Members phkrause Posted April 19, 2014 Members Share Posted April 19, 2014 Have we got this all wrong? As Christians, how are we called to respond to the same-sex marriage debate. What do you do if you have a family member that "comes out" or a couple moves into your neighborhood? These and more are questions we need to ask ourselves and examine our heart to make sure our attitude reflects the nature of Jesus Christ before we answer. Here are ten questions to consider before sharing your opinion on this heated debate. Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Gallerie...zwkSI5bmQAcO.99 Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Nice post, pk. I agree totally with the overall tone of the article. Are our churches a quarantine for those who are "well" or a healing house for those who are not well? Does not Jesus tell all to come to Him just as they are? Are we called to show people how evil they are or how good God is? We are all powerless to overcome until we receive God's grace and His Spirit. We are to bring people to Christ; then let His Spirit deal with their issues. We also need to let God deal with our own issues rather than letting the enemy show us others' issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted April 20, 2014 Administrators Share Posted April 20, 2014 Am I a nut or isn't it a good idea to bring people into the church who are the furthest from living with Jesus? Like He Himself said He didn't come to bring the whole but the sick to repentance? And He was speaking not as if the "whole" was exactly that, nor the sick, but the ones that considered themselves as such (not other people). It's not to tell people that they are wrong but rather show them a Saviour that has ultimate happiness in store for them. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I wonder, did Jesus ever invite anyone to attend church (synagogue)? Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted April 20, 2014 Moderators Share Posted April 20, 2014 The Christian Church came into existence in the years following the death of Christ. During his life he had no church to invite people to attend. Read Hebrews. There is an invitation to worship together, attend church, in that NT book. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 My previous comment was tounge-in-cheek, that is, mild sattire. I don't believe Jesus ever asked anyone to go to synagogue to hear him preach the message. His main method was to speak to and heal people from all walks of life wherever they were. He met them on the streets, in the fields, on the seashore, and in their homes. Synagogue was mainly for the stiffs in control who liked stiffing people. We can learn much from Christ's methods of reaching people. Like I said elsewhere, A selfless life is worth far more than a library of relgious books and a lifetime of sermons. I have freely talked to a same-sex couple about spiritual matters, never about same-sex marriage, and I would never have invited them to church. Being friends with others and being interesed in their lives is far more important than inviting them to (yawn) church. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted April 20, 2014 Administrators Share Posted April 20, 2014 Except that Jesus' sermons were different. The masses flocked to hear Him speak. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Jesus took the gospel to the streets. Most of the churches (synagogues) if His day didn't even want to hear His message. In following His example, we should be taking the gospel to the streets. For some of us, that means to the workplace or the shopping center. For others, it means to a foreign country. I would think bringing the gospel to people who never heard of Jesus would have more challenges than bringing it to gays, drug addicts, or alcoholics, or . Some primitive cultures have some interesting idiosyncrasies that don't really jive well with our Christian culture. * off topic* Why do we find it necessary to spend the majority of our missions budget to preach the gospel to other Christians? Isn't that like stealing sheep? Just because they aren't SDAs doesn't mean they aren't saved. Shouldn't we be spending the majority of our mission budget reaching the unreached? *back to topic* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted April 20, 2014 Administrators Share Posted April 20, 2014 Jesus did meet people in the temple and sat and taught there. He healed the sick and the lame who came to him there. (They were not supposed to come into the temple because they were unclean.) And the children were shouting and singing as only children can do. Of course the priests were not happy about it. But Jesus affirmed the children. I think the example he set suggests that we should be more open and welcoming to those not quite up to standards or that the "religious" of our time tend to look down their noese at. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted April 21, 2014 Administrators Share Posted April 21, 2014 And then there is the instances of Jesus teaching and healing in the synagogue. In his home synagogue he was met with a negative reaction at the point he announced his mission to be for all people. The healing of a woman and the man with a withered hand each met with negative reaction because he had the nerve to heal them on the Sabbath. Seems Jesus saw the synagogue as a perfectly good place of healing. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted April 21, 2014 Administrators Share Posted April 21, 2014 Coming to church is coming into God's presence in an specific way. It is a place consecrated for His glory. The church is the arena of His grace. a place where His mercy and love is displayed for all the world to see. It is where His Character, His kingdom, and His merciful and powerful rule are to be revealed. God longs for every person in the world to come into His presence and find repentance, and forgiveness and power to give glory to God in their lives. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 If same sex couples wish to attend church meetings, no one should seek to prevent them from doing so, yet at the same time no member of that church should ever be made to feel that they cannot disagree with it nor state that it is openly sinful and that its condemned outright in Scripture. I would also suggest that doing so would prescibe someone as ineligable to be given membership in an SDA church. Still, I think its fair to say that there is a difference between attending church which is for largely anyone and membership in the denomination. Whilst people may wish to be politically correct, the blunt facts are that there have to be lines drawn in the sand at some point and this includes Adultery and every other sin you can think of. I know of two couples in a church I used to belong to whose marriages were both strugging and the husband from one couple took up with the wife of the other and they expected to continue to come along to church each Sunday like nothing had ever happened. This remains the only time in my life where I saw a case of someone being excommunicated out of fellowship for a sin that was open and placed into everyone elses faces in the congregation and I agree that it was the correct course of action for the minister to take. In answering this question I do also consider the case of the woman caught in Adultery and thrown to the feet of Jesus and he responded by writing in the sand. The accusers left and Jesus said to the woman "Go and sin no more", He did not say "Go and find a Liberal Synagogue that condones Adultery and fellowship there and be supported in what you are doing until such time as your sitation changes or you have a revelation of who I really am". The fact is that a line was also drawn in the sand here in relation to public sin. Yes sins can be private, but its not unreasonable to suggest that public sin gets a public response as per Jesus own example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I agree that a church or a "club" has to have standards. On the other hand, how many gays, smokers, druggies, and alcoholics are "in the closet" and hold church membership. If you want to be a member of the church, is it prudent to stay "in the closet"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted April 22, 2014 Members Share Posted April 22, 2014 Quote: Welcoming Same-Sex Couples to Church is there now some sort of questionnaire folks must complete before crossing the threshold of a church? if not, how is it that someone's sexual orientation is "announced" at a church? IOW, just how does a church know what is the sexual orientation of visitors....and of members, for that matter? is it really needful for a church congregation to know? I don't see anyone asking if the sexual practices of church members, gay or straight, includes BDSM, which really (imho) is more concerning, as those practices do *not* involve a loving, mutually respectful relationship... Quote Pam      Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Back in the days of Moses, the people gathered together from time to time to listen to the reading of the Law. I believe these laws pointed to the future Kingdom of YHVH where no one will be permitted to harm another. If these principles are not taught in the churches of today, these organizations will be vomited out of existence when his Kingdom arrives. Jesus did teach in the Temple and the synagogues, but I doubt that he sounded much like the preachers and their canned sermons in the formalized churches of today. I believe his most important message was to encourage the people to love and honor their Creator and to obey his laws for human behavior in order to prepare for his Kingdom. Homosexuality is no worse than any other transgression of the Law. It's still disobedience to our Creator, even though it's becoming more and more popular and pervasive here in Babylon. Soon enough, there will be a gay president and a national coming out day. Unfortunately, Christians will not be tolerated for their belief that the Laws of God are good for humanity and that the Creator himself condemned homosexuality and other transgressions. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Quote: Yes sins can be private, but its not unreasonable to suggest that public sin gets a public response as per Jesus own example. If the Word is faithfully spoken from the pulpit, without partiality by excepting the sins more easily hidden, the Holy Spirit will speak to those who need to hear. The faithful who read the Word daily at home to get acquainted with Jesus, will receive Jesus' help to overcome their shortcomings that would hinder their entrance into the Kingdom. "But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life."Rev 21:27 NKJV Jesus/God saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 http://news.yahoo.com/fugitive-81-pennsylvania-death-nabbed-texas-164845079.html Fugitive in '81 Pennsylvania death nabbed in Texas Associated Press By NOMAAN MERCHANT and MARC LEVY 5 hours ago This undated photo provided by the Wood County Sheriff's Office shows Joseph Lewis Miller. U.S. marshals say Miller, an ex-convict wanted in connection with a 1981 Pennsylvania homicide is under arrest after he was found to be living under an alias and serving as a church deacon in Mineola, Texas. DALLAS (AP) — A disabled 78-year-old church deacon living quietly in East Texas was arrested Monday by federal agents who said he committed a murder 33 years ago and 1,300 miles away. Authorities say Joseph Lewis Miller fled Pennsylvania after shooting a man in a parking lot outside a hotel in 1981. He was charged with murder and three other felonies, but the case remained unsolved for three decades until investigators translated a previous tip that Miller had been living in Mexico under an alias — the name of a deceased cousin. The U.S. Marshals Service in Harrisburg, Pa., traced that name to rural Mineola, Texas, a town of 4,500 people. Miller confessed to the shooting shortly after his arrest, authorities said. "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."Matthew 7:21 KJV God cares! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Quote: Fugitive in '81 Pennsylvania death nabbed in Texas And this has what to do with same-sex couples in the church? Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 ah...maybe allowing same-sex couples in church led to those happenings...maybe....beats me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Quote: Fugitive in '81 Pennsylvania death nabbed in Texas And this has what to do with same-sex couples in the church? Am I missing something? Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Quote: Welcoming Same-Sex Couples to Church is there now some sort of questionnaire folks must complete before crossing the threshold of a church? if not, how is it that someone's sexual orientation is "announced" at a church? IOW, just how does a church know what is the sexual orientation of visitors....and of members, for that matter? is it really needful for a church congregation to know? I don't see anyone asking if the sexual practices of church members, gay or straight, includes BDSM, which really (imho) is more concerning, as those practices do *not* involve a loving, mutually respectful relationship... Is it not simply announced when two same sex people simply walk into a church meeting hand in hand or arm in arm or display open affection towards one another in the same way as any hetrosexual couple may do? At what point is it considered okay for church members to state that they do not wish to have their children or themselves viewing that in a church meeting? "Tolerance" extends both ways, Christians should exersize tolerance and at the same time tolerance should be extended in reverse to people who do not want thier children exposed to that type of thing also, that is hardly an unreasonable request in their own place of worship, it is not like there are not now any number of pro gay churches where its welcomed and encouraged. Methodist, Congregational, Obama's denomination and so forth to name just a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 We want Gays to come to Church We do not know what to do with them once they are there. AND We do not want the children to find out and think it is normal. 'bout sums it all up.. Gossipers are ok though.. why is that? they cause more damage..... Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 We have people who have admitted to being gay in our church; even talked about it during testimonies in adult SS. Without exception, they have refrained from PDAs while at church functions (most functions for that matter). Most gays are discrete where gay affection is deemed inappropriate. We treat them just like we treat everyone else - like we treat gossips, and smokers and people who eat bacon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 We want Gays to come to ChurchWe do not know what to do with them once they are there. AND We do not want the children to find out and think it is normal. 'bout sums it all up.. I cant say for SDA Congregations in the United States, but in Australia the SDA readilly embraces interdenominational groups such as the Gideons Bible Society and the Creation Science Movement. Could it be that the SDA might wish to consider opening up communication and having dialogue with the Christians that run the Ex Gay movement and go across the nation helping people in this area, both people that are gay and those that want to minister in this area? Sy Rogers is very popular in Australian churches with this type of ministry. - http://www.syrogers.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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