you this way, we had the Book and Bible mobile come one Saturday night, and the new leaders decide to present their ideas of how to 'evangelize' and advertised it and put up a stage and brought their 'band' and 'Rocked the Casbah'. Needless to say few people from nearby who came were 'converted' by this method and the members who came for the bookmobile were put off and members from other churches commented negatively on what was happening.

This is not what God's people should be using and there was nothing spiritual in how and what they put up, but who knows, maybe they are the 'wheat' in how good they rock and can blast out the decibels, and Willow Creek is spreading the new manna from above, what do you think.