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Hamas vs. Israel: The Case for Moral Clarity


phkrause

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phkrause

By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1}
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Hamas celebrates death, something few Westerners can understand.

Israel celebrates life, something all Westerners should understand.

It is striking, that instead of building a peaceful, better life for Gaza's people, Hamas provokes war with Israel by indiscriminately launching thousands of rockets which land in civilian areas. We needn't be fooled who their master is: a master of lies, treachery, and murder. They lost their honor a long, long time ago, if they ever had any to begin with.

Now perhaps, the Native Americans in the USA should spew venom and take up arms to violently drive the European usurpers off their land and into the sea from where they came.

Unfortunately, Hamas, and all its supporters and sympathizers are being controlled by Satanic forces who care nothing for human beings.

The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
 

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200 dead as a result of Israeli airstrikes diminishes the case rather dramatically don't you think? History has taught us that the power with the most weapons and even the claim to moral authority does not always win in the end. This stalemate does not favor Israel.

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence.

Einstein

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Firing rockets into one nation by another is an act of war. Sadly, the morons who keep launching the rockets into Israel aren't the only ones getting killed or hurt or having their homes destroyed. That's exactly what the rocket-launching morons want, innocent Palestinian victims to march in their glorious parade of terrorist treachery.

If terrorists would only put the guns, bombs, and rockets down, they could live in peace. Acts of war will only bring more war, and death. They don't want peace because they are driven by demons of death, too powerful for the weak-minded to escape from.

The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
 

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If terrorists would only put the guns, bombs, and rockets down, they could live in peace. Acts of war will only bring more war, and death. They don't want peace because they are driven by demons of death, too powerful for the weak-minded to escape from.

Acts of violence are effective. Why do you think terrorists and nations states use them. I think you analysis doesn't take into account the reality of what it means to fight for freedom. Do you thin the angels of heaven are with Israel?

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence.

Einstein

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I have long since suspected that demons cannot tell the difference between Christians and Jews and repeatedly attack the Jew in the manner that we are seeing today and in 1936-45. The names of the enemies of the Jews may change, but their motivation remains the same, hence why Mien Kampf is a best selling book in the Palestinian controlled territories.

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...demons cannot tell the difference between Christians and Jews...

wrong.... of course, they can, but they really don't care about the difference.

Pam     coffeecomputer.GIF   

Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup.

If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony.

Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?

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Acts of violence are effective. Why do you think terrorists and nations states use them. I think you analysis doesn't take into account the reality of what it means to fight for freedom. Do you thin the angels of heaven are with Israel?

Who do you think they are with? Are you a terrorist fighting for freedom?

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...demons cannot tell the difference between Christians and Jews...

wrong.... of course, they can, but they really don't care about the difference.

Exactly.

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Acts of violence are effective.

Acts of violence tend to create more violence. Like the Great Teacher once said, "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword."

Islamic acts of violence will only be effective if Israel is overrun and its population exterminated. Then, it's our turn, next.

It's OK if the Creator allows Islam to destroy western civilization, so engulfed in depravity, but may God have mercy on women and those who refuse to convert. There will be mountains and mountains of decapitated heads in all of the sports arenas. Such is the price of allowing evil to rule our nation and export it to the rest of the world.

The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
 

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Quote:
Acts of violence are effective.

Acts of violence tend to create more violence. Like the Great Teacher once said, "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword."

Does that apply to Israeli acts of violence or American acts of violence?

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence.

Einstein

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WOW!! I had to come off of lurking mode here. I cannot believe that Bible believing SDA's are actually defending the bombardment of innocent women and children in Palestine! In 13 years 28 Israeli's have been killed by Hamas rockets. In the past week alone 300 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli shelling!! Among those 300 were INNOCENT CHILDREN!!

In fact the Religious Jews are AGAINST the Israeli state. Israel is a SECULAR state. Don't believe me ??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IapWP8hq9Mc

Again, just because the Israeli's are doing it doesn't make it right! There are good people and bad people in EVERY nationality, in every country and religion. Human beings are ALL tempted by the same fallen angels, and we all have the same fallen nature. There are good people in Palestine. There are good people in Israel. There are bad people in both countries as well. However, prior to 1946 Jews lived in peace in the Holy Land, even though it was Palestine. The land was given to the Jews, who then segregated the Palestinians. They have inferior schools, inferior infrastructure and unequal rights. I am not sayng that I think Hamas should shoot rockets in order to gain freedom. However, the heavy handed response by Israel is ALSO wrong. I don't believe that God is happy with the actions of EITHER side!!!

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erhmmm... here's an interesting piece my Jewish cousin over in Jerusalem posted today:

1. Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.

3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 CE lasted no more than 22 years.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.

7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

9. In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.

10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution, and slaughter.

11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.

12. Arab refugees were intentionally not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people's lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.

13. The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.

14. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them.

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.

17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.

18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.

19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.

20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

Pam     coffeecomputer.GIF   

Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup.

If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony.

Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?

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Hamas actually wants dead Palestinian women and children, otherwise they would not smuggle weapons into Gaza, launch missiles indiscriminately, and dig tunnels into Israel. Israel only plays into the terrorist's hand when their armies kill and wound innocents as collateral damage when reacting to terrorist provocation. Only slime balls would kill three Israeli teenagers and hide their bodies.

We might all agree that if our nation were under attack we would support the measures necessary to stop the use of weapons against us.

If Hamas wanted to turn Gaza into a land of peace, they could easily do so...no more rockets fired into Israel, no more tunnels, no more weapons smuggling, no more hate speech. Both Gaza and the West Bank would become a safe place to live, especially for women and children.

Unfortunately, the hate-filled terrorists will have none of that. Because they're all congenital morons and bullies, we can only hope that the decent people of Palestine will rise up and put an end to their stupidity, violence, and love of death.

Not likely, though, because the telepathic demons driving the terrorists are too powerful for their weak minds to resist. They don't care who they kill in order to retain their baleful power. They're only a curse to the good people in Gaza who just want to live their lives out in peace and be happy.

The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
 

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In terms of innocent men, women and children being killed in the Palestinian controlled territories, the United Nations are very much culpable and responsible over this. On the last occasion that this happened, the same thing happened, Hamas militants hid and repeatedly fired their weapons in densely populated areas in acts that are judged to be war crimes by the United Nations. They were happy enough to launch an investigation into Israel and to condemn the Jews, but no such condemnation was given to the leaders of Hamas that committed these war crimes, neither was any one from Hamas brought to trial over what they had done. Hence why this time around Hamas will simply continue committing war crimes at will, knowing that there will be no accountability on them at any stage via the UN or anyone else.

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Pam, you are woefully misinformed. Here is a timeline of who ruled what. For brevity, I've left on what matters, but you can see the full time line here: http://www.seetheholyland.net/historical-timeline/

Pre-Biblical and early Biblical times

BC

c. 7000: Jericho is a walled settlement

c. 5000-4000: Land of Canaan is occupied by Canaanites, then Amorites and Jebusites.

c. 2000: Founding patriarch Abraham and his tribe settle in what becomes Judea.

Egypt/return to the promised land, etc...

TWO KINGDOMS

c. 930: Israel splits into northern kingdom of Israel and southern kingdom of Judah (including Jerusalem).

c. 720: Northern kingdom conquered by Assyria and its 10 tribes sent into exile.

701: Assyrians conquer much of southern kingdom; Jerusalem is besieged but survives.

597: Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon captures southern kingdom and Jerusalem.

587: Following rebellion, Nebuchadnezzar destroys Jerusalem and First Temple, deporting most of population to Babylon (in present-day Iraq).

PERSIAN RULE

539: Cyrus the Great of Persia conquers Babylon and allows Jews to return from captivity.

HELLENISTIC RULE

332: Alexander the Great conquers Persian Empire, including all of Palestine.

HASMONEAN RULE

140: Simon Maccabeus, a brother of Judas, establishes Hasmonean Dynasty, which rules an independent Jewish kingdom for 103 years.

37: Rome proclaims Herod as King of Israel, now a Roman client state, ending the Hasmonean Dynasty.

ROMAN RULE

20: Herod expands Temple Mount and rebuilds Temple.

67: During First Jewish-Roman War, Christians in Palestine flee to Pella in Jordan.

70: Romans destroy Jerusalem and Second Temple.

135: Hadrian crushes Second Jewish Revolt and expels Jews from Palestine.

BYZANTINE RULE

330: Constantine moves his capital from Nicomedia to Byzantium (renamed Constantinople, now Istanbul)

629: Emperor Heraclius I re-establishes Byzantine rule in Jerusalem and recovers True Cross stolen by Persians.

ISLAMIC RULE

638: Islamic forces conquer Jerusalem, beginning rule by succession of Arab dynasties.

661-1000: Palestine variously ruled by Arab caliphs in Damascus, Baghdad and Cairo.

1071: Seljuk Turks capture Jerusalem, persecuting Christians, desecrating churches and barring pilgrims.

CRUSADER RULE

1099: First Crusade captures Jerusalem and establishes Latin kingdom; Dome of the Rock becomes church called Templum Domini (Temple of the Lord).

1187: Sultan Saladin defeats Crusaders at Horns of Hattin above Sea of Galilee, then takes Jerusalem.

ISLAMIC RULE AGAIN

1219: St Francis of Assisi visits Egypt and meets Sultan Melek al-Kamil.

1342: Pope Clement VI formally establishes Franciscan Custody of the Holy Land.

OTTOMAN RULE

1517: Ottoman Turks take control of Palestine from Mamluks.

1860: First Jewish immigrant neighbourhood outside Old City of Jerusalem is established, funded by Sir Moses Montefiore.

1917: British government’s Balfour Declaration backs establishing Jewish homeland in Palestine, without prejudice to “civil and religious rights” of non-Jewish population.

BRITISH MANDATE

1917: British forces under General E. H. Allenby capture Palestine from Ottoman Turks.

1947: United Nations Partition Plan calls for a Jewish state and an Arab state in Palestine, with Greater Jerusalem (including Bethlehem) under international control; most Jewish groups accept plan but Arabs reject it.

Now, throughout those years between Islamic Rule and all other conquerors BOTH Jews and Arabs lived on the land peacefully. In fact, throughout WWI and WWII the Jews who had lived in the Holy Land (while the natives who were the ancestors of today's Palestinians lived there),the Jews were NOT persecuted. During the nearly 2000 year rule of the Holy Land by the Islamists and by the Byzantines and Ottomans the Jews were not persecuted. They actually lived in peace, and it has been called the "golden age" of relations between the two groups.

If they were to give BOTH sides equal rights and representation in the state of Israel (same schools, same infrastructure, no segregation, etc..) you would see peace. But you have one people who feel that they are oppressed doing what oppressed people do. They are fighting back. But they are the underdog. So the retaliation is 10 times worse. And less you think that I am a sympathizer with the Arabs, my family is Jewish on both sides. This is not about ethnicity or religion, or nationalism. This is about right and wrong.

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I don't see any Bible believing SDAs that condone this, but I see many who believe that Israel and all Jews have a right to defend themselves from continued bombings. Its also interesting that as Hamas and hezbollah continue to attack Israel, no speaks up, but as soon as Israel defends itself everyone has a problem. And as far as a secular state, what does that matter!! I guess that makes it OK for other countries to attack them and they should just turn the other cheek????? And not sure where we get the idea that religious Jews are against the state of Israel. Because all the religious Jews I know and read about most definitely are and stand up for Israel!!!!!

phkrause

By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1}
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Oh and one more thing. Where are all the Arab states when it comes to taking in there so called Palestinians brothers???? Nowhere to be found, that's where. And another thing who helps them with medical aid???? Israel does, not there so-called arab brothers, who actually don't care one hoot about what happens to the Palestinians, just as long as Israel is taken out of this world and are no longer heard of!!!!!

phkrause

By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1}
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PKraus,

The reason I mention Israel being a secular state is because people seem to think that the reason Israel has a right to kick out the people who were living there and take their land and their homes is because God mandated it. However, this mandate was for when Israel was being led by God and it was a Theocracy. The state of Israel that exists today is NOT the same as when Joshua entered the promised land. So let's not make this a right due to religion! I see many Christians defending Israel based on what God did 4000 years ago, not on what is happening today. As for Orthodox Jews, many are in fact against the creation of a state of Israel. I am posting two videos that show this. Both videos are made by religious/orthodox Jews. And again, I a Jewish on both sides of my family. While everyone converted to Christianity, we are still sephardic Jews. So don't think that I am "bashing" the Jews or that I have anything against Jews! :)

Please take the time to watch the videos! :)

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IapWP8hq9Mc

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y58njT2oXfE

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Paula, I'm not "woefully misinformed"...

I merely presented what an Israeli citizen wrote regarding the history of his country.

Thanks for your opinion.

Pam     coffeecomputer.GIF   

Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup.

If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony.

Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?

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PKraus,

The reason I mention Israel being a secular state is because people seem to think that the reason Israel has a right to kick out the people who were living there and take their land and their homes is because God mandated it. However, this mandate was for when Israel was being led by God and it was a Theocracy. The state of Israel that exists today is NOT the same as when Joshua entered the promised land. So let's not make this a right due to religion! I see many Christians defending Israel based on what God did 4000 years ago, not on what is happening today. As for Orthodox Jews, many are in fact against the creation of a state of Israel. I am posting two videos that show this. Both videos are made by religious/orthodox Jews. And again, I a Jewish on both sides of my family. While everyone converted to Christianity, we are still sephardic Jews. So don't think that I am "bashing" the Jews or that I have anything against Jews! :)

Please take the time to watch the videos! :)

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IapWP8hq9Mc

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y58njT2oXfE

I understand that Paula. As SDAs we know, or we should know, that the special place that Israel had, no longer exists. Most Christians seem to think that the temple will be rebuilt, so they keep on helping Israel to that degree. I'm just saying that they have a right to defend themselves when attacked, and they are being attacked from all sides. Not just militarily by there enemies, but from the media everywhere! Be it Europe or the USA.

phkrause

By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1}
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Killing 300 children undermines any pretense of self defense. Israel it sowing the seeds of its own demise. Do you really think the fathers, uncles and brothers of these children will stop fighting. Their war would have just begun. The shockwave of this slaughter are incalculable.

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence.

Einstein

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I don't see Israel being attacked in terms of the media. They pretty much own all the media conglomorates in the US as well as in other countries. Most people are afraid to say anything against the actions of Israeli's for fear of being seen as anti semitic. I think one of the best (and humorous) explanations of the disparity between the two sides is this video by the (JEWISH) Jon Stewart. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqKu5rSTyP8

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Saw a news clip today of an interview with some Gazans who, even though warned to leave their home by Israel, refused to evacuate. They said if they were going to die, they wanted to die in their home.

Quote:
Killing 300 children undermines any pretense of self defense.

And so, these noble terrorists of Hamas have located weapons factories and caches and tunnels and bunkers in residential areas where the body count of women and children will rise rapidly when the weapons are targeted and destroyed. Hamas members, of course, will scream and wail and throw rocks in violent demonstrations against Israel, but they have failed in their responsibilities to keep the defenseless safe, because human life is nothing to them. Even if the people of Israel were driven into the sea, there would still be bloodshed and death in the land, as we can see in the fight-to-the-death between rival Islamic sects in the region.

Do we have a brave soul here who will enter Gaza or Syria or Iraq or Iran carrying a Bible and wearing a cross necklace who can talk to the militants about the love of Jesus, and about peace? We can post your name here in the obituary section if you somehow don't return alive. Perhaps a video will be posted online of your decapitation so your friends and family can see your last moments alive.

While Islam is extremely intolerant of diversity, Israel accepts it, and embraces it. Diversity prevents us from having tunnel vision and having nations ruled by tunnel visionaries. Although moral purity is something the entire world needs, and someday will achieve, Islam's thirst for blood is a result of man's inability to see the big picture, and thus, men of Islam fall into the long, dark, tunnel, the tunnel of the dark ages, the tunnel of hate, the tunnel of death.

The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
 

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