Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted April 23, 2014 Members Share Posted April 23, 2014 Is it not simply announced when two same sex people simply walk into a church meeting hand in hand or arm in arm or display open affection towards one another in the same way as any hetrosexual couple may do? At what point is it considered okay for church members to state that they do not wish to have their children or themselves viewing that in a church meeting? "Tolerance" extends both ways, Christians should exersize tolerance and at the same time tolerance should be extended in reverse to people who do not want thier children exposed to that type of thing also, that is hardly an unreasonable request in their own place of worship, it is not like there are not now any number of pro gay churches where its welcomed and encouraged. Methodist, Congregational, Obama's denomination and so forth to name just a few. sorry, but men walking arm-in-arm and women walking arm-in-arm is not necessarily an indication of a homosexual relationship... as far as PDA's between a couple during a church service, my own thoughts are that it's inappropriate no matter what the sexual orientation of the couple. And children? Children respond to love. They also pick up on bigotry, snobbishness, and holier-than-thou attitudes. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 What Pam said - 100% Other than that, I think the big hurdle here is that you are thinking of them as Gays when in fact they are people - just like you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 as far as PDA's between a couple during a church service, my own thoughts are that it's inappropriate no matter what the sexual orientation of the couple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted April 23, 2014 Members Share Posted April 23, 2014 Originally Posted By: rudywoofs as far as PDA's between a couple during a church service, my own thoughts are that it's inappropriate no matter what the sexual orientation of the couple. I disagree on that point, why should people not sit in an embrace such as having their arm around one another or holding hands in a church meeting? How is that in any way "inappropriate"? Do you consider it inappropriate for a husband to kiss his wife or for the wife to kiss their husband if they are present inside of the church hall? Is that not a part of a church marriage service? I feel it is inappropriate during Sabbath church services (and *obviously* I'm not speaking of weddings). I'm not interested in watching such activities. If you feel the need to canoodle and disregard the people around you, that's up to you. Originally Posted By: rudywoofs And children? Children respond to love. They also pick up on bigotry, snobbishness, and holier-than-thou attitudes. Originally Posted By: sojourner I am not sure how to take this last point, I am neither a bigot, a snob, nor do I think I am better than anyone else. I hope that remark was not directed at me simply because I beleive homosexuality is sinful, because if so I find that quite openly offensive. you brought up the subject of children being subjected to actions....I was responding to that.. I have no idea whether you are a bigot, a snob, or think you are better than someone else. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Quote: Sy Rogers is very popular in Australian churches with this type of ministry. Sy Rogers is very popular among LGBTs here in Denver as well. Our church supports a ministry here called "Where Grace Abounds" which focuses on ministry to the LGBT community. I went to hear Sy speak one night and he was completely awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."John 13:35 KJV For those who choose regularly to practice that which God will not allow in His kingdom, they should be allowed to regularly attend worship services where they are able to hear, without presuppositions, the reality which eternity requires. Be it gossip or illicit sexual behavior, that sin which is cherished will determine their eternal destiny. God's love for them will not be any less, but God knows they would be miserable in a holy atmosphere and He loves them too much to insist they spend eternity in unholy misery. God is love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 One problem we're dealing with is that Protestant churches are the bastard stepchildren of Catholicism, which is itself an illegitimate stepchild of the original Kingdom of YHVH on Earth. Back in the wilderness, YHVH was the Master, while Moses, Aaron, Miriam, and all the rest of the descendents of Jacob were the servants. Due to human failure, that system adapted especially for humans was swept aside in AD 70, but the real Kingdom of YHVH still stands, and will someday return to this world. Recall from Rev 12 that the Woman, a city from space, gives birth to a son, the Restored Kingdom of Israel, which will rule the world with the iron rod of justice. For a time, the whole world will live in peace and prosperity once all nations become subjects of Israel. With that in mind, we must take everything that Christ said seriously, putting transgressions and rebellion behind us, and teaching others to do the same. That's our mission on Earth, to prepare ourselves, and others, for life as servants in the Kingdom of YHVH. The churches of today are so polluted with Babylon that they cannot demonstrate to the world what the Kingdom of YHVH is. The list of our personal transgressions is long, but we must study carefully the teachings of Christ and the teachings of YHVH, and carry them out, just as Jesus did. Jesus was human and no different physically from us except in one respect: His DNA was repaired so that he could communicate telepathically with YHVH. YHVH, his father, told him everything to say and do, what others were thinking, and what the future held for him and the world. If the churches wish to get back on task, they should continue Christ's mission of teaching the people what the Kingdom of YHVH is like by conducting themselves as servants of YHVH, and servants of mankind. The canned sermons, the programs, the rituals, the fine clothing, the tolerance and embrace of transgressions of the laws of YHVH...it's all a waste. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Along with Sy Rogers this is another group that I have found on Facebook - It seems that they advertise a number of ministry events and so forth run by various different groups. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ex-Homosexual-Through-Jesus-Christ/227709067265250 From this page I found this YouTube video where Pastor D L Foster speaks openly about his journey as a Christian from a Pentecostal Holiness Background - here is what he has to say "Giving all praises to God who on April 12, 1990 delivered my soul and my life from the devil who sought to sift me as wheat. Its been 24 years since I left homosexuality to follow Jesus and I don't regret one single moment of it. The journey thus far has been filled with ups, downs, highs and lows. Ive seen the glory of God and Ive experienced his hand of loving discipline. All that I am and ever hope to be, I owe it all to the One who redeemed me. In case you have never heard my testimony, its still the same. God delivered me, changed me and transformed me. He didn't change me from a fornicating homosexual to a fornicating heterosexual but from a sinner to a son. He gave me what no man could ever give me: love that would never leave me or forsake me. Im thankful to my wife and my children for loving me and respecting me as I have obeyed God to tell this world that I am free indeed. Thanks to all who helped me grow spiritually by rebuke, discipline, love and giving me opportunity to be a man of God. I pause to give him glory before I head back into the harvest fields". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VSupZzWYTg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 1 Corinthians 5 Quote: Paul Condemns Spiritual Pride 1. I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you, something so evil that even the pagans don't do it. I am told that you have a man in your church who is living in sin with his father's wife. 2. And you are so proud of yourselves! Why aren't you mourning in sorrow and shame? And why haven't you removed this man from your fellowship? 3. Even though I am not there with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit.* Concerning the one who has done this, I have already passed judgment 4. in the name of the Lord Jesus. You are to call a meeting of the church,* and I will be there in spirit, and the power of the Lord Jesus will be with you as you meet. 5. Then you must cast this man out of the church and into Satan's hands, so that his sinful nature will be destroyed* and he himself* will be saved when the Lord returns. 6. How terrible that you should boast about your spirituality, and yet you let this sort of thing go on. Don't you realize that if even one person is allowed to go on sinning, soon all will be affected? 7. Remove this wicked person from among you so that you can stay pure.* Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us. 8. So let us celebrate the festival, not by eating the old bread* of wickedness and evil, but by eating the new bread* of purity and truth. 9. When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. 10. But I wasn't talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or who are greedy or are swindlers or idol worshipers. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. 11. What I meant was that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a Christian* yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or a drunkard, or a swindler. Don't even eat with such people. 12. It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your job to judge those inside the church who are sinning in these ways. 13. God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, "You must remove the evil person from among you."* Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 23, 2014 Author Members Share Posted April 23, 2014 Along with Sy Rogers this is another group that I have found on Facebook - It seems that they advertise a number of ministry events and so forth run by various different groups. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ex-Homosexual-Through-Jesus-Christ/227709067265250 From this page I found this YouTube video where Pastor D L Foster speaks openly about his journey as a Christian from a Pentecostal Holiness Background - here is what he has to say "Giving all praises to God who on April 12, 1990 delivered my soul and my life from the devil who sought to sift me as wheat. Its been 24 years since I left homosexuality to follow Jesus and I don't regret one single moment of it. The journey thus far has been filled with ups, downs, highs and lows. Ive seen the glory of God and Ive experienced his hand of loving discipline. All that I am and ever hope to be, I owe it all to the One who redeemed me. In case you have never heard my testimony, its still the same. God delivered me, changed me and transformed me. He didn't change me from a fornicating homosexual to a fornicating heterosexual but from a sinner to a son. He gave me what no man could ever give me: love that would never leave me or forsake me. Im thankful to my wife and my children for loving me and respecting me as I have obeyed God to tell this world that I am free indeed. Thanks to all who helped me grow spiritually by rebuke, discipline, love and giving me opportunity to be a man of God. I pause to give him glory before I head back into the harvest fields". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VSupZzWYTg That is one awesome testimony. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted April 23, 2014 Administrators Share Posted April 23, 2014 I agree! What we should be striving for is to facilitate everyone's journey into close proximity to Jesus however we can. Too often it is we who get in the way Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Quote: That is one awesome testimony. I agree 100%! Oh, that we all had a testimony like that, regardless of our issues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 From this page I found this YouTube video where Pastor D L Foster speaks openly about his journey as a Christian from a Pentecostal Holiness Background - here is what he has to say "Giving all praises to God who on April 12, 1990 delivered my soul and my life from the devil who sought to sift me as wheat. Its been 24 years since I left homosexuality to follow Jesus and I don't regret one single moment of it. The journey thus far has been filled with ups, downs, highs and lows. Ive seen the glory of God and Ive experienced his hand of loving discipline. All that I am and ever hope to be, I owe it all to the One who redeemed me. In case you have never heard my testimony, its still the same. God delivered me, changed me and transformed me. He didn't change me from a fornicating homosexual to a fornicating heterosexual but from a sinner to a son. He gave me what no man could ever give me: love that would never leave me or forsake me. Im thankful to my wife and my children for loving me and respecting me as I have obeyed God to tell this world that I am free indeed. Thanks to all who helped me grow spiritually by rebuke, discipline, love and giving me opportunity to be a man of God. I pause to give him glory before I head back into the harvest fields". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VSupZzWYTg Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I suppose it would be OK for gays and other sinners to attend church, but the ministers should make it clear to all that transgression of the laws of YHVH will not be tolerated in his Kingdom. Those laws were designed to protect us from harming others and ourselves, including disease-spreading sexual practices. Even thinking of breaking his laws is just as bad as actually breaking them. Jesus did not condemn the woman caught in adultery, but he did tell her to stop sinning. Likewise, we can be sure that he would have said the same thing to someone caught in a homosexual act, "Go, and sin no more." Same thing for those caught murdering, stealing, cursing YHVH, lying, etc. I'm not a big fan of Paul's, but he did have some strong things to say about sexual sin in the church. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 The Sabbath School lesson this week states that Jesus makes it also a sin to be angry with a brother. Should we post a good deacon at the door inviting all the sinners to take special lessons in sinlessness and make that a requirement before entering the sanctuary? This is just a question. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Seems like acknowledgment and confession of our transgressions against YHVH would be the first step toward putting those harmful practices behind us. I believe that by seeking the Spirit's power we can overcome our natural desire to become citizens of Babylon and be anesthetized by its forbidden pleasures. Personally, I would like to be able to look the Son of Man in the eye upon meeting him, rather than cowering and hiding in some dark cave... Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted April 26, 2014 Administrators Share Posted April 26, 2014 And it would seem if we were more concerned about acknowledging our own transgressions and putting our own harmful practices behind us, we would be far less concerned (for lack of time if nothing else) about the transgressions and harmful practices of others. I think such serious introspection would also humble us to be more accepting and welcoming of fellow struggling sinners whose sins no more separate them from YHVH than our own do. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Quote: And it would seem if we were more concerned about acknowledging our own transgressions and putting our own harmful practices behind us Amen, Tom. Another thing is to ask the Spirit to see other people through Jesus' eyes. I can't think of a time when Jesus expressed anger at a sinner seeking Him. He looks at every man with compassion, love, and a longing for fellowship. 3 Quote: 1 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live! (Ez. 18:31-32) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 26, 2014 Author Members Share Posted April 26, 2014 Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 26, 2014 Author Members Share Posted April 26, 2014 Along those lines here's a sermon by DL. Even though his sermon is not about homosexuals per say, but its about Jesus' response to the woman at the well!! Title: 2011-10-08_The Last Word. Born Again...Again by Dr. Dwight K. Nelson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN5Ug06k6MA Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 It would be important to have a clear conscience before concerning ourselves about other's sins. Likely, there would be no more stonings or back-stabbings. It is human nature to fail to see our own transgressions, or make excuses for them, and point the accusing finger at the other guy. It would be a sparse crowd attending church indeed if sinners were not allowed, but it should be extremely important to identify and shun those things which separate us from YHVH, our owner and master. The things we do to entertain ourselves speak far more loudly than our church attendance and pious prayers. Do we sit in front of a TV every evening to watch the 10 Commandments being broken by people pretending to be something they are not? Homosexuality to me seems no worse than the many other sins we might defend or embrace. Only persecution will save us, I fear, from our lethargy. Only persecution will strip away our surface religion and force us to rely on our Creator to save us, or not. Yea, even though the homosexuals and Darwinians and God-Haters take over the media and the government and the schools and the churches and turn this country into a Babylonian cesspool and subsequently persecute the Christians, we will be safe, even if they kill us. It's that mark on our foreheads, the logo of the Kingdom of YHVH indicating that we are his servants, that is the prize we must seek. We must purge Babylonian thinking from our minds if we are to resist evil desires and overcome our selfish human nature. We can only encourage others to seek that mark, rather than condemn those who do not seek it, or fail. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Ok, what happens if we do not welcome them? Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted April 27, 2014 Members Share Posted April 27, 2014 at best, they'll go to another [more welcoming] church, or at worst, they'll reject Christianity to the degree it rejected them... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Quote: at best, they'll go to another [more welcoming] church, or at worst, they'll reject Christianity to the degree it rejected them... I agree, Pam. Unfortunately, if they fail at finding a more welcoming church too many times, they are more inclined to just forget about the Christian church. But that's different than rejecting God. The Spirit can work on anyone as long as there is breath in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Quote: Homosexuality to me seems no worse than the many other sins we might defend or embrace. I don't think Sodom and Gomorrah we're destroyed for kipeing paper clips at the local Walmart. God cares! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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