Moderators Bravus Posted October 13, 2014 Moderators Share Posted October 13, 2014 If voter ID *doesn't* help Republicans politically, why are they putting resources into fighting for it everywhere? We might like to think it's an altruistic attempt to improve the functioning of democracy, but these are pretty hardheaded people (on all sides of politics). They do what they think will help them win elections. The issue also comes back to one Lazarus raised much earlier: if, as the OP tries to intimate, the Republican party is much better for African-American voters, why do they overwhelmingly not vote for it? (On the other hand, it's also terrible for poor whites, and they *do* vote for it, so there are holes in that argument.) I think the bottom line in this broader debate is that both parties have moved a long way. For a whole variety of reasons, the Republicans have moved, in recent decades and years, to being a party that is dismissive and contemptuous of anyone who is not a white male of a certain age, ideally an oligarch of some sort. Black males of a certain age who are very wealthy are sometimes admitted to the club, but I don't see one being the Presidential nominee anytime in the next decade. Do you? Given these moves - and the Democrats parallel move away from past racist strategies - information from history is of very little use or relevance in considering the parties today and who to vote for. Which party is going to extend the franchise as broadly as possible and seek to protect the poor and vulnerable in society? Which party aligns with your values? (of the parties available to vote for now: the Republican party of Lincoln is not on the ballot) phkrause 1 Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 http://washingtonexaminer.com/24-things-that-require-a-photo-id/article/2534254 Interesting that voting shouldn't require a photo ID but if I want to adopt a pet from a shelter I need one. I think that CVS has rescinded the need for a photo ID for nail polish but the intent was there for something that important. It is doubtful that LBJ would have ended up president if he had not stolen his senate election.And let's not forget the much revered JFK and the stolen votes.Daley was in good form for that election. Why shouldn't photo ID be required. If needed for hand outs they will be obtained. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted October 14, 2014 Moderators Share Posted October 14, 2014 http://www.salon.com/2014/10/13/gop_voter_id_law_gets_crushed_why_judge_richard_posners_ruling_is_so_amazing/ Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted October 14, 2014 Moderators Share Posted October 14, 2014 (if you prefer, don't even read the article on Salon: I know some are allergic. Just click on the link in that story to the PDF of Reagan-appointed conservative judge Richard Posner's ruling, and read the ruling) Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (if you prefer, don't even read the article on Salon: I know some are allergic. Just click on the link in that story to the PDF of Reagan-appointed conservative judge Richard Posner's ruling, and read the ruling) So the above says now that a Reagan appointed judge rules that should convince all that are pro photo ID? You still haven't explained why disenfranchisement isn't an issue when the senior citizens sign up for SS,medicare etc? They need those pesky documents. We don't hear disenfranchisement from those black or white or etc signing up for their monthly handouts. Same goes for places like our local food shelf if you need to feed your family. Heaven forbid that a poor family use the library.They need a photo ID. To rescue a shelter dog you need photo ID. That is far more important than proving the legitimate right to vote and to vote only once and that requires you be alive Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 14, 2014 Administrators Share Posted October 14, 2014 The difference is with many of your examples is that they are most often more flexible in what type of photo ID is acceptable. The objective is to confirm a match between a name and a face. And the rub comes in what is required to obtain the photo ID itself. If it were simply a matter of the voter polling station needing to match the name on the registered voter list with the person in front of them, any photo ID, drivers license, student ID, etc. would do that. But the insistence that they must have a single purpose Voter photo ID, even if already a registered voter makes it more difficult. It comes down to the narrow proof of citizenship some of these laws require to be able to get the voter ID. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The difference is with many of your examples is that they are most often more flexible in what type of photo ID is acceptable. The objective is to confirm a match between a name and a face. And the rub comes in what is required to obtain the photo ID itself. If it were simply a matter of the voter polling station needing to match the name on the registered voter list with the person in front of them, any photo ID, drivers license, student ID, etc. would do that. But the insistence that they must have a single purpose Voter photo ID, even if already a registered voter makes it more difficult. It comes down to the narrow proof of citizenship some of these laws require to be able to get the voter ID. Are you referring to the Election Identification Certificate? That would not be issued to those with valid drivers license or other accepted forms such as passport etc. If you are not a citizen,guess what,you should not vote. All of the "privileged ones" are required for numerous things to provide proof of identity. All those receiving government assistance are required to do so. All over 62 on SS have to jump thru the same hoops. If,like my mother you don't have any birth certificate,there are steps you gave to take to obtain one as she did. If voting is as important to me as proving my identity to adopt a puppy or obtain a library card I will do it to vote. LifeHiscost 1 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 14, 2014 Administrators Share Posted October 14, 2014 The lack of a birth record is one of the several sticking points. And while there are ways, they are not usually easy or clear to the average person. They prove to be an obstacle to too many. And consider the reality of those examples of those senior citizens that are already registered to vote, having voted in every election since Eisenhower, being turned away from the voting booth for lack of a voter photo ID. They are given an unrealistic time frame to cure the "problem" and difficult obstacles to get all the necessary documentation, etc. But it is not the only point. But back to an earlier point. There is something fundamentally wrong with our system when it is without question easier to get a gun than it is to register to vote. And even more so in those states that are determined to making voting more difficult, while with equal determination seeking to make getting weapons easier. Can you explain the sense of that? Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The lack of a birth record is one of the several sticking points. And while there are ways, they are not usually easy or clear to the average person. They prove to be an obstacle to too many. And consider the reality of those examples of those senior citizens that are already registered to vote, having voted in every election since Eisenhower, being turned away from the voting booth for lack of a voter photo ID. They are given an unrealistic time frame to cure the "problem" and difficult obstacles to get all the necessary documentation, etc. But it is not the only point. But back to an earlier point. There is something fundamentally wrong with our system when it is without question easier to get a gun than it is to register to vote. And even more so in those states that are determined to making voting more difficult, while with equal determination seeking to make getting weapons easier. Can you explain the sense of that? Doesn't have anything to do with buying a gun. On the flip side I can vote illegally,sometimes more than once easier than I can obtain a puppy from a shelter. So what? Nothing to do with voting Obtaining an amended birth certificate is not that hard and a quick call makes it very clear as it did for my mother and the offer to help guide her thru it. Senior citizens need proof of identity to obtain SS and medicare. Registering to vote has been turned in to an almost insurmountable problem and it is not. Or at least to obtain handouts,free medical care etc it is obtainable. I had to buy license tabs this morning. Those nasty bigoted people wanted two forms of identification.One had to be photo ID.I had the renewal notice from the DMV,debit card and still needed by photo ID. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted October 14, 2014 Moderators Share Posted October 14, 2014 Support among white Americans for voter ID laws increases when that question is asked alongside of a photo of African Americans voting, according to a new study. The new University of Delaware study found that 67 percent of white Americans supported voter ID laws after the question was posed to them with text only or accompanied by a photo of white people voting. But that number increased to 73 percent when the same question is asked with an accompanying photo of African-Americans voting. "Our findings suggest that public opinion about voter ID laws can be racialized by simply showing images of African American people," David C. Wilson, who helped supervise the study, said. "The resulting increase in support for the laws happens independently of —even after controlling for— political ideology and negative attitudes about African Americans." http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/study-voter-id-whites-african-americans-photo-support Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Support among white Americans for voter ID laws increases when that question is asked alongside of a photo of African Americans voting, according to a new study. The new University of Delaware study found that 67 percent of white Americans supported voter ID laws after the question was posed to them with text only or accompanied by a photo of white people voting. But that number increased to 73 percent when the same question is asked with an accompanying photo of African-Americans voting. "Our findings suggest that public opinion about voter ID laws can be racialized by simply showing images of African American people," David C. Wilson, who helped supervise the study, said. "The resulting increase in support for the laws happens independently of —even after controlling for— political ideology and negative attitudes about African Americans." http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/study-voter-id-whites-african-americans-photo-support Interesting. So why is it that African Americans object to the same photo ID that would be required for all. 67% are in favor and that increases depending on a photo of african americans by a total of 6. Anything to prove racism. This affects all who vote,not just African Americans. If the guy ahead of me is black,white or any skin color you can name and objects to showing proof of his right in this country to vote,tough,he shouldn't be allowed to vote. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 The lack of a birth record is one of the several sticking points. And while there are ways, they are not usually easy or clear to the average person. They prove to be an obstacle to too many. And consider the reality of those examples of those senior citizens that are already registered to vote, having voted in every election since Eisenhower, being turned away from the voting booth for lack of a voter photo ID. They are given an unrealistic time frame to cure the "problem" and difficult obstacles to get all the necessary documentation, etc. But it is not the only point. But back to an earlier point. There is something fundamentally wrong with our system when it is without question easier to get a gun than it is to register to vote. And even more so in those states that are determined to making voting more difficult, while with equal determination seeking to make getting weapons easier. Can you explain the sense of that? Really? It's easier to register to buy a gun that register to vote? Where? Where do you not have to provide an accepted form of identification to buy a gun? In the state I live in all you have to do is show up at the DMV and they will register you to vote. That's all that is required. To buy a gun is a lot harder. I know I've gone through the process. Tell me, Tom, where do you have to undergo a background check to register to vote? Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted October 16, 2014 Moderators Share Posted October 16, 2014 To register to vote, you have to visit one of a very limited number of places. Or, in some states the registration to vote can be done in other places under very limited circumstances. To purchase a gun, you have to visit a licensed dealer. That person will be able to process the registration on site, on the spot, generally. I am often in a general department store where I can purchase a gun. In actual fact, it is much easier for some people to purchase a gun than it is to register to vote. NOTE: I recognize that there are other circumstances for a private sale. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 To register to vote, you have to visit one of a very limited number of places. Or, in some states t registration to vote can be done in other places under very limited circumstances. In actual fact, it is much easier for some people to purchase a gun than it is to register to vote. NOTE: I recognize that there are other circumstances for a private sale. You can register to vote online. You need identification. You can register to vote by mail or on election day as we did when we moved to our present home. It does take the interest in voting to obtain your ID. If you want food stamps welfare,SS food shelf people don't seem to object. To use the food shelf here you need photo ID,and two utility bills or ? to assure them of residency in a town. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcah Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 "Vote early, vote often. No ID required." - DNC Quote -Jason Youtube.com/narcah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted October 18, 2014 Moderators Share Posted October 18, 2014 Are you telling us that the Democratic National Committee is telling people to vote multiple times in the same election, which would be illegal? Please document, if so. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Several here have determined those that believe a photo ID should be required for voting is racist and trying to disenfranchise seniors,poor,minorities. Can that be documented. Please if someone can show me where that has been stated or is that a accusation without documentation? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted October 21, 2014 Moderators Share Posted October 21, 2014 http://www.salon.com/2014/10/20/ruth_bader_ginsburg_destroys_gops_lie_why_voter_id_is_the_rights_new_poll_tax/ Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted October 21, 2014 Moderators Share Posted October 21, 2014 Three Supreme Court justices believe so... Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Three Supreme Court justices believe so... That makes it gospel. The majority of those that claim they would be disenfranchised would already be in a position to obtain photo ID. Because of fraud involved photo iD is required to obtain food to feed your family.That is of more immediate concern than voting. Each town requires it because there were many going from town to town. In addition you need a photo ID for other adults or spouse in the home along with two utility bills with address or ?? No cries of racism or being disenfranchised.Judging by the lineup waiting for the free food it is fairly well represented by the very ones that refuse or claim they cannot obtain a photo ID. When I helped an elderly neighbor thru the process of obtaining aid,it didn't really matter that she didn't drive. Tough,find someone to bring you and bring ........ Help is offered if you are lacking required documents. The homeless can obtain photo ID. Only in the area of voting is it even a question. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The very groups of people that are being listed as being disenfranchised by photo ID are the very groups that need it for many other area's of their lives. When needed for freebies or SS it is not called disenfranchisement. How does it become disenfranchised when they are required to have it for voting. In MN we have a lot of dead that come back to life on election day.Shouldn't they have to show some proof of life? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 23, 2014 Administrators Share Posted October 23, 2014 I suppose one should give serious consideration to the opinions of those smarter than oneself... But then I guess politics trumps smarts every time. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I suppose one should give serious consideration to the opinions of those smarter than oneself... But then I guess politics trumps smarts every time. You mean as sarcasm trumps smarts? You still refuse to answer why in so many aspects of their lives,those claiming to be disenfranshied or a victim of racism because of photo ID are required to show proof of identity. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 25, 2014 Administrators Share Posted October 25, 2014 You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink... Very true,sometimes the horse knows the water being offered is not what it seems Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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