Poll - Do you support the ordination of Women into SDA Ministry?

[Sojourner]

Vote away! 

[Johann]

Are there only 12 members who have an opinion?

[Johann]

And by now there are 14,

[Leticia]

I do not believe in the ordination of women, it's all self,Man is the head not the woman,we should not follow the world,the world should follow us. Blessings

[Kevin H]

I do not believe in the ordination of women, it's all self,Man is the head not the woman,we should not follow the world,the world should follow us. Blessings

 

First, we are Wesleyan, headship theology is based on Calvinism. Second, we live in the time of the Investigative Judgment. Part of this is that we are living in a time in history when we are able to learn more about the Bible then ever before, and sadly these discoveries indicate that the Bible supports the ordination of women. That the anti-ordination view was started by Jesus Ben Sirach 200 years before Jesus. That in the time of Jesus it was a highly debated issue. Jesus gave his view as to what side he supported. However the anti-ordination view eventually won out in Judaism. People see which side won and are not familiar that it was a debated issue, and they read the view that eventually won as the only view that existed and read it back into the Bible.

I'm sorry but we need to be followers of Jesus Christ, but too many have instead decided to follow Jesus Ben Sirach.

 

[pierrepaul]

I don't really support the idea of a professional clerical class; so I guess I oppose women's ordination (and men's ordination as well).

[LynnDel]

 

Jesus gave his view as to what side he supported.

 

Kevin, please elucidate. Thanks!

 

LynnDel

[Woody]

I am trying hard to understand this.

Either SDA women are not suppose to have any ministry ...

or

SDA women are suppose to have a ministry but we are not suppose to acknowledge it through an ordination service.

or

They can have a ministry and we can acknowledge it.

 

Which is it?

[Nafanua]

If Galatians 3:28 has any merit, it would seem that discrimination based on gender isn't ok.  When it comes down to it, being ordained is an advanced level of a particular profession, namely the ministry.  It could be construed that ordination is similar to an advanced degree with which might come more exacting roles and responsibilities in the workplace.  I would posit, then, that as a professional in the ministry, what difference does a person's internal plumbing have to do with their ability to carry out those roles and responsibilities?

 

This hullabaloo on the matter has been going on since the late 60s, maybe earlier, but that's what I recall.  Ordination doesn't make the man.  After ordination he isn't suddenly more skilled or a better administrator.  Ordination is merely a level of credentials.  Any woman so blessed with the skills and a passion for the ministry should be able to progress in a professional path serving their fellow "man" just like any male counterpart, including being ordained.  Why limit advancement in the field based on "plumbing?"  Are the skills and abilities necessary for quality ministry only exhibited by the population with XY chromosomes?

 

Saying women can't be ordained is as close minded and foolish as saying priests can't marry.

 

Needless to say I voted yes !

[JoeMo]

Woody,

 

"They can have a ministry and we can acknowledge it."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's my vote.

[phkrause]

JOHNANN

 

 there  are  not 33  votes

 

dgrimm60

There sure are 33 votes!!

[Johann]

Only the votes at the GC session in 5 months count.

[Woody]

Johann - it really counts little. The vote is strictly procedural and has little meaning beyond that.
The vote will provide the power of decision to be in the lap of the Division.

Currently the power resides in the Unions as to whom they can ordain.

My prediction is that either way .... women will be ordained by those unions that desire it.
Either the Divisions will give them authority or the unions will keep that authority.

[Woody]

 

Woody,

 

"They can have a ministry and we can acknowledge it."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's my vote.

 

Yes. We should acknowledge it. Our prophet lead the way. Those who deny WO deny EGW:

"From 1871 until her death in 1915, Ellen White was issued ministerial credentials. From 1871 to 1887 she was credentialed by the Michigan Conference, and from 1884 until her death, she was credentialed as a General Conference Minister. On one of the credentials (1885), the word "ordained" is struck through. (In the 1888 Yearbook she was also listed among the California Ministers.) Throughout the years, her name was listed along with ordained ministers rather than licentiates"

[wheelcat]

Sola Scriptura... That means I have NO OPINION but that of the Word of God.. I Timothy, Chapter 3.   If the GC approved WO, then we are apostate.  There is no option other than what the Bible teaches. I certainly do not qualify as a Pastor, but there is MORE THAN enough work for me to do, that is Biblically approved.  We are not the Pope  to change times and laws (Dan 7:25) 

[Johann]

It depend on how we read. I find that 1 Tim. 3 gives instructions on how to ordain women. This might not be clear in the KJV, but now we know that the king gave the tranlators orders not to use any wording that would disagree with the doctrines of the Church of England which were imilar to Roman Catholic - epecially when it comes to the doctrines of the priesthood. This is a solid warning to those who want to vote againt the ordination of women.

[Kevin H]

Wheelcat; there is evidence in the Bible of women's ordination. There have been many posts about it in several threads here and also books recommended where you can study for your own.

[Gail]

What exactly would be the worst that would happen if women were ordained? That they would preach? That they would run the church business and head up board meetings? That they would have a salary comparable to a man's?

Self? Is that to say that there are no men that consider a pastoral vocation that have self motivating their decision, that are ambitious?

[LifeHiscost]

It depend on how we read. I find that 1 Tim. 3 gives instructions on how to ordain women.

   I read the whole chapter of 1 Timothy 3 from the NLV and found nothing that spoke of ordination gender specific except the personal nouns referring to the male gender.

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Johann]

   I read the whole chapter of 1 Timothy 3 from the NLV and found nothing that spoke of ordination gender specific except the personal nouns referring to the male gender.

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

 

Here is another rendering:

 

1 Timothy 3:11Common English Bible (CEB)

¹¹ In the same way, women who are servants^[a] in the church should be dignified and not gossip. They should be sober and faithful in everything they do.

 

Now compare this with

 

1 Timothy 3:11King James Version (KJV)

¹¹ Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

 

Notice that in the KJV you have these two words added shown in italics, which are not in the original. The translators added these words to comply with the King's order that the translation must be in accordance with the doctrines of the Church of England. When they have added their to women, they have to change the word to wives.

 

The CEB is closer to the original.which shows that the whole chapter deals both with male and female church servants - or ministers.

 

Even James White understood that when you find the word man or men in the Bible it could just as well mean woman or women. Why should we not understand the Bible the way our pioneers did?

 

To me 1 Tim. 3:11 when rendered right is the key to understand the whole chapter. The same principles apply to both male and female servants in the church.

 

Why not folllow the warning given in

 

Revelation 22:19 King James Version (KJV)

¹⁹ And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[Johann]

“Make no mistake in neglecting to correct the error of giving ministers less than they should receive. . . . The tithe should go to those who labor in word and doctrine, be they men or women.” (Ellen White, Manuscript Releases, 1:263).

[Johann]

 

Here is another rendering:

 

1 Timothy 3:11Common English Bible (CEB)

¹¹ In the same way, women who are servants^[a] in the church should be dignified and not gossip. They should be sober and faithful in everything they do.

 

Now compare this with

 

1 Timothy 3:11King James Version (KJV)

¹¹ Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

 

Notice that in the KJV you have these two words added shown in italics, which are not in the original. The translators added these words to comply with the King's order that the translation must be in accordance with the doctrines of the Church of England. When they have added their to women, they have to change the word to wives.

 

The CEB is closer to the original.which shows that the whole chapter deals both with male and female church servants - or ministers.

 

Even James White understood that when you find the word man or men in the Bible it could just as well mean woman or women. Why should we not understand the Bible the way our pioneers did?

 

To me 1 Tim. 3:11 when rendered right is the key to understand the whole chapter. The same principles apply to both male and female servants in the church.

 

Why not folllow the warning given in

 

Revelation 22:19 King James Version (KJV)

¹⁹ And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

 

I could add to this that these are the text we traditionally read when ordaining church officers, so it has become a tradition in the Seventh-day Adventist church to use these verses from 1 Tim 3 referring to ordination.

[LifeHiscost]

I could add to this that these are the text we traditionally read when ordaining church officers, so it has become a tradition in the Seventh-day Adventist church to use these verses from 1 Tim 3 referring to ordination.

I would suggest that when man or woman is reasoned to be the same irregardless the gender applied in the written Word, it could be easily seen why some individuals in the Christian religion refer to God the Father as She. How would we then construe this specific instruction when that latitude is practiced?

 

14So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,....15And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring^a and hers; he will crush^b your head, and you will strike his heel.” Genesis 3

 

16To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”...Genesis 3

 

17To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from itmall the days of your life....Genesis 3

 

27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them....Genesis 1

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Johann]

I would suggest that when man or woman is reasoned to be the same irregardless the gender applied in the written Word, it could be easily seen why some individuals in the Christian religion refer to God the Father as She. How would we then construe this specific instruction when that latitude is practiced?

 

27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them....Genesis 1

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

A good question. How would you respond to it? Do you think James White had the wrong concept? Is it only the man who was created in God's image?

[whbae]

In Christ, there are no gentiles, male or female!