Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted August 8, 2014 Members Share Posted August 8, 2014 in another thread, it is asked whether or not one should accept a job where work may be required on the Sabbath... I don't want to derail that thread, so am starting this one... I have a question to pose regarding "work on the Sabbath": When God gave the Ten Commandments, when He came to the 4th, why did He not just write, "Do not work on the Sabbath" ? Why all the extra verbiage if the most important thing about the commandment was not to work? Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 My understanding, gained through listening to OT scholars, is that our definition of work is not the same as it was then. The idea was that the working was for personal gain, to increase wealth , not about sustaining life. We Sda's have always given ourselves an out by saying helping others and being paid for is okay because we aren't trying to gain wealth and helping others is okay. I believe the importance of the 4th, was to remember God and what he had done for the people, not about 'work'. If He had wanted it to be a 'burden', then we are going down the works path. Not an opinion that will be very popular and most likely get slammed for it...so be it! I don't know the answer, so my cop out is each for themself. However, the 4th has been used as a burden by the church for a long time, as a heroic thing not to 'work' on the sabbath,even if it meant no job. I have a problem with that and do not believe that is what God intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted August 8, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2014 I believe the importance of the 4th, was to remember God and what he had done for the people, not about 'work'. If He had wanted it to be a 'burden', then we are going down the works path. that's what I'm thinking, too... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 By "verbiage" do you mean .... Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates. The issue of work seems to be rather clear on whom it applies. Those who are within thy gates. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted August 8, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2014 By "verbiage" do you mean ....Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates. I was thinking more of the rest of the commandment: "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." But even with the part about work, why didn't God just say, "Thou shalt not work on the Sabbath"? Except for possibly the 2nd commandment, none of the others have extra "explanation" to define what God meant. If "do not work" is the primary issue of the 4th commandment, then it seems to me God would have said it in very succinct words, and not added the extra.. Does "keeping the Sabbath holy" only refer to *no work* ?? I think many people have decided it means just that... but I don't think that's the point of the commandment at all... because, didn't Jesus say that it's lawful to do good on the Sabbath? Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I think that the Sabbath, along with the other commandments, points us to the rules of life for the next life. There, human laborers will have a six-day work week, although the livestock must be fed daily unless it's done automatically. Technicians maintaining the city/cities and Temple will have different days of rest. Observing the Sabbath in the Kingdom as the LORD commands is an act of obedience, whereas working a non-essential job on the Sabbath would be an act of rebellion. Although it has its place in this life, I think the Sabbath is specifically for teaching us about the next life, even though we can benefit somewhat from observing it here, mainly by demonstrating our loyalty and obedience. Sabbath's main purpose is for rest from daily work, and, to spend some time enjoying the handiwork of our Creator and recalling his goodness towards us. Once the Kingdom is explained to us by those who come from the stars, we will see things more clearly, unlike the murky mists we must grope around in as we blunder through this life. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Correct me if I'm wrong; but don't the Hebrew words used for "keep holy" in Exosus 8:20 meen "keep seperate"? Doesn't the word used for "work" mean the normal routine kept on the other 6 days? In days past at a church I used to attend, keeping Sabbath also meant no TV, no eating out, eating only previously prepared food, no yard work, no reading of secular books, no horse riding, (making your horse work), no exercise other than a SHORT hike or SHORT bike ride, and a mandatory nap. I have since come to believe that Sabbath should be a special day, celebrating life and celebrating your God. It has also become a prophecy in my life about what living in the Kingdom will be like. Sabbath has gone from being the most boring day of the week to our favorite day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 JoeMo. I can see benefits in both your way and mine. But to know the mind of God on this issue .... I suspect might be impossible. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I like to look at jesus' example in the practicality of keeping the Sabbath. He still did the good that He came here to do; and took care of practical matters - like eating. I've wondered how pastors handle not working on the Sabbath. It seems like that would be their busiest day. I've also wondered how having an ad-hoc church business meeting before worship to discuss the status of the church budget and encouraging people to give more isn't breaking the Sabbath. Or how exchanging a "lunch ticket" purchased on Friday at camp meeting, and exchanging it for lunch on Sabbath is any different than exchanging a $5 bill or using a charge card for lunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I like to look at jesus' example in the practicality of keeping the Sabbath. He still did the good that He came here to do; and took care of practical matters - like eating. I've wondered how pastors handle not working on the Sabbath. It seems like that would be their busiest day. I've also wondered how having an ad-hoc church business meeting before worship to discuss the status of the church budget and encouraging people to give more isn't breaking the Sabbath. Or how exchanging a "lunch ticket" purchased on Friday at camp meeting, and exchanging it for lunch on Sabbath is any different than exchanging a $5 bill or using a charge card for lunch. Amen to that, brother. Yes, the best way to keep the Sabbath holy is to follow the example of our Shepherd Who said "Follow Me". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted August 8, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2014 I've never known of a church business meeting to be held during Sabbath hours, but I suppose it could happen... Quote: Or how exchanging a "lunch ticket" purchased on Friday at camp meeting, and exchanging it for lunch on Sabbath is any different than exchanging a $5 bill or using a charge card for lunch. yeah, I've thought that was a bit weird, too.. the exchange of paper tickets for goods (meals) maybe is more palatable to some than exchange of paper money (or CC) for meals... easier to swallow the fact that folks had to work to provide the meal, probably doing the cooking during the Sabbath morning worship service if one isn't using money... It would be an interesting experiment to use Monopoly money instead of "tickets" to pay for the Sabbath meals... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Quote: I've never known of a church business meeting to be held during Sabbath hours It's not a scheduled meeting; it's the announcements before the opening song. "...The offerings for church budget are $1,500 behind budget; so reach deep into your wallets this week or well have to cancel Pathfinder camporee and the organ will remain broken. Please open your hymnals the Hymn 148 as we begin our worship service..." Quote: It would be an interesting experiment to use Monopoly money instead of "tickets" to pay for the Sabbath meals... That would be a hoot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted August 9, 2014 Administrators Share Posted August 9, 2014 All work and no play makes Johnny a dull boy. God didn't want his people to be dull. It really is about taking a break. The word Sabbath means quite literally "stop". Stop what you are doing. Pause. Take a breather. Rest. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 People are free to observe Sabbath as they see fit and as God directs them personally. For me .... everything I do on Sabbath .... my goal is for it to bring me closer to God. I ask the question .... Does this help me get closer to God? If the answer is no ... I have to question why I am doing it on God's Holy Day. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Quote: For me .... everything I do on Sabbath .... my goal is for it to bring me closer to God. I Thought that was the goal of everyday...only Saturday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 My thoughts are that common sense applies, My personal conviction is that I don't wish to work for wages on the Sabbath, and I think the ideal is to refrain from commerce - buying and selling on the Sabbath. That said though, if I were accepted into the police academy and became a police officer and was rostered on for Sabbath I think that would be a just requirement of Gods people to work. The same as if I were a doctor and surgeries or accident and emergency was scheduled for Saturday. I think the various jewish rules about not turning lights on and so forth do not apply and applying those thing brings about legalism and takes away from the purpose of the Sabbath. On the other hand, I do wonder what members of the early church would say if they saw the current format of churches today on the Sabbath - meet for Bible study, hold a one hour service and go back to your own homes for lunch. I think they might be a little surprised at what Sabbath meetings had been reduced to. I think there is a case for sabbath keeping churches to be open for the whole of sabbath starting friday night and working through to saturday evening with people being able to come and go and fellowship with one another as they please. I perhaps see some irony in church people criticizing others for watching football on the Sabbath or going to a restaurant or so forth, when the doors of their own churches remain firmly locked at the same time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted August 10, 2014 Administrators Share Posted August 10, 2014 Good thoughts, everyone! I am blessed all around All day access to church... And encouragement on how to benefit from that access. There's thinking outside the box! Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted August 10, 2014 Moderators Share Posted August 10, 2014 Quote: I've never known of a church business meeting to be held during Sabbath hours, but I suppose it could happen... It has happened. In my opinion, it has been (perhaps not always) a violation of the Sabbath. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Sabbath, I believe, is a time for us to remember who we are and where we came from. We may not always have a planet to call our own until it is restored and once again inhabited, only this time by obedient servants of the LORD. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 JoeMo. I can see benefits in both your way and mine. But to know the mind of God on this issue .... I suspect might be impossible. Why do you think knowing the mind of God on this is impossible? Didn't Jesus promise us that the Holy Spirit would lead us into "all truth"? Is this an exception to that promise, or did Jesus not really mean "all truth" and meant only "some truth" instead? Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I think there are SDAs who use the guise of "helping others" to get out of going to church and earn their daily bread on Sabbath. But, isn't truly "helping others" really worshiping God in its truest sense? How better can we show who God is than to help others? Didn't Jesus make it a practice to help others on the Sabbath, and in so doing show exactly who God is in contrast to the rules of Jewish religion of His day? Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Quote: Is this an exception to that promise, or did Jesus not really mean "all truth" and meant only "some truth" instead? Jesus - though the Holy Spirit, reveals all truth to us. The truth is we are supposed to observe/keep/honor the Sabbath. How we apply that to out daily lives does not have to be uniform across all cultures, life-styles, and countries. Sabbath keeping means something different to Jesus than it meant to the Pharisees. Sabbath keeping means something different to people in industrialized countries than it does to people in 3rd world countries. It means something different to an SDA pastor than it means to a nominal lay person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Quote: Is this an exception to that promise, or did Jesus not really mean "all truth" and meant only "some truth" instead? Jesus - though the Holy Spirit, reveals all truth to us. The truth is we are supposed to observe/keep/honor the Sabbath. How we apply that to out daily lives does not have to be uniform across all cultures, life-styles, and countries. Sabbath keeping means something different to Jesus than it meant to the Pharisees. Sabbath keeping means something different to people in industrialized countries than it does to people in 3rd world countries. It means something different to an SDA pastor than it means to a nominal lay person. How do you come up with that idea? I'm not putting you down, but I find the idea behind it flawed. Doesn't worshiping God spring from the heart? A heart submitted fully to God means the same thing in all cultures. The person who has such a heart will live by exactly the same principles no matter what kind of culture he lives in. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Quote: Is this an exception to that promise, or did Jesus not really mean "all truth" and meant only "some truth" instead? Jesus - though the Holy Spirit, reveals all truth to us. The truth is we are supposed to observe/keep/honor the Sabbath. How we apply that to out daily lives does not have to be uniform across all cultures, life-styles, and countries. Sabbath keeping means something different to Jesus than it meant to the Pharisees. Sabbath keeping means something different to people in industrialized countries than it does to people in 3rd world countries. It means something different to an SDA pastor than it means to a nominal lay person. Exactly JoeMo. There are many 'truths' that God has chosen not to reveal to us. To believe that God will reveal every aspect of Christianity to us is flawed in my opinion. If it were true either there is totally different truth for one person compared to another OR: There is only one or possibly none .... who are lead by the Spirit --- for very few Christians or even SDAs see eye to eye. You would have to ask yourself "Where IS the Spirit". Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Quote: very few Christians or even SDAs see eye to eye Well said, Woody. You have been a pastor. I'm sure that Sabbath was one of your busiest days of the week - especially when you had more than one congregation to oversee. I'd bet if any two SDA's talked long enough, they would find something to disagree over. Thats not a problem. There is a difference between unity and uniformity. We are united in that we all seek the joy of communion with God on Sabbath - that's unity. We all have different ways of seeking that communion - for some it's quiet reading and soft music. For others it is bike riding, running, or hiking. Yet others might enjoy a long nap. For some it may be sitting around in a group debating what is and isn't allowed on Sabbath. If we all had to agree on a uniform recipe for every little thing a Christian can or can't do, it would be - well - boring. God didn't create us to be bored; He created us to live life abundantly. It just might be that my abundance is different than other people's abundance. Someone here has a great tag line - something like "What is lacking when we all sing the same note? Harmony". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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