the missing are not missed...

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

This might sound harsh, but I don't think visiting someone only because of "concern for his/her soul" is a good reason. Unless one is a REALLY good actor, people can generally see right through that veneer and know that the true motive doesn't lie in friendship or concern for him/her as a person, but rather as a "soul" to be saved.

Interesting comment. Jesus said follow Me and I will make you fishers of men. Then we stifle them by putting "This is the only way it should be done." By whose authority? Where does it become authoritative that one must be a friend before offering a place it is known Jesus has promised to frequent? And how does one love their enemy except the enemy is offered something more than what they already despise, which could possibly be my friendship?

Just askin'.

Jesus/God cares!

[Naomi]

but make sure the visit is out of friendship, and for no other reason... that was one of the points in that article.

Having been on both sides of this issue what I find most interesting is that a member can be a part of the congregation and yet have no close friends with whom to share, study, care, socialize outside of the church, and pray together. Certainly they would not be missed if no one was well acquainted with them to keep that door open.

Just thinking ... where was the connection lost?

Can you still remain friends even if the person leaves the church? Can you do it without crucifying them for leaving the church?

We cannot save anyone ... only God can do that

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

This might sound harsh, but I don't think visiting someone only because of "concern for his/her soul" is a good reason. Unless one is a REALLY good actor, people can generally see right through that veneer and know that the true motive doesn't lie in friendship or concern for him/her as a person, but rather as a "soul" to be saved.

Interesting comment. Jesus said follow Me and I will make you fishers of men. Then we stifle them by putting "This is the only way it should be done." By whose authority? Where does it become authoritative that one must be a friend before offering a place it is known Jesus has promised to frequent? And how does one love their enemy except the enemy is offered something more than what they already despise, which could possibly be my friendship?

Just askin'.

If someone felt he/she was someone's enemy, it hardly befits to extend an offering/invitation to someone to visit the enemy's camp.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

but make sure the visit is out of friendship, and for no other reason... that was one of the points in that article.

Having been on both sides of this issue what I find most interesting is that a member can be a part of the congregation and yet have no close friends with whom to share, study, care, socialize outside of the church, and pray together. Certainly they would not be missed if no one was well acquainted with them to keep that door open.

Just thinking ... where was the connection lost?

Can you still remain friends even if the person leaves the church? Can you do it without crucifying them for leaving the church?

We cannot save anyone ... only God can do that

I don't think one needs to be *close* friends with someone to notice that person is not at church. In fact, if we as church members are only aware of our personal circles of friends, then that's not such a good thing. Unfortunately, that's a far-from-rare occurrence. Sometimes churches resemble more to grade school cliques than promoting a warm, welcoming atmosphere.

Reminds me about the theoretical "buddy bench/pew" idea for churches...

[M. T. Cross]

Interesting comment. Jesus said follow Me and I will make you fishers of men. Then we stifle them by putting "This is the only way it should be done." By whose authority? Where does it become authoritative that one must be a friend before offering a place it is known Jesus has promised to frequent? And how does one love their enemy except the enemy is offered something more than what they already despise, which could possibly be my friendship?

Just askin'.

Jesus/God cares!

I think people are more likely to listen to what you have to say if they consider you a friend, if they know that you care about their everyday life rather than just "saving their soul".

That very likely for a number of people is a part of what drives them away in the first place, the fact that their fellow members really could give a hoot about their interests, hobbies, life issues, and only care about getting to heaven. That makes a person look around and think, " Do I really want to spend an eternity with people that never really cared about me as a person?"

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

I think people are more likely to listen to what you have to say if they consider you a friend, if they know that you care about their everyday life rather than just "saving their soul".

There's no doubt as to the truth of your statement, at least in my opinion. However Jesus asks me to love my enemies, even my next door neighbor who drinks like a fish, smokes like a lit pile of wet leaves, and would be more than happy to forcefully bed my wife when I'm not there to make sure it couldn't happen.

Today I saw a news story

(Yahoo news http://news.yahoo.com/neighbors-unable-stop-missouri-girl-39-abduction-060237827.html ) of a man who abducted a beautiful little ten year old girl, and the neighbors were unable to stop the abduction and the child was not found by police until after she had been murdered and butchered.

I've been in prison ministry but I cannot see myself capable of being friends with that person, though I would feel compelled to hold open the door to his salvation by introducing him to Jesus Christ, Who will offer him repentance after his confession. How about you?

God cares! Jesus saves!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

while it's an important topic, prison ministry is not what this topic is about..

[LifeHiscost]

while it's an important topic, prison ministry is not what this topic is about..

[M. T. Cross]

I've been in prison ministry but I cannot see myself capable of being friends with that person, though I would feel compelled to hold open the door to his salvation by introducing him to Jesus Christ, Who will offer him repentance after his confession. How about you?

God cares! Jesus saves!

Is this a trick question? Being that I don't feel compelled to bring anyone to a religion I am not a part of for a salvation I don't think they need......

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

while it's an important topic, prison ministry is not what this topic is about..

What if the missing member just got tossed into the slammer? Is that a good reason for not visiting them? While it may be believed that is off topic, I happen to be personally acquainted with an individual who was in that position and the body of believers had a definite prompting by the Holy Spirit to visit him while he was there. The charge was not smoking or other smaller infractions but complicity to commit murder, of which he was in jail for close to two years before being let out, and all during those two years he was visited by numerous brothers and sister in the faith, both during visiting hours during the week and a much larger number on the Sabbath.

Does that satisfy your criteria for inclusion of this post on the topic of "the missing being missed"? Especially as it relates to this comment?

Quote:

But we are too busy to halt, too preoccupied with the work of God to really miss the missing. Is it possible that we may grow indifferent to the missing, and eventually forget them?

If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony.

fine, LHC. Take the topic. Take it wherever you want it. You seem to want to barge in wherever I've posted something, and turn it into some sort of personal confrontation. It seems to be your modus operandi. It's rude and boorish, and I'm tired of it. Happy now?

[onebeecee]

WOW some interesting answers and questions.

I too left the church in my late teens and began "living in sin" lol we lived two doors down from the SDA church. Not one person came to visit us, not one. We were both born into the church. And I doubt either of us stopped believing in God.

Are you guys afraid of rejection? Just plain rejection? Because, if you had called me up and just let me know God still loved me. My whole life may have been different. No matter what answer you got from me, I would have known someone cared.

The few times I did bring my children, they were even blessed during a service, but the stigma of being the outcast stuck. And no attempts at friendship were ever made.

I'll have to admit, my heart has been pretty hardened towards the church, and through an event that happened I started looking at the church again. Although some things have changed obviously, I wonder if the acceptance level has?

I wonder how I would be treated if I tried again? How would I find it? Still very conservative and judgmental? Or open and forgiving?

God and I have been getting reacquainted. And sometimes it's hard to open that bible, talk to him, and learn to love him again, like I did as a child. You see, I believe I am highly sensitive to being a spiritual person. Even at a young age I understood things, that maybe most adults did not. But understood them through the eyes of a child. I use to have nightmares of the end of time, and not making it to heaven, because of how it was presented in the sermon. We had one of those pasters that had a heart of gold, but yelled and screamed from the pulpit, of the hell fires and being lost.

So it's hard given all of this to walk into a church again. I want to hope it has changed. I guess I'm more fearful that it hasn't.

Good discussion though, stop being afraid of rejection, and state up front how God loves those that have strayed and rejoices more on their return. You may not get the positive answer you want, but your words will stay with them, if they are given in genuine regard for that person, not just his or her soul, but just regard for that person.

You know I've come to believe that God loves us more, the ones who never were contacted, yup we have the muck of the world on us, and things we may need to change, but that I believe, is between me and God. I believe God is a big big God,so big we can't comprehend him, and he knows our hearts. And as we get to know him again, maybe I'll start seeing changes in my heart and life, I don't know... But stop with the hellfire and damnation, and talk about the love he has for us. If we left the church we know all about that already. What we want to know is there a space for us, and is there love for us, that we can find within that church.

[phkrause]

[debbym]

and then their are those who leave who are wept for and pleaded with.

and those in the household who will not come to church who are wept for and pleaded with.

[Gail]

The good news is that the church HAS changed from where it was 2 or 3 decades ago. At least I believe it has

Thank you, LRSC, for finding us here. I hope that this place will help you follow through with where your heart has been leading.

[Tallmark]

300,000 people leave the church each year. Other denominations are suffering the same thing. I wish they would attend somewhere.

[Roxy]

I don't think anything has changed at all....I think tho that GOD is reaching those of us that the church isn't trying for anymore. amazingly enough I love GOD so much more now than when I was killing myself doing all the RIGHT things so I appeared righteous and a 'good little SDA woman'.

[Gail]

Amen! When you think about it, it really is God that is doing the reaching. It has to be... Otherwise all that preaching and ministry would be is a grand sales pitch.

[onebeecee]

I tried it and it hasn't changed! Nothing! Maybe the pastor didn't scream the hell and damnation. But just for once I'd like to go to an SDA church and hear about God's love, not who is going to be lost and how awful the last days are going to be. Nope it hasn't changed in 30+ yrs (with a couple of times in between), but with the same message every time I have gone. In fact one Easter, I went hoping to hear about how Christ died for me, but got the hell and damnation sermon, yet again. Belong to us or you'll be damned. And for those of who are going to say maybe this is the message I "should" hear, no it isn't, I have heard this since I was a kid. What will save me is God's love and mine for him, the relationship I have with him...

I kinda am liking my own kind of spirituality. And until I'm really convinced, and I read something in the Bible that will change the way I think, or shown a different way, I don't believe that I'll be lost. Besides not one of you (church members) have really made the effort either. So, oh well.

[Gail]

Wow, I don't know what's up with some areas... You should come and visit up here one day

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I have yet to hear a "hellfire and damnation" sermon from an SDA minister, or a sermon on "belong to us or you'll be damned".... the closest approximation, and it's a far stretch, would be a few evangelistic meetings.. (this reminds me of the "sermon scene" from the Pollyanna movie where the lights were shaking from the thunderous voice of the preacher)

I find most sermons (at least 75%) rather boring... my eyes glaze over, and then I start noticing the cobwebs in the corners, the neck mole on the man sitting in front of me, and the person snoring behind me. Then I'll amuse myself by diagraming those complex sentences from the sermon.

If someone feels the sermons and church are all about hellfire and damnation, and stops attending, I'm not sure a visit from a church member, no matter how friendly, is going to cut the mustard in convincing someone to come back.

[JoeMo]

If you want to hear about God's love, mercy, and forgiveness, come to our church in Denver. It's all about acceptance and community.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

But just for once I'd like to go to an SDA church and hear about God's love,. . .

I have to say that you have raised a valid point. However, things are changing. In many SDA congregations you would hear about the love of God.

The congregation I attend live-streams its service every Sabbath.

1) Last week we had a visitor (SDA) from Switzerland who has been watching our services on the Internet and attended because of that. She stated that she will return and attend again before going home.

2) We have a new pastor who took over in January. He has published his sermon schedule for the entire year--2014. When guest speakers preach, they are required to preach on the text that he has listed for that Sabbath. Every Sabbath is centered on a specific incident in the life of Christ. This series began prior to Christ's birth (e.g. shepherds in the field) and is going step by step through His life.

3) This pastor travels internationally proclaiming the love and centrality of Christ in seminars that he gives.

[Naomi]

If you want to hear about God's love, mercy, and forgiveness, come to our church in Denver. It's all about acceptance and community.

And, if Denver is not in your neck of the woods, come to West Virginia ... almost any SDA church here will do.

[born_again1]

No, I don' think that the missing are missed. We left about 10 ears ago for purely doctrinal reasons. No one knew why we left...we just stopped attending and moved on. But, not one person has ever called or talked to us at all. It's ok, I don't have any hard feelings. It seems to be the rule of thumb for the most part.

I had another friend who left for doctrinal reasons. The pastor did come to see her, but he actually lied to some of the members and told them that she didn't want to talk to anyone, so don't visit. That wasn't true at all, she had no issue with talking with anyone about her decision.

So, anyway...my two cents.

[Aliensanctuary]

The JW's tend to visit anyone who will talk or open their door, mine included. My wife occasionally talks to them about Bible topics. Perhaps SDA's, if they want someone to join their club, should offer something, like a small loaf of bread, an interesting book or video, a community Bible study not held at any church, or conduct a mini survey to determine people's spiritual interests or beliefs or feelings towards organized religion.

This website was responsible for my renewed interest in spiritual things. Here I can express my opinions, usually after careful deliberation, unlike in every SDA Sabbath School I've attended where my ideas no longer coincide with SDA doctrines. I no longer attend church for several reasons, but one is that I do not care to watch dvd sermons. Haven’t seen a pastor for several years except for my father-in-laws memorial service a few weeks ago.