the Ellen White American Prophet book

[whbae]

Do you know if plagiarizing continued throught her life or just in the beginning?

[M. T. Cross]

I am only thinking out loud. Would one need some degree of education to plagiarize some one else's work? If so, did Ellen White have enough education to do it?

She had enough to write all those books.........

I am a high school drop out. A couple years back I took a test to determine my education level in order to take a course at the local community college. I scored a 4th year university education level. I have that cause I read a lot.

So its very likely that EGW did spend some time reading and may have just been a very bright person that made the most out of a little.

(did I just defend EGW )

[Aliensanctuary]

Even though I feel that EGW was somewhat of a charlatan, I do like certain parts of DA and GC. It just bothers me sometimes that she, her assistants, and their sometimes plagiarized materials are quoted like the scriptures by the religious right, who at times, wield the quotes like weapons, humiliating or destroying their enemies with their voluminous barrage.

[Gail]

Even though I feel that EGW was somewhat of a charlatan, I do like certain parts of DA and GC. It just bothers me sometimes that she, her assistants, and their sometimes plagiarized materials are quoted like the scriptures by the religious right, who at times, wield the quotes like weapons, humiliating or destroying their enemies with their voluminous barrage.

The same can happen with the Bible.

[Gail]

Originally Posted By: whbae

I am only thinking out loud. Would one need some degree of education to plagiarize some one else's work? If so, did Ellen White have enough education to do it?

She had enough to write all those books.........

I am a high school drop out. A couple years back I took a test to determine my education level in order to take a course at the local community college. I scored a 4th year university education level. I have that cause I read a lot.

So its very likely that EGW did spend some time reading and may have just been a very bright person that made the most out of a little.

(did I just defend EGW )

You were just being fair :)

[whbae]

Is it possible that God was trying to find a person to use His work in this earth and in doing so He gave the same kind of messages. And His effort did not work out until He came to E. G. White who accepted His mission. Therefore, a lot of messages are same as others.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Even though I feel that EGW was somewhat of a charlatan

Plagiarize was not recognized lawless misconduct until sometime after laws were passed when she had passed from the scene. Where there is no law, there is no crime.

IMO a real crime bringing far more dire results, has been accepted in human society. That of excluding the OT scriptures as part of God's instruction for His people for our day and age.

"Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you. Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Your eyes have seen what the LORD did because of Baalpeor: for all the men that followed Baalpeor, the LORD thy God hath destroyed them from among you. But ye that did cleave unto the LORD your God are alive every one of you this day."

Deuteronomy 4:1-4 KJV

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[Aliensanctuary]

One might wonder how many of the writers of the scriptures borrowed their materials from others and failed to cite their sources.

Micah 4, 1-2

Quote:

In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.

People from many nations will come and say,

“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of Jacob’s God.

There he will teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths. For the Lord’s teaching will go out from Zion; his word will go out from Jerusalem.

Isaiah 2:1-3

Quote:

This is a vision that Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:

In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.

People from many nations will come and say,

“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of Jacob’s God.

There he will teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For the Lord’s teaching will go out from Zion; his word will go out from Jerusalem.

If a person wishes to put their faith in EGW, that's OK. Perhaps that makes them feel better. She did have some good thoughts. I see something far different for the Last Days than she did. Never mind the investigative judgment or the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary. They're both just bogus.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

I see something far different for the Last Days than she did. Never mind the investigative judgment or the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary. They're both just bogus.

So...is that how you feel about anyone who disagrees with your belief? How does it feel up on that pedestal of 'rightness'?

[hch]

One might wonder how many of the writers of the scriptures borrowed their materials from others and failed to cite their sources...

The book of Revelation is a great example. I forget how many texts are cited from other Scripture but it is substantial. And John claims that it came from God through Jesus by His angel (Gabriel).

[Aliensanctuary]

Sorry, my filters are damaged and need replacing. Sometimes I think out loud, and regret it later, as in the above case. It's nothing that a body grinder wouldn't take care of.

The bottom line is that we should respect others at all times, no matter what they think, do, or say.

The world is full of religions that claim to have the "truth". More likely, none of us has a proper understanding of the Kingdom of YHVH. I'll leave EGW alone, for now, and let her RIP.

[hch]

...

If a person wishes to put their faith in EGW, that's OK. Perhaps that makes them feel better. She did have some good thoughts. I see something far different for the Last Days than she did. Never mind the investigative judgment or the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary. They're both just bogus.

Through the study of the Bible and EGW; in Sept 2011 to Sept 2012, I discovered that pope Benedict would not be pope in 2013. I tweeted it 8 times before he resigned and it is in the twitter archives and then it came about. Nothing bogus about that.

Multitudes were surprised by the pope's resignation (they did not even know then or now that it was prophecy fulfilled), but my faith was strengthened because God's word was sure and EGW was right on.

When the book America, the Obama Nation (drawn largely from EGW's writings goes viral) the opinion that 'the investigative judgment and the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary are both just bogus' will go the way of the T Rex. The world will see that there has been a prophet among us and the work will be finished.

[born_again1]

Could you explain how you came up with this idea through SOP and the Bible that Pope Benedict would resign, or at least not be the Pope in 2013?

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Through the study of the Bible and EGW; in Sept 2011 to Sept 2012, I discovered that pope Benedict would not be pope in 2013. I tweeted it 8 times before he resigned and it is in the twitter archives and then it came about. Nothing bogus about that.

If you tell us that you discovered the above from the above, who can argue with you on that. The only argument that can be made relates to whether or not you have correctly understood the Bible and EGW.

However, that idea has been around for hundreds of years. The Internet is full of such. For one example, see the URL below.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/14..._n_2679662.html

The idea is that an Irish archbishop, who became a saint, by the name of St. Malachy Predicted in 1139, that there would be 112 more popes. Benedict is considered to be the 111th.

This alleged prophecy by St. Malachy is considered to be a forgery by scholars. You can read the multiple reasons for this in the Internet posts. One of the reasons is that there is no evidence for this prophecy by Malachy until several hundred years after he is alleged to have made it in 1139. There are other reasons also.

In any case the basis idea that HCH claims to have discovered from the Bible and EGW has been alive and known for hundreds of years prior to the birth of EGW. This idea of HCH is not new. Perhaps, HCH has given is some minor twists, but the basic idea is hundreds of years old.

At least, as I understand what HCH is saying.

[Tom Wetmore]

Each generation from Adam looked forward to redemption and a new kingdom. The specifics got twisted and misunderstood. But each viewed their time as the worst ever, as bad as it could get, with every enemy and evil thing as THE end of all things as foretold by the prophets. The real Messiah, and his specific plan and purpose was misunderstood and unrecognized accept by a few.

Since He returned, His followers have waited expectantly for his return, watching for any signal that He was on His way. Every enemy and evil thing under the sun has been conjured and interpreted as foretelling the end of all things that would result in his immediate appearing to make all things new again. The objective and focus of that expectancy has always been to destroy all our enemies and all evil on earth.

But Jesus framed the final judgement differently. He said last and great sign of the end would be the Good News of Love and Forgivness triumphing at last, spreading throughout the earth, even, or especially, in the small acts of kindness unto the least of these. It is not evil or enemies we should keep an eye on. Something quite different indeed.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

But Jesus framed the final judgement differently. He said last and great sign of the end would be the Good News of Love and Forgivness triumphing at last, spreading throughout the earth, even, or especially, in the small acts of kindness unto the least of these. It is not evil or enemies we should keep an eye on. Something quite different indeed.

Christ came once and the knowledgeable found it difficult to accept Him because of their expectations. We see the same today, wanting much the same as the ancient thought leaders, seeking condemnation of all who do not think 'right'.

[Tom Wetmore]

And I suspect that at that final act of judgment, some will react to the very idea that He will save those against whom they have ranted and were sure to be cursed for eternity as negatively as the Jews did to a Messiah that came to bless all people, even the enemies of the Jews.

Surely God would not save or bless ______________

Jesus' message was consistent - new commandment to love one another, all will know we are his followers by our love for one another, even as you have done unto the least of these, the poor, the sick the orphans and widows, those in prison. He came to set the captives free comfort and lift up the oppressed, feed the hungry... It is what Israel was so often chastised for failing to do do, the failure that got Sodom destroyed. And it is what his kingdom is based on, and on what he will execute justice at the end of the earth.

[hch]

Could you explain how you came up with this idea through SOP and the Bible that Pope Benedict would resign, or at least not be the Pope in 2013?

 

Born_again1,

 

Sorry i missed this till now

 

There were several ways.

 

Daniel 7:17 appeared to be contradictory of 7:2-3.

 

Daniel saw sea-beasts (kingdoms), but heaven explained earth kings.

sea and earth are different symbols with different meanings.

 

That led to revelation 13 that explains the beast from the earth

 

Applying the symbols in Rev 13 from Daniel 7:17

indicated popes bonding with American Presidents

 

And Revelation 17 focused on their interaction, limiting it to a prophetic hour.

 

The papal beast received its wounding in 1798.

 

The first beast in Rev 13 is not the wounded beast: It's deadly wound was healed.

The wounding was for the popes to loose their kingdom

The healing was to have the kingdom restored

 

The restoration of the papal kingdom was in 1929

Rev 17 states 5 kings are fallen: since 1929 - 5 popes were dead - Pius XI & XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, John-Paul I

 

One pope is John-Paul II

 

One is to come for a "short space"

 

EGW states "The number 7 indicates completeness, and is symbolic of the fact that the messages extend to the end of time, while the symbols used reveal the condition of the church at different periods in the history of the world." {AA 585.3}

 

The RCC can be viewed as Babylon (Babylon, the symbol of the apostate church)  {COL 178.4}

 

In ancient Babylon, New Year's Day was in March. Whoever was king on New Year's Day got credit for the entire year.

 

Pope John-Paul II died 2 April 2005: he got credit for being king through March (New Year's Day 2006)

 

Benedict XVI's ascension year was through New Year's Day 2006 on Babylonian Calendar

 

Thus Benedict's first year began March 2006 and MUST END before New Year's Day on Babylonian Calendar 2013.

 

The number of completeness extends to the end of time and relates to the church.

 

If Benedict's reign passed the March New Year's Day 2006 on Babylonian Calendar,

it would not be a "short space" (shorter than completeness)

Thus for him to fulfill the conditions in the prophecy as I understood them

Benedict XVI HAD TO LEAVE OFFICE PRIOR TO the March Babylonian New Year's Day 2013

 

Because of calendar changes in Babylonian reckoning and Gregorian

I had difficulty knowing 29 March was New Year's Day on their calendar

 

So I assumed, he would leave office by May 2013

 

And in Sept 2012, I narrowed it down to "he will leave office by Spring of 2013"

 

After he resigned, more Bible study revealed that the prophetic hour of Rev17:12

was 83-years 4-months from 14 October 1929 through 14 February 2013.

 

And as god would have it, I was giving a seminar to about 250 SDA's in Atlanta

on 14 February 2013 and declared that this day is a historic fulfillment of prophecy.

[hch]

 

Quote:

Through the study of the Bible and EGW; in Sept 2011 to Sept 2012, I discovered that pope Benedict would not be pope in 2013. I tweeted it 8 times before he resigned and it is in the twitter archives and then it came about. Nothing bogus about that...

In any case the basis idea that HCH claims to have discovered from the Bible and EGW has been alive and known for hundreds of years prior to the birth of EGW. This idea of HCH is not new. Perhaps, HCH has given is some minor twists, but the basic idea is hundreds of years old.

At least, as I understand what HCH is saying.

 

 

Gregory,

 

reading this, I now understand some of your vague references posted elsewhere.

 

Let's be clear, I said that I understood from the Bible and EGW that pope Benedict would leave office by Spring 2013.

Here are my Tweets from the Twitter archives:

 

Pope Benedict XVI has but a very short time left (9/3/11)

 

#Pope Benedict XVI marks his last year with a Latin America trip that includes a visit to #Cuba (23 March 2012)

 

With Benedict XVI in his last year, Who’s going to be the new pope? … (3 April 2012)

 

Is Pope Benedict going to be pope in 2013? (29 April 2012)

 

Months ago I tweeted that pope Benedict XVI is a short timer. Now Vatican power play is news! Y u b last 2 know? (28 May 2012)

 

If Pope Benedict’s 8th year is really his 7th, his time ends before May 2013 (7 July 2012)

 

Pope Benedict’s 8th year is really his 7th, because his ascension year was John-Paul II’s last year.

Will Benedict XVI’s 7th year B his last (8 August 2012)

 

Pope #Benedict XVI As I read Daniel’s prophecy, 7’s number of completeness. His ascension year (zero) 2005.

He might last till spring 2013? (30 September 2012)

 

 

So without asking to see the tweets or confirming the dates in the Twitter archives, you debunk my statement by saying: "HCH claims to have discovered from the Bible and EGW has been alive and known for hundreds of years prior to the birth of EGW. This idea of HCH is not new. Perhaps, HCH has given is some minor twists, but the basic idea is hundreds of years old."

 

Please show your evidence that it was "known for hundreds of years prior to the birth of EGW" that Pope Benedict's last year was 2012 or that he would leave office or "he might last till the Spring of 2013"

 

If it has been known for hundreds of years, why did God's people not expect it? And when there are those of us who do expect it and show how the prophetic waymarks fit in their propper place others of our association, debunk the present truth or brush it off as though it is something that we don't talk about?

 

God never intended Bible prophecy to make smarter sinners.

 

Would you suggest that God gave us prophetic understanding with the intention that we should ignore it when it comes to pass?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I'm pretty sure Gregory was referring to the prophecies of St Malachy...  (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes)

 

Just to be clear, what do you feel is/are the purpose(s) of a prophecy?

 

Is it to:

 

1) change your behavior?

 

2) provide evidence of a Higher Authority when the prophecy comes true?

 

or something else?

[hch]

...Just to be clear, what do you feel is/are the purpose(s) of a prophecy?

 

Is it to:

 

1) change your behavior?

 

2) provide evidence of a Higher Authority when the prophecy comes true?

 

or something else?

 

All of the above

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

that's all?

 

do you feel a "prophecy" is a "promise"?

[TruthSeeker123]

it's my opinion that much of the passages were chosen by her assistants... Ellen White couldn't possibly have read all the articles and books where the various clips came from...

I read in one of EG White's books--the title of which escapes me right now--that refrained from reading other people's work because she didn't want them to influence her writing.

[hch]

I read in one of EG White's books--the title of which escapes me right now--that refrained from reading other people's work because she didn't want them to influence her writing.

 

According to Arthur White in the biography of EGW she was a avid reader.

[Gail]

She had an extensive library, that is what I understand