Second Coming Question

[WisdomWarlord]

Before I get started, please understand that this question isn't meant to attack anyones belief, only to help me understand better. I'm a rather blunt man, and don't know much about how to soften my questions, but my bluntness is not meant to offend, even when it does.

On to my question. Does the SDA church still think it is biblically OK to predict the time of the Second Coming? If yes, help me understand why.

Thanks

Keith HP

[CoAspen]

Individuals may, but the .org does not, at least in my lifetime of knowledge. Christ in the NT says only God knows.

[Stan]

Keith, I have never met an Adventist who did that. Some other groups have in the recent past.

Thanks for feeling comfortable enough to ask.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Does the SDA church still think it is biblically OK to predict the time of the Second Coming?

Bold mine LHC

It has only been recently that I've ever heard any SDA define even the generation that will be alive when Jesus returns. For all practical purposes, when the physical body dies, for that person that is when He comes. OTOH we can know which generation will be alive when He arrives the second time.

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."Ecclesiastes 9:5 KJV

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come

So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."Matt 24:14,33,34 KJV

By reading Matt 24 all of the things that will be happening or that have already happened are revealed.

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Woody]

Quote:

Does the SDA church still think it is biblically OK to predict the time of the Second Coming?

Bold mine LHC

It has only been recently that I've ever heard any SDA define even the generation that will be alive when Jesus returns. For all practical purposes, when the physical body dies, for that person that is when He comes. OTOH we can know which generation will be alive when He arrives the second time.

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."Ecclesiastes 9:5 KJV

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come

So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."Matt 24:14,33,34 KJV

By reading Matt 24 all of the things that will be happening or that have already happened are revealed.

God cares! Jesus saves!

Yes. And we've been in that 'generation' since Jesus died and predicted his soon coming.

[Geoarrge]

Yes. And we've been in that 'generation' since Jesus died and predicted his soon coming.

It seems like LHC is suggesting an interpretation that "this generation" is meant to be understood as the generation alive at the time the Gospel is preached in the entire world.

[Aliensanctuary]

Seems like we should expect Christ's return only after the events he foretold in Matt 24 take place, that is, worldwide persecution, devastating earthquakes, deadly famines, and the contagion of war as a prerequisite. Only the misguided and ignorant would come up with some specific date for Christ's arrival to rescue his chosen ones.

Plenty of blowhards have been preaching for centuries that they/we have been/are living in the last days, but we obviously aren't there, yet, demonstrated by the fact that these blowhards have been allowed to preach over public airwaves. Trying to live as a Christian in an Islamic country, now that would be the persecution one could expect during the Last Days, when the churches and Bibles are burned and the Christians are tortured and executed.

[WisdomWarlord]

I base my question on the 1844 prediction that obviously was off. I won't go into detail here about my colorful spiritual and religious history but suffice it to say that I've been fed enough bs to feed a nation of fools, so I rarely take anyone at their word. I'm a Berean, and live by Reagans diplomatic policy, "Trust but verify".

I've searched for evidence of the SDA still practicing second coming predictions and can't find any in my lifetime, so I figured it's time to ask directly.

I have enough questions and skewed knowledge already, and don't need more.

I can deal with individuals who try feeding me bs pretty handily, but there are some things that the church body as a whole must get right before I consider connecting with them.

I'm looking for a church body I can call home, as most make me laugh. None of us are perfect and we're all flawed, but some of the things modern churches preach are tragically laughable.

I've gone to an SDA church and had several friends there, which is why I'm considering it. That, and lack of other viable option :-)

Thank you for responding to me.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Trying to live as a Christian in an Islamic country, now that would be the persecution one could expect during the Last Days, when the churches and Bibles are burned and the Christians are tortured and executed.

There are places in which what you have described is actually happening as you and I sit safely in the comfort of our home. However it doesn't say every person on the earth will experience the same thing except for this biblical note.

"Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution."2 Timothy 3:12 NKJV

It is important to remember that many will escape certain ravages of the prince of darkness as a direct result of God's intervention for those who gladly choose to put their fortunes in the hands of the only Creator God Who was resurrected from the dead.

Also it is not just one or two circumstances of the last days that make it clear what time we're living in, but every field of endeavor of which man chooses to become involved in, be it political, theological, spiritual, physical or scientific.

We have these two promises if we are so inclined, that gives us the assurance we can have peace for the present and the future, be His coming ever so far or so near.

"Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”"John 8:12 NKJV

"You will not be afraid of the terror by night,

Or of the arrow that flies by day;

Of the pestilence that stalks in darkness,

Or of the destruction that lays waste at noon.

A thousand may fall at your side

And ten thousand at your right hand,

But it shall not approach you.

You will only look on with your eyes And

see the recompense of the wicked."Psalm 91:5-8 NASB

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Aliensanctuary]

The SDA Church was founded by "date setters" who, I hope, were extremely embarrassed and humbled when their dates came and went. Of course, there was the rescue theory that the sanctuary being cleansed was in "heaven" rather than on Earth.

While some believe that EGW is next to infallible and got everything right, I wouldn't bet the farm on that. We might understand scripture much better if we put the red books back in the bookcase and dusted off the Good Book and read it cover to cover, more than once or twice. That would protect us from getting spammed by pulpit baloney. Anyone interested in religion must realize that they're all man-made, designed, in part, to get your money in order for the organizations to perpetuate themselves. The SDA organization is no exception.

In the end, it's not so much the doctrines that attract new members, but the friendliness and the liveliness of a church that makes one think he might want to join. Humans are so prone to error that we are all probably misunderstanding the Kingdom, but it will all be made clear to us in the future so we can make an informed choice on whether or not to join the real Kingdom of Light.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Anyone interested in religion must realize that they're all man-made, designed, in part, to get your money in order for the organizations to perpetuate themselves. The SDA organization is no exception.

"Therefore, come out from among unbelievers, and separate yourselves from them, says the Lord. Don’t touch their filthy things, and I will welcome you."2 Cor 6:17 NLT

"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd."John 10:16 NKJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[WisdomWarlord]

The SDA Church was founded by "date setters" who, I hope, were extremely embarrassed and humbled when their dates came and went. Of course, there was the rescue theory that the sanctuary being cleansed was in "heaven" rather than on Earth.

While some believe that EGW is next to infallible and got everything right, I wouldn't bet the farm on that. We might understand scripture much better if we put the red books back in the bookcase and dusted off the Good Book and read it cover to cover, more than once or twice. That would protect us from getting spammed by pulpit baloney. Anyone interested in religion must realize that they're all man-made, designed, in part, to get your money in order for the organizations to perpetuate themselves. The SDA organization is no exception.

In the end, it's not so much the doctrines that attract new members, but the friendliness and the liveliness of a church that makes one think he might want to join. Humans are so prone to error that we are all probably misunderstanding the Kingdom, but it will all be made clear to us in the future so we can make an informed choice on whether or not to join the real Kingdom of Light.

I couldn't agree more.

It's been 4 years of wrestling with God and learning how to keep my sword sheathed (figuratively, think of Peter and the Centurion's ear), in the face of Christian who haven't taken the time to work out their own salvation before they try telling me where I'm wrong.

It's time to reconnect. I'll be looking up the local SDA church and get that ball rolling.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

It's time to reconnect. I'll be looking up the local SDA church and get that ball rolling.

Congratulations! So glad to hear that. Hope you recognize we all still have our (major or minor)own characteristics we're struggling with, that have very little to do with the righteousness of Jesus Christ or your own choices to accept His desire to welcome you to the home already prepared by Him.

"“Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also."John 14:1-3 NASB

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Aliensanctuary]

Quote:

I'll be looking up the local SDA church and get that ball rolling.

Every church, I suppose, has its factions, usually the hardliners vs. the liberals, but if you can find a like-minded friend or two to get together with after church hours, that would be worth a lot.

Although the 10 C's and the other rules and laws in the Good Book are important in this life, they're really pointing out how life will be governed in the next life.

Baptism on Earth, for example, points to the wash-up in the River of Life in the Restored Kingdom of New Earth. It's at this point where our selfish human natures will be deleted genetically. Once our selfishness is removed we will then be safe to become permanant members of the Kingdom. Our sense of self, then will no longer be possible.

We will live as servants, or slaves, owning little or nothing, but willing to share what little we have with others. In return for our labor in growing/harvesting food, we will have a comfortable place to live, all the food and clothing we need, and, never get sick or die.

Sounds like a good deal for us, if we can get past the notion of life evolving from slime and just believe that our Masters will someday return for those who trust in them.

[E Wilson]

The Lord Jesus Christ says, "When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. And in the morning, It will be foul weather today: for the sky is red and lowring . . . O ye hypocrites, Ye can discern the face of the sky; but yet do ye not discern the signs of the times?" Matthew 16:1-3

I encourage all to read aloud the 24th chapter of Matthew and 17th and 21st chapters of Luke. Ask the LORD to open our eyes that we may know without any shadow of a doubt how very near we are to Christ Jesus' return in the clouds of heaven !

Please feel free to contact us if you have any questions, at Isaiah Ministries. And may the LORD God Almighty Bless and keep you strong in faith, and the power of His Life-giving Word !

your brother and sister in Christ,

Eric & Sarah Wilson and family - Isaiah Ministries

http://isaiahministries.wordpress.com/

[JoeMo]

Quote:

I encourage all to read aloud the 24th chapter of Matthew and 17th and 21st chapters of Luke. Ask the LORD to open our eyes that we may know without any shadow of a doubt how very near we are to Christ Jesus' return in the clouds of heaven !

I would agree with this. And I would also recommend reading what other denominations (as well as non-denominational groups) have to say about it. I became disillusioned with the SDA view several years ago and have researched several other interpretations (alternative scenarios is probably a better term) and come up with a few of my own, based on personal study. I won't get into detail cuz I don't want to start any unproductive debates. Suffice it to say that if we are sufficiently versed in scripture and have a sufficiently open mind, when the real end of time approaches, there will be no doubt as to what time it is. All I can say is I don't think it's now; but maybe soon.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

#691414,#691416

Appreciated very much both of these posts. Because of our individual journeys, all with a falling short of the Divine Glory, one of my greatest assurances is this promise, kept as the Holy Spirit is submitted to.

"But everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, for some on Mount Zion in Jerusalem will escape, just as the Lord has said. These will be among the survivors whom the Lord has called."Joel 2:32 NLT

"‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’"Acts 2:21 NASB

Then yoked with this promise from the testimony of the everlasting covenant.

"“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.Jeremiah 31:33 NASB

“This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws upon their heart, And on their mind I will write them,... Hebrews 10:16 NASB

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Paliah]

I would like to point out that the official Seventh-day Adventist church has NEVER believed in predicting the exact day of Christ's return. October 22, 1844 was NEVER predicted by the SDA church. While it is true that some of the people involved in this prediction later became some of our church's founding members, the group in 1843-44 consisted of people of all denominations across the country. The SDA church did not exist at that time. Our church was organized in 1863. While non SDA's may attribute and connect 1844 to SDA's, we as SDA's should know better, since we did not exist at that time. Our church has never believed such a thing since we became a church in 1863.

[phkrause]

And by the way, that date was correct! Just not the right event.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

While non SDA's may attribute and connect 1844 to SDA's, we as SDA's should know better, since we did not exist at that time. Our church has never believed such a thing since we became a church in 1863.

while that is true, it's also a fact that the 1844 date, as well as the 1833 meteorite event in New England, has been taught as part of the Adventist heritage in schools for years...

But, like Stan, I've never met an Adventist who tried "date-predicting" for Christ's return..

[Naomi]

[M. T. Cross]

Trying to live as a Christian in an Islamic country, now that would be the persecution one could expect during the Last Days, when the churches and Bibles are burned and the Christians are tortured and executed.

This is indeed very true.

However, there is not a religious belief system that has not been persecuted to one degree or another. Christians have done their fair share of book burning and persecution as well. They have done it to people of other beliefs and worse they have done it to groups under their own umbrella of beliefs.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Christians have done their fair share of book burning and persecution as well.

Church members are not Who we are asked to follow. What say you about your response to Jesus' invitation.

"Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, “But Lord, what about this man?”

Jesus said to him, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me.”

Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?”"John 21:21-23 NKJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Aliensanctuary]

The danger is when a religion becomes tyrannical once it becomes a political monopoly. But again, that just proves how "man-made" all religions are. Humans, by nature, tend to be selfish brutes, but at least the teachings of Christ show us a better way.

Too sad when members of some cult suspend common sense and believe every word of their leaders, even their predictions of the exact date of the end of the world. Many blowhard preachers, past and present, go on and on about how Jesus could come at any moment, but they really should read what he said about the time of the end.

In the Last Days, just when it seems things couldn't get worse, the wars, the earthquakes, the persecution, and the false messiahs, it does get worse. There won't be very many humans left at that point, and if the cataclysmic events weren't ended early, there will be no survivors.